Consecration kit from MoreBeer

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I racked and added the oak and bacteria on Saturday. I had planned to take a gravity reading, but unfortunately the other kind of gravity pulled my hydrometer off the counter and onto the floor. :mad: The sample tasted great, though!

Two of the three oak chunks were a little too wide to fit through the neck of the carboy, so I had to saw them in half. So there will be a bit more surface area than originally planned.

Now, time to wait (again)....
 
Nice Noch,

Well, not nice about the death of yet another hydrometer, but glad it's tasting great! Just a quick head's up: The oak flavor and aroma will come through somewhat quickly on this one, since the chunk(s) are mainly raw oak. I'd recommend using a racking cane to very, very gently stir the beer, and taste a little bit after doing so every week starting in a few weeks. Our wine brand manager is under the impression that those oak chunks will impart oak very quickly, so aging for much longer than 2-3 months would be overkill. I'll be adding my oak chunks in to a barrel soon, but will probably only leave it in the barrel for 3-4 weeks after adding those oak chunks.

Has anybody else added the oak chunks to their Consecration yet? If so, how long ago, and how's it tasting so far?

Cheers!
 
Nice Noch,

Well, not nice about the death of yet another hydrometer, but glad it's tasting great! Just a quick head's up: The oak flavor and aroma will come through somewhat quickly on this one, since the chunk(s) are mainly raw oak. I'd recommend using a racking cane to very, very gently stir the beer, and taste a little bit after doing so every week starting in a few weeks. Our wine brand manager is under the impression that those oak chunks will impart oak very quickly, so aging for much longer than 2-3 months would be overkill. I'll be adding my oak chunks in to a barrel soon, but will probably only leave it in the barrel for 3-4 weeks after adding those oak chunks.

Has anybody else added the oak chunks to their Consecration yet? If so, how long ago, and how's it tasting so far?

Cheers!

I agree with your wine manager - I'd recommend starting to taste for the oak that you want after 2 weeks. Our very first tasting (at 2 weeks) after we added oak we already had enough oak character. I don't like over-oaked beer or wine, so we kegged after just the two weeks with oak. It might be that I'm just very sensitive to the oaky character, but we definitely could taste it clearly.

And just a note for 1st time oak users... if you are using carboys, make sure that the chunks fit easily through the neck of your carboy. Cut them in half or more if you need to. They will swell up and are very hard to get out once you are done! (From experience).

A question for all - has anyone else done any comparisons vs. Consecration? We have our beer fully carbonated in kegs and ready to bottle. If you read back, you will see we did Brett L and Brett B separately. So we had a tasting and blending session to see what we liked. Turned out 55/45 Brett L/Brett B is what we will do.

We also compared to Consecration. Have to say we didn't come very close. Consecration is substantially more sour, but has less what I'll call the barnyard funk flavors and the cherry notes we get from our Brett L don't seem very apparent in Consecration.

Frankly, I think I might like our beer better than Consecration (I know, crazy!); will have to taste a few more times and see. But any theories why so much less sour? This is our first sour brew, so we don't know a lot about how what goes on effects the end product.
 
I agree with your wine manager - I'd recommend starting to taste for the oak that you want after 2 weeks. Our very first tasting (at 2 weeks) after we added oak we already had enough oak character. I don't like over-oaked beer or wine, so we kegged after just the two weeks with oak. It might be that I'm just very sensitive to the oaky character, but we definitely could taste it clearly.

And just a note for 1st time oak users... if you are using carboys, make sure that the chunks fit easily through the neck of your carboy. Cut them in half or more if you need to. They will swell up and are very hard to get out once you are done! (From experience).

A question for all - has anyone else done any comparisons vs. Consecration? We have our beer fully carbonated in kegs and ready to bottle. If you read back, you will see we did Brett L and Brett B separately. So we had a tasting and blending session to see what we liked. Turned out 55/45 Brett L/Brett B is what we will do.

We also compared to Consecration. Have to say we didn't come very close. Consecration is substantially more sour, but has less what I'll call the barnyard funk flavors and the cherry notes we get from our Brett L don't seem very apparent in Consecration.

Frankly, I think I might like our beer better than Consecration (I know, crazy!); will have to taste a few more times and see. But any theories why so much less sour? This is our first sour brew, so we don't know a lot about how what goes on effects the end product.

I would venture to guess that you didn't age it nearly long enough if it is already kegged. I plan to age my kit 12-24 months (depending on taste).
 
jmich24 said:
I would venture to guess that you didn't age it nearly long enough if it is already kegged. I plan to age my kit 12-24 months (depending on taste).

I'm sure you're right. It only had 4 months with the pedio/lacto, which I assume is the main sour difference. I was so happy with what we had at the time that I wasn't concerned with how close I got to Consecration.
 
Here's my issue, I was about to make my starter and just found out that I have no dme to make my starter. Do I roll the dice and pitch the abby yeast or wait and make a starter?

Perfect day to brew tomorrow...
 
Hate to rain on your parade, but I'd wait until I could make a starter. Know anyone you can bumb some DME off?

I knew the answer but was hoping for "Go For It!" I dont know anyone close enough tonight.

I was thinking that I I would go to the store first thing in the morning and make the starter while I brew. It should be good to go by tomorrow night.
 
First time sour, and learned some valuable lessons. Attempting to make the Concecration (aquired a kit from More Beer). Seems there is quite a bit of chatter and experience with this kit on this blog so off with the questions.

1. Any recommendations when to rack to secondary? I was under the impression I would rack after a week to secondary. My OG was only 1.072. I brewed last Friday and have a fermentation chamber where I have been able to control the environment within +/- 1 degree. I started at 72 and let it go for 4 days, I then increased to 76 degrees as recomennded by MoreBeer.com. When checking my SG today, hoping to rack to seconday it is only 1.024 (should have made a starter- but ended up pitching 2 vials of 0530 - so I knew I would be short but was still hoping for a better outcome). Anyway, any recommendations? Keep going primary? Rack and roll the dice? From what I am picking up across this blog is most are racking in the teens. Thus, considering returninging it to my fermentation chamber and letting it go another week.
 
Just brewed my AG kit of this today. Hit 1.073 on the nose, and just pitched the yeast.

I'd recommend you rouse the yeast gently and give it another week. This is a beer that will take a long time, so it'd be best to start being patient now.


First time sour, and learned some valuable lessons. Attempting to make the Concecration (aquired a kit from More Beer). Seems there is quite a bit of chatter and experience with this kit on this blog so off with the questions.

1. Any recommendations when to rack to secondary? I was under the impression I would rack after a week to secondary. My OG was only 1.072. I brewed last Friday and have a fermentation chamber where I have been able to control the environment within +/- 1 degree. I started at 72 and let it go for 4 days, I then increased to 76 degrees as recomennded by MoreBeer.com. When checking my SG today, hoping to rack to seconday it is only 1.024 (should have made a starter- but ended up pitching 2 vials of 0530 - so I knew I would be short but was still hoping for a better outcome). Anyway, any recommendations? Keep going primary? Rack and roll the dice? From what I am picking up across this blog is most are racking in the teens. Thus, considering returninging it to my fermentation chamber and letting it go another week.
 
I brewed this today also. Hit 1.088, pitched 2 fails of Abby as I didn't have time to get a starter going. I can't wait to drink this in a year. The wort was perfect!
 
First time sour, and learned some valuable lessons. Attempting to make the Concecration (aquired a kit from More Beer). Seems there is quite a bit of chatter and experience with this kit on this blog so off with the questions.

1. Any recommendations when to rack to secondary? I was under the impression I would rack after a week to secondary. My OG was only 1.072. I brewed last Friday and have a fermentation chamber where I have been able to control the environment within +/- 1 degree. I started at 72 and let it go for 4 days, I then increased to 76 degrees as recomennded by MoreBeer.com. When checking my SG today, hoping to rack to seconday it is only 1.024 (should have made a starter- but ended up pitching 2 vials of 0530 - so I knew I would be short but was still hoping for a better outcome). Anyway, any recommendations? Keep going primary? Rack and roll the dice? From what I am picking up across this blog is most are racking in the teens. Thus, considering returninging it to my fermentation chamber and letting it go another week.

You should wait until the Abbey yeast is finished. Never go based on time.
 
mors said:
You should wait until the Abbey yeast is finished. Never go based on time.

I let the wlp530 get down to 1.020, cold crashed, racked to secondary and pitched the roeselare.

You're totally fine with letting the sacch finish, it just all depends on how sour you want it and what other dregs/bugs you're throwing in. The higher the gravity before pitching the bugs, the more sour it'll be.

If you're throwing Brett in before the roeselare, you'll probably want to leave something easy to eat before it has to compete with the lacto and pedio.

Just my 2 cents. Cheers!
 
yeah I still say let the yeast finish..because there is more to a yeast finishing than just getting the FG down. The yeast clean up many off flavors there at the end...
 
mors said:
yeah I still say let the yeast finish..because there is more to a yeast finishing than just getting the FG down. The yeast clean up many off flavors there at the end...

The Brett. Lacto and pedio will clean up any off flavors as well.
 
Appreciate the pointers. Not doing adding a Roeselare, simply going 0530 to Brett in secondary. Am I missing a flavor profile here by not adding Roeselare? Following the morebeer.com kit.
 
wheidem1 said:
Appreciate the pointers. Not doing adding a Roeselare, simply going 0530 to Brett in secondary. Am I missing a flavor profile here by not adding Roeselare? Following the morebeer.com kit.

Without the lacto and pedio you're not going to get any real sourness. Your beer though, so if you're just looking for a Brett spiked beer with currants, go for it.
 
Thanks guys! My bad - looks like I'm going to 1.016 then racking, adding currants and Brett, going 7-8 weeks and then the Roeselare. You were right! Thanks for your persistence I would have missed that step all together!

Cheers.
 
Didn't buy the "kit", but pretty much followed the recipe. After a week in primary & getting down to 1.016, I crash cooled and racked onto Zante currants with Brett L. Been going for a week. In another 6 weeks, I will pitch the roselaire. Apparently it seems that the oak should wait until desired sourness is reached because the cubes are pretty "raw" and oak extraction would be quick and possibly too high. I have my oak cubes soaking in Cabernet. By the time I pitch the rosealaire, they will be soaking for 3 months. What's the consensus of throwing the cubes in with the bugs? I figure the long term soaking will have leeched out any harsh tannins the oak would otherwise impart.
 
Didn't buy the "kit", but pretty much followed the recipe. After a week in primary & getting down to 1.016, I crash cooled and racked onto Zante currants with Brett L. Been going for a week. In another 6 weeks, I will pitch the roselaire. Apparently it seems that the oak should wait until desired sourness is reached because the cubes are pretty "raw" and oak extraction would be quick and possibly too high. I have my oak cubes soaking in Cabernet. By the time I pitch the rosealaire, they will be soaking for 3 months. What's the consensus of throwing the cubes in with the bugs? I figure the long term soaking will have leeched out any harsh tannins the oak would otherwise impart.

IMO, the kit was a nice package deal, but didn't give you anything "special." I think that Vinnie's oak cubes would not give much to the beer other than oak character - most of the "bug work" will be done by the pedio and lacto that is in the Roeselare. You'd have to do a bit of work to cultivate RRBC's wild yeasts and bugs from the oak in the kit, if it's even possible.

A few comments / suggestions...
Depending on which Brett L you used, you might not get much of the funky Brett character (more noticeable with Brett B) since your initial pitch was a single strain. But you will get two Brett strains from Roeselare, have never been able to confirm which two.

Suggest you do not throw the oak cubes in with the bugs. The bugs will take a few to several months to get your desired sourness and you probably don't want to leave the oak in the beer the entire time. Easier to add the oak once your beer has attenuated fully and has the sourness you want. You might find you will leave the oak in for as little as a week or two to get the oaking you want - it all depends on what kind of oak you are using. I think one of the biggest benefits to using RRBC's oak is that you don't pull much tannin.

Finally, suggest you take care with leaving your oak in wine for that long. I think you'll risk infection from undesirable organisms (yeah, I know, ironic in a brett, pedio, lacto fermentation). I've come to the conclusion that if you really want wine character, you should just add wine. That wine will be vinegar you'll be soaking the cubes in after a week or so. Some might argue with me, but even in sour brewing, I would suggest some type of sanitation for your oak - look up the microwaving in water method - before you add it to your beer.
 
Thanks. Forgot to mention oak soaked in Cabernet is in vacuum sealed mason jar- but I will consider possible issues with infection/ vinegar. Didnt realize i would have been waiting 8-12 months before adding the cubes. i thought they went in with the roselaire. Also I wasn't overly concerned about only pitching one brett strain. The rosealaire may help with that, but I still get kind of leery when I hear "horse blanket" or "barnyard". But that's just me and I'm easing my way into it.

Oddly, though, in this particular thread everyone seems to stress the over-oaking that can be gotten if the cubes are left over 2 weeks. It seems that people are talking about cubes, not chips. A week or 2 seems to be the running theory for "Consecration" for cubes. But every other thread or article I've read (and my own experience) regarding using oak CUBES states that "oak" flavor/ tannin does not impart for a month, possibly 2, to get to a nice light- moderate level. For a darker complex brew like consecration I would think it would come across as light.
 
Oak to taste not to any specific time period. Add the oak... wait a few days and then start taking small samples every other day until it gets closer to the flavor you like. Oak flavor does fade with time too.
 
That's an important note to make mors - everyone is going to have a different opinion on how much oak to be adding, so oaking to taste is really the best option. Mhot55 - the reason most people are weary of leaving the oak from the Consecration kit in too long is because this is raw oak from actual consecration barrels (at least most of the surface area that will be in contact with your beer). The raw oak will impart those tannins / oak flavors faster than your standard oak cubes, so it will be important to check in on it sooner than you normally would. Hopefully this helps - cheers!
 
I assume it's too late for your brew day, but I did a second running. Got thinking about it during the process, and remembered I had some extra DME from making starter wort. Collected about 4 gallons from the spent grains, added just short of 3 lbs Briess DME, and boiled 1/2 oz of Kent Goldings I had for 60 minutes. I had a spare pack of Roeselare, and after 8 days it's settled down nicely. OG ended up at 1.057. Tried it yesterday to see what I had. It smells much more sour than what it is at thsi point, and it has a mild brett funk, and quite dry without measuring. I'm going to rack it onto a couple lbs of fruit, I was thinking peaches, and hide it away for a few months. Should be good next spring!

The second runnings have progressed super the sourness is about where I want it and I suspect it will continue to develop. I have about three gallons and it would be good on it's own, but I'm going to get 2 or 3 pounds of peaches and rack a couple gallons onto them. I'll bottle the rest to see how it turns out.

It may be time to sample the kit too, almost 5 months since brew day.
 
First time sour. When am I to expect my pellicle? After the Brett? Roeselare? I have been in my secondary w/ Brett addition for about 4 weeks. Currants are floating on top with no pellicle yet. Is the lack of a pellicle a bad sign? I have my Roeselare addition in about 4 weeks then time.
 
I didn't have a pellicle on either of mine for about 6 months. Basically the pellicle won't form until you start to get some oxygen in the fermentor. My airlocks got alittle drier than they should have and bam pellicles. Don't worry if you don't get one.
 
wheidem1,

Good question on the pellicle. I didn't have a pellicle on mine until about 2.5-3 months in, so yours should be just fine. Could give it a quick smell as it might start having a sour / funky smell after a month, but again, Brett can take awhile to get going, so patience will be your best friend on this beer :)

Cheers!
 
So I screwed up, after transferring to the secondary, I added my fruit and then the Roeselare blend. No Brett on its own. I thought the Roeselare blend had it all in it. It's been in the secondary for a month now.

Is it to late to add the Brett or should I forget it at this point?
 
So I screwed up, after transferring to the secondary, I added my fruit and then the Roeselare blend. No Brett on its own. I thought the Roeselare blend had it all in it. It's been in the secondary for a month now.

Is it to late to add the Brett or should I forget it at this point?

Roeselare does have brett in it. It's just "not the way Russian River does it".
 
Roeselare contains specific proportions of a Belgian style ale strain, a sherry strain, two Brettanomyces strains, a Lactobacillus culture, and a Pediococcus culture. I'm not 100% sure, but I THINK Russian River adds Brett first due to pH. Brett doesn't perform at lower pH, while Lacto will. Brett is added prior to the Roeselare to allow it to contribute its flavor and aroma before the lacto lowers the pH to a point where only it can operate. The peddio is something I'm uncertain of, but because it's a bacterium, I believe it also will operate at the lower pH. The Brett in the Roeselare will still contribute some "brettyness", but the finished beer will just have a little less of that flavor / character if Brett wasn't pitched prior. Pitching more brett to your beer after pitching the Roeselare will help though, so I'd say pitch it!

Cheers!
 
I'm getting a little ahead of myself as I have the brett pitched for about a month so far. I see that I should pitch the rosealaire after 6-8 weeks of the brett and then pitch the oak cubes "when the desired level of sourness is attained". Should I rack into a new carboy and add oak or just pitch the oak in the existing carboy? I assume the souring would stop if racked to a new carboy, but if left in it will become more sour.
 
Hey mhot55,

I would just throw the oak into the current carboy personally. I don't think the souring would stop, but it might slow down. Since a majority of the oak cubes is "raw oak", the oaking will take place quickly. By the time you've reached an appropriate level of oak (again, this should be done to taste, so there's no great timeline to provide), your sourness will have changed very minimally.

Hopefully this helps, but if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers!
 
I'm not bottling soon but I'm wondering what volumes people are carbing to? The real Consecration isn't highly carbed.

The reason I ask is bc I have 2 cases of those Vinnie bottles and would rather use them for a Saison Brett that's highly carbed.
 
I'm not bottling soon but I'm wondering what volumes people are carbing to? The real Consecration isn't highly carbed.

The reason I ask is bc I have 2 cases of those Vinnie bottles and would rather use them for a Saison Brett that's highly carbed.

That makes me jealous.
 
Good question on the carbonation. I have enough Belgian 750's to do my batch but don't want to use them simply for presentation.
 
TNGabe said:
Still for sale, I'm just too cheap to buy bottles.

Yea this was the first time I ever bought bottles in my 6 years of brewing. I likes them alot though.
 
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