Mead- When to move from Primary to Secondary?

Its been a sloooowwwww ferment so far....
I think the airlock has stopped bubbling altogether, but it never really bubbled all that much anyways. The most I noticed was about once every 9 seconds for about 3 days. Its 4 weeks in, so i wonder when should I move it to the secondary?
BTW- White Labs Sweet Mead yeast and 1 packet Pasteur Champagne Yeast, with a ton of yeast energizer.

I am new to mead but isn't this point in time exactly when your hydrometer would be very handy to determine whether how far fermentation has come?

I'd probably let it sit for at very least another month. Mead takes a long time, and it will be worth the wait.
I let my Leap year Mead sit in it's original fermenter for like 4 months before racking to secondary. I would hesitate to wait more than 6 or 8 months.

Take a hydrometer reading and see what it says. If you're DONE and I mean DONE with fermentation, you could rack at any time. That Pasteur will take you pretty dry, so (just a guess cause we don't know your OG.) I'd hold out for 1.000 before racking.

Naidirem said:

I am new to mead but isn't this point in time exactly when your hydrometer would be very handy to determine whether how far fermentation has come?

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bingo.
airlock...means nothing.
hydrometer...tells all.

Use the hydrometer - kaj030201.
Trust the hydrometer - kaj030201.
OK, enough cheap clichés.
I think mead should be renamed to patience. Or at least imagine hunters and gathers on yearly cycle migrations that "start" a "dream water" and come back to it a year later to enjoy it, then we need to talk about multi-year cycles and then you get some good mead.

The nice thing about this hobby are the different ways to reach the same end. There is no single correct way to make mead and the process is usually very forgiving.

My personal preference is to rack the mead off the gross lees after about a week of nutrient fed rapid primary fermentation. I feel that when I allow the mead to sit on all that yeast poop it may adversely affect the flavors. However, look at the success with JOA mead that completes fermentation and is then bottled from the primary.

Well I'd just follow the hydrometer readings i.e. when it gets somewhere between 1050 and 1030, it'd go into a secondary fermenter (glass by preference) and then leave it until it's finished.

Finished is, of course, relative. Depending on how much honey to the gallon was used in the must, what the yeast was, etc etc.

If it was a yeast that will ferment to dry (champagne yeast for example), dry might mean <1000, that's making the presumption that when you started it the gravity was about the 1130 mark (1130 would ferment to 17.66% ABV) as most champagne yeasts will go to about 18% or so, if it was any higher, then you might be left with a little residual sugar and it'd be sweeter.

Of course, it probably wouldn't be anywhere near some of the commercial meads I've tried here (in the UK), as they all seem to be "dessert" meads and have gravities of about 1040. I prefer mine to be between 1000 and 1015.

Dunno if that helps any.

regards

fatbloke

I REALLY wouldn't move it until its close to final gravity. Take half done mead that's 10% ABV and rack it off the healthy yeast cake...and now you've set yourself up for a stuck fermentation. Not guaranteed, but not ideal.

since the hydrometer read 1.000

and that was after 28 days!! is that weird?? it seemed to be very very fast, and i never noticed very pronounced airlock activity (the most was once every 9 seconds).
i never took an initial gravity reading (i was in between hydrometers ) but the recipe was basically 8# honey into 2.75 gallons water.

did something strange happen here??????

No, that sounds normal to me. Its probably done.

Honey is about 1.034 gravity points per pound of honey, per gallon of water. So you can estimate your Original gravity by taking 34 times 8 lbs, then divide by 2.75 gallons, equals 1.099 OG...roughly.

malkore said:

No, that sounds normal to me. Its probably done.

Honey is about 1.034 gravity points per pound of honey, per gallon of water. So you can estimate your Original gravity by taking 34 times 8 lbs, then divide by 2.75 gallons, equals 1.099 OG...roughly.

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you're the man dude! i was wondering what the estimated ABV was! 13% or so- not bad! Thanks!!

putting the 8lb of honey in 2.75 on gotmead.com gave 1.107 for a gravity.

tooomanycolors said:

putting the 8lb of honey in 2.75 on gotmead.com gave 1.107 for a gravity.

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9# of Clover honey (Speaking only from experience) and topped to a 3 gallon fermentor has reliably given me 1.100 So we are all right in that ball park. Just mix it up, and take a reading.

malkore said:

I REALLY wouldn't move it until its close to final gravity. Take half done mead that's 10% ABV and rack it off the healthy yeast cake...and now you've set yourself up for a stuck fermentation. Not guaranteed, but not ideal.

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Hum? now you've got me rather confused. The vast majority of recipes/methods I've either tried or read about, suggest this is the best way ahead.

As for stuck ferments, there's no reason (as I understand it) why that might be caused by racking into a secondary fermenter - as far as I can ascertain, stuck ferments are about lack of nutrient, lack of oxygen (when the yeast is first pitched), temperature problems and yeast reaching it's alcohol tolerance.

Of course, that's not an exhaustive list - there's probably many more that I haven't spotted, but as a fermenting must would/should be working from the active yeast cells that are suspended in the liquid, I'm at a loss at to why you believe that racking from primary to secondary (a "standard" practice - I understand) might cause a stuck ferment.

Afterall, isn't the whole idea of moving from primary to secondary, too allow the yeast cells to complete their process anaerobically ?

I'd be pleased to understand this, as it makes the methods/recipes I've read thus, incorrect.

regards

fatbloke

fatbloke said:

Afterall, isn't the whole idea of moving from primary to secondary, too allow the yeast cells to complete their process anaerobically ?

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Not so much.
The Yeast will create their own anaerobic state after they complete the respiration phase. The yeast will consume the oxygen without any help from us.
As Malkore has said, if you rack your mead off of a good healthy yeast cake, you reduce the viable cell count. Even though it may look like your yeast has settled out, it is constantly stirring itself. Live yeast cells are always on the move.
When you think of secondary fermenter, Please (at least with Mead) think of them only as clearing and aging vessels. The yeast will do what it needs to do in the primary. When it is FINISHED, then move your mead to a secondary for clearing and bulk aging.

BigKahuna said:

Not so much.
The Yeast will create their own anaerobic state after they complete the respiration phase. The yeast will consume the oxygen without any help from us.
As Malkore has said, if you rack your mead off of a good healthy yeast cake, you reduce the viable cell count. Even though it may look like your yeast has settled out, it is constantly stirring itself. Live yeast cells are always on the move.
When you think of secondary fermenter, Please (at least with Mead) think of them only as clearing and aging vessels. The yeast will do what it needs to do in the primary. When it is FINISHED, then move your mead to a secondary for clearing and bulk aging.

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Oh, OK thanks for the clarification of the point BK.

So how does "off flavours from the lees" factor into this ? Because much of the stuff I've read also says about getting the mead off the lees as quickly as possible to prevent it - plus racking off the sediment too secondary while it's still fermenting, apparently, helps with this, because the main part of the ferment will have already completed and the final part i.e. the secondary ferment, is then allowed to complete nice and slowly, which (again, apparently) allows it to finish without stressing the yeast cells that are actually still working.

Yes, I understand that it can "pause" the ferment process for a day or two after racking, but it recommences after it's settled down..........

Well that's how "it" read to me anyway.

Damn it'll be good when the HBS start selling "pixie dust" so that I can just mix the water/honey, sprinkle some of the pixie dust and bingo, as if by magic, finished mead

regards

fatbloke