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puter

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Hello, noob here. I am in Alabama where a pleasant Spring day is 98 degrees and humidity percentage. I popped my cherry with a partial extract brew in a 32-quart kettle with an economy chiller.

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Economy-Wort-Chiller.html

I picked up a Bayou Classic turkey fryer and "seasoned" it by boiling 6.5 gallons of water in it. I tried out the chiller and noticed that after 30 minutes it was still about 100 degrees. On Sunday, I brewed my second extract kit (full boil, of course) and used the same chiller. I got the same results. I just couldn't get it to cool quickly down to 80. In fact, I gave up and pitched yeast at 95.

I have two thoughts...
1) Sell my economy chiller with 25' of copper and and buy the one with 39' of copper (http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Immersion-Wort-Chiller.html), or...
2) Buy a chinchilla pre-chiller (http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/The-Chinchilla-%252d-Wort-Pre%252dchiller.html)

I'm kinda leanin' to #2. Right track? Or is there an easier way? Or am I trying too hard?

P.S. I was using the outflow of the chiller to wet/cool the sides of my pot as well as stir the wort now and then.
 
Same issue here in Biloxi. If you are looking for an economical solution to you issue (I am assuming you are doing this outdoors) get a hose from the hardware store and leave coiled and let loose just enough to go to faucet and just enough to go to your chiller. Then put the rest in 5 gallon bucket (coiled) and pour a bag of ice over it and fill with water. Here in the Dirty South, it's sort of hard to cool wort when your water comes out of the tap at 95 degrees!!!
 
What do you mean "stir the wort now and then" you shouldn't be touching the wort with anything that hasn't been sanitized while cooling and after. A pre chiller would help a lot. It also helps to move the chiller around in the kettle. The chiller creates a "cool zone" of wort around the coils while its working. If you don't agitate, the cool zone just sits there and the chiller doesn't work as efficiently.
 
My tap water here in Atlanta is probably around the same temperature as you and it is no where near cool enough.

You REALLY NEED to get the wort a few degree colder than your fermentation target temp. For most ales I shoot for 64 (it might end up at 67 during fermentation) so I cool to at least 62. The problem is fermentation causes heat, and also the warmer you pitch the faster fermentation will kick in. So you pitching at 95 I bet fermentation was vigorous and fast, and your probably came no where near to the correct temp. Also this part of fermentation is where most of your temperature related off flavors come about.

So I have to use a pond pump in my sink full of ice. I knock it down to 100 with tap water and recirculate the ice water, in just around 20 min I went from boiling to sub 60's. I don't care if it takes 4 hours to get to my desired temp, I wont pitch till its where it needs to be. I had horrible ester filled beer until I understood how critical temperature control is and what it does for the quality and taste of the beer.
 
I agree with using a pond pump. I typically chill down to about 100f with tap water and then switch to pumping ice water through the chiller with a pond pump. I got the pond pump from home depot; not very expensive.
 
My tap water here in Atlanta is probably around the same temperature as you and it is no where near cool enough.

You REALLY NEED to get the wort a few degree colder than your fermentation target temp. For most ales I shoot for 64 (it might end up at 67 during fermentation) so I cool to at least 62. The problem is fermentation causes heat, and also the warmer you pitch the faster fermentation will kick in. So you pitching at 95 I bet fermentation was vigorous and fast, and your probably came no where near to the correct temp. Also this part of fermentation is where most of your temperature related off flavors come about.

So I have to use a pond pump in my sink full of ice. I knock it down to 100 with tap water and recirculate the ice water, in just around 20 min I went from boiling to sub 60's. I don't care if it takes 4 hours to get to my desired temp, I wont pitch till its where it needs to be. I had horrible ester filled beer until I understood how critical temperature control is and what it does for the quality and taste of the beer.


Actually there are different opinions on that. I am of the school that likes to pitch higher than fermentation temps to get the growth phase off to a quick start and cool to fermentation temps over a few hours. Just like I wouldn't rehydrate yeast at 65 degrees, I don't pitch at that temp either. I mostly use dry yeast and rehydrate around 90 degrees then pitch my yeast when the wort is around 75 or so and the rehydrated yeast is below 80, then after an hour or so I add my water bath and bring the temps down to around 65. Usually by 4 hours I see first airlock activity and a couple hours after that it is really taking off. This method allows me to avoid both long lag phase and too high of fermentation temps.
 
My water for chilling is really warm as well in Louisiana. When I used an immersion chiller, I also set the boil kettle in a wheelbarrow in an ice water bath and continually moved the chiller around and stirred (yes, with a santized spoon). But once the outdoor temp gets to 95 and above, even that wouldn't get my wort to less than about 85-90 in an hour or two.
I switched to a 40 plate chiller and turned the immersion chiller into a pre-chiller running through an ice bath. I also put the plate chiller in the freezer (in a plastic bag) after sterilizing. Now, even at 100 degrees outside, I get down to 80+ in 10 minutes. After that, it goes in the fermentation chamber for a few hours to get down to 64 and then I pitch and put it back in the fermentation chamber (one of those larger dorm room fridges).
It's tough in the deep South to cool wort for sure.
 
What do you mean "stir the wort now and then" you shouldn't be touching the wort with anything that hasn't been sanitized while cooling and after. A pre chiller would help a lot. It also helps to move the chiller around in the kettle. The chiller creates a "cool zone" of wort around the coils while its working. If you don't agitate, the cool zone just sits there and the chiller doesn't work as efficiently.

Sorry, I did not fill it all in. Once I sanitized my fermenting bucket (StarSan), I poured that into a good-sized cooler. I put the top and the airlock and the siphon and the stirring paddle in there. Placed the top on the bucket. I was stirring the wort now and then with the paddle for the exact reason you state - to mix the cool zone throughout the wort.

Thanks for watching out for me! :mug:

I like the (cheap) idea of coiling the water hose in a bucket and throwing in a few bags of ice! Yes, I am doing this outside on my back patio.

I am thinking this second brew is not going to be the best, but it is a learning experience!
 
Actually there are different opinions on that. I am of the school that likes to pitch higher than fermentation temps to get the growth phase off to a quick start and cool to fermentation temps over a few hours. Just like I wouldn't rehydrate yeast at 65 degrees, I don't pitch at that temp either. I mostly use dry yeast and rehydrate around 90 degrees then pitch my yeast when the wort is around 75 or so and the rehydrated yeast is below 80, then after an hour or so I add my water bath and bring the temps down to around 65. Usually by 4 hours I see first airlock activity and a couple hours after that it is really taking off. This method allows me to avoid both long lag phase and too high of fermentation temps.

Yea Ive have done it both ways and with me, the way I described above works for me. Honestly I don't care about lag, and usually you wouldn't get it if you are using a starter like everyone should. Half the battle of brewing is just learning what works for you, and as you stated there is a big 2 sided debate about it. Kinda like the debates on using a secondary or not, or bucket or carboy. So yea... After I switched to a full cool all my ester issues and hot alcohol tastes disappeared.

Also to puter, did you just jump into brewing with some minor instruction? If so visit http://www.howtobrew.com/ and read it, then buy the new edition. I read it before I started brewing and understood about 5%, now Im a newer all grain brewer and understand about 85%. It has helped me so much.
 
Pond pump and ice water is totally the way to go. They're as cheap as any pre-chiller short of the hose method mentioned earlier, and it gets everything chilled fast.
 
Yea Ive have done it both ways and with me, the way I described above works for me. Honestly I don't care about lag, and usually you wouldn't get it if you are using a starter like everyone should. Half the battle of brewing is just learning what works for you, and as you stated there is a big 2 sided debate about it. Kinda like the debates on using a secondary or not, or bucket or carboy. So yea... After I switched to a full cool all my ester issues and hot alcohol tastes disappeared.

Also to puter, did you just jump into brewing with some minor instruction? If so visit http://www.howtobrew.com/ and read it, then buy the new edition. I read it before I started brewing and understood about 5%, now Im a newer all grain brewer and understand about 85%. It has helped me so much.

Exactly right, finding what works best for you is a lot of what homebrewing is all about. I think you will get good beer either way as long as you control temps during active fermentation. Cheers.
 
Also to puter, did you just jump into brewing with some minor instruction?

Kinda. I do have Palmer's online book bookmarked and have read the basic parts. I also have a friend that has been brewing for a year that is into AG (started with extract) that mentored me through my first brew. I have also been through the beginner's FAQs here. Thank you for the reading link!

In fact, I have been reading so much online that folks are starting to wonder about my sexuality because whenever they walk by that shirtless avatar of Yooper is on my screen. :eek:
 
Pond pump and ice water is totally the way to go. They're as cheap as any pre-chiller short of the hose method mentioned earlier, and it gets everything chilled fast.

^ +1

Also, what did you mean by:
I was using the outflow of the chiller to wet/cool the sides of my pot

The outflow of water for me (after it has gone from cold hose, to immersion chiller through the boilded wort and out) is hot as hell. Like burn yourself, be careful hot during the first 10 minutes.

But yeah, get a pump and to pull ice water for the last 30 degrees. You'll love it.
 
^ +1

The outflow of water for me (after it has gone from cold hose, to immersion chiller through the boilded wort and out) is hot as hell. Like burn yourself, be careful hot during the first 10 minutes.

But yeah, get a pump and to pull ice water for the last 30 degrees. You'll love it.

Exactly. After about 20 minutes I was down to ~120. So I would take the outflow (water and hose was lukewarm to the touch) and directing the flow around the sides of the kettle. I was trying various ways to get it to cool faster.

Now off to find a pool pump to use in the spare large cooler. I figure a few bags of ice will really help!

Thanks folks!
 
just share my method. It works ok here in Texas.

- use standard wort chiller hooked up to water hose to get down to around 100-110 F
- I put my 6.5 gal carboy in a igloo coldmax cube cooler filled with cold water.
- move the wort into the carboy and then start putting frozen water bottles in the cooler to cool it down. Just hate buying ice.
- move the cooler (it has wheels) inside to where it's going to ferment and add ice bottles as needed till everything is at equilibrium at my pitching temp.
- then just use 1 or 2 frozen bottles in the cooler to maintain my fermentation temp. I can even get down and maintain lager ferm temps if i change the frozen bottles out before and after work.
 
JRG- I like that idea and I am pretty sure I have the same cooler, may give it a try. I would be concerned though, I have seen plenty of glass shatter when hot and cold hit it at the same time.
 
JRG- I like that idea and I am pretty sure I have the same cooler, may give it a try. I would be concerned though, I have seen plenty of glass shatter when hot and cold hit it at the same time.

yeah, that why I wait to add ice till after the 100F wort is in the carboy/cooler. If you got the carboy glass really cold, then put hot wort right in, it could be a problem. I have cracked glasses taken right from the dry cycle on a dishwasher, filled them with tap water and seen them crack for sure.

I would not say this method is fast or anything, but since I am going to use the cooler for ferm temp control anyway, it makes sense to me.
 

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