Brewed, Primaried, Racked - Now what?

Hey All,

I brewed a flanders red that I used the rosalare blend on right way in primary along with the dregs from a Cuve Renne by Lindemuns and from a Ommegang Ommegeddon bottle.

It went from ~1.060 to ~1.020 over 2 weeks or so then leveled off and I racked it to secondary for the long haul.

My question is this: NOW WHAT?

Can anyone give me a loose time line for when I should:

[1] Add more sugar or DME
[2] Add the oak (chips-already bought)
[3] Open to allow oxygen in
[4] Should I be concerned about it leveling at 1.020?
[5] Other stuff I should do?

Thanks Guys

im sure others will chime in.
But bulk age it for 8-12 months.

You can use an oak dowl in a uni bung for o2.
Many here do and dont.
I do, and both my Flanders do not have split carboy neck at 6 months on.
Both of mine have a nice bit of funk on top because of the o2.

Can anyone give me a loose time line for when I should:

[1] Add more sugar or DME

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this isnt necessary per se, I do like to feed as it goes along, I tend to add a bit more wort at say the 6month mark and maybe again when I begin tasting for bottling time to see how things are and if I need to blend

[2] Add the oak (chips-already bought)

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Whenever, oak flavor isnt big in a flanders or other sour beer, the later you add it the more flavor it will give, oak is mostly a place for the bugs to live which you can then store and repitch

[3] Open to allow oxygen in

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Ive kinda come full swing on this one, I used to advocate a good amount of O2 getting in to the beers, but Ive slowly come around to minimizing o2 to most of my beers (limits acetic acid, and other unwanteds), but then on another batch i use for blending I allow generous amounts of oxygen to get in

[4] Should I be concerned about it leveling at 1.020?

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it will drop more, give it time, ill bet it gets down to at least 1008 if not lower given time

[5] Other stuff I should do?

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Put this in a closet and forget about it, and in the mean time get several more batches going, in my experience the only way to make a truly amazing sour is to have many batches going that you can blend together to make something sublime

Thanks Guys

So a regular bung with a airlock is ok?

yes, yes it is.

Wait...

Whenever, oak flavor isnt big in a flanders or other sour beer, the later you add it the more flavor it will give, oak is mostly a place for the bugs to live which you can then store and repitch

So if I add it NOW (with 11 months to go) I will get LESS oak flavor than if i add it with say 2-3 months left?

Also, how much should I add? And should I boil first?

yes, oak flavor will fade with time, after all your adding basically what amounts to a set amount of flavor to the beer, so extended aging will mellow the flavor which can be a good thing

if you add it with say 1mos to go (assuming chips here, cubes require longer) you will get more fresh oak flavor but it will be a bit harsher

So if I am looking for less oak, add it with about 2-3 months left?

Also, how will I know when there are 2-3 months left? Do I add them add month 9? 10? 12?

For what it's worth, I added my oak cubes (med toast french oak 1 oz I think) at the end of the boil and let them follow the wort into the carboy. They then sat in my flanders red for ~11 months. Over time they actually sank one by one. In the end, not too much of an oak flavor in mine. It's there, but subtle. I think ryane is right on this one. The longer they sit in there, the less (harsh) flavor you'll get from them.

Also, chips have more surface area than cubes, so YMMV...

Wait... a long time..... bottle..... wait, a long time...... sample

What about adding the oak if there is a pellicle already? Is it bad yto break through the pellicle?

Generally you don't want to disturb the pellicle, but it will reform (for the most part) if you break it to add some oak chips/cubes.

Ok, so I have 3oz of french medium toast oak chips soaking in 1 pint of makers mark.

I plan to let em soak for a few days, then drain the bourbon and add the chips.

This will be at about the 1 month mark and that means that they will be in there for a good 11 months or more.

Please advise me if you feel this should be adjusted ok? Thanks guys!

3oz of chips is A LOT of oak, I would suggest trying say 0.5-1oz max, taste in a couple months and if the level is low add more

chips dump their flavor into the beer very quickly due to the increase surface area, Ive also found that the flavor from chips isnt as smooth and vanilla-like as the cubes

Ok cool. Thanks for the heads up on the amount. I have used 2oz of orange peel in a beer and it was overwhelming.

The length of time and type of the Oak chips will determine what flavor you get in the end. Earlier it was discussed the later in the process you add them the more harsh oak flavor you get. To know what they are talking about drop a few chips into a cup of hot water. Wait till it cools and drink. (also a good idea to do with herbs you want to use)
But with time the oak flavor breaks down and produces more mild flavors. The most common vanilla. That is actually how imitation vanilla extract is made.

Ok cool guys thanks.

I added a little less that 1oz of bourbon soaked oak chips. Using a flash light i was able to see a wonderful amber red clear color to the sour already and a slightly sour smell (no taste) and the gravity dropped 6 more points from 1.020 to 1.014. Looks like we are heading in the right direction.

1 month mark is in 3 days.

I guess my next step would be to feed the sour more DME. But I havent read a lot on that. So in the "no what" theme of this thread...

Any tips on when/how much to add in regards to DME.

Thanks

I believe ryane on the forum has used a 1 lb of Dextrose at the 6 month mark. So that is something like 46 gravity points.
And for me I actually reserved some of my wort in a couple 22s (1.060). So I am going to add at least one, maybe 2 at the 6 month time. Which should give me 12 - 25 gravity points. I may add some dextrose depending on the taste.

I think it depends on the beer, taste it after several months and see how its progressing, if its lacking sourness you should add some food to feed it, if its quite tart let it ride

Like almighty said, I have added ~1# of maltodextrin at roughly the 6-8mos mark, but I enjoy extremely sour beers (think a mouthful of warheads), for a less puckering beer you should approach feeding the beer with caution and probably add 1/2# at most

Two Month Check In

1-Brewed two months ago
2-Racked after 2-3 weeks
3-Bourbon soaked oak at 5 week
4-Now we are at the 2 month mark

I know the basic plan is just to wait... But what should be on my radar?

Anything to watch for or do?

Thanks

Well not a lot to look for with sours. What I mean is that there may or may not be a pellicle depending on the O2 amount and the type of bugs you have present.
I would try your best to sample as little as possible. I try to hold off until the 6 month mark.

Ok, so moving forward, plan to check it at 5-6 months.
As far as amount of oxygen... I am using an airlock... Should I remove it once a month for a few seconds to all O2 in?

The amount of O2 for sour beers is a debatable issue.
You can do some reading on the forums and here
http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
Basically some people try to replicate the amount of O2 that permeates through a wooden barrel. But the size of the barrel makes a huge difference because of the Surface Area to Volume Ratio. Others use an airlock and haven't noticed much difference. Some people even report using a plastic buckets(pretty O2 permeable) and that producing great beer. Do some reading and see what you agree with.
In general the more O2 the more acetic acid (vinegar) taste you will have in your beer. But O2 can effect more than that.