Let's talk global warming...

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Dude

Dude

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Did anyone see the Glenn Beck special on CNN last night refuting Al Gore's "theories"? What a great piece. As many of you know, I have a meteorological and climatological background--so I am on the fence with many of the proposed hypothoses that are floating around. I believe it is a normal cycle--with some human manipulation, but not as much as is feared.

I believe the sheeple need a "fear monger" conspiracy to be happy. Y2K, global warming, whatever.

I hope the Glenn Beck special is re-aired at some point--it was great info.
 
I have read many points to both sides and agree that it may just be a natural cycle with the human stain pushing it along.

However, natural or not, can we afford a 1,2,5, or 10 degree rise in temp? Our food supply is reliant on the climate remaining stable. Any change cannot be good.
 
When it comes down to those who oppose it (warning: major generalization coming up)--big business, and those who believe it--scientists, I trust the latter.

Even if it isn't true (the weather seems to be getting F-d up everywhere, but I'm no scientist myself), it wouldn't hurt to come up with alternative fuels to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

Edit: Positions on issues aside, Glenn Beck is annoying. CNN's attempt to have balanced reporting, maybe.
 
I really don't get it, Its a natural process, what is their to argue about? The way I look at it is I will be long gone before any thing bad happens.
 
4 742 232 000 is the projected population of Asia in 2025 which represents 60% of the worlds population. Right now their carbon footprint is rather modest compared to ours.

In 2005 there werew 795 million auto in the world fleet. Right now there are 3 cars to every 4 people in the US. Are we really ready of any thing approaching this in Asia? Can you imagine 3 Billion cars in Asia alone? That just one measure of carbon output.
 
I could go on all day about this, and thanks to many of my weather/climate classes I have books and hundreds of articles and lots and lots of real scientific data.
 
z987k said:
I could go on all day about this, and thanks to many of my weather/climate classes I have books and hundreds of articles and lots and lots of real scientific data.
Click to expand...

So, what is it? Give us the condensed version. :)
 
desiderata said:
When it comes down to those who oppose it (warning: major generalization coming up)--big business, and those who believe it--scientists, I trust the latter.
Click to expand...

I like it when business and the current administration cite the melting of glaciers will create more shipping lanes and have a positive effect on trade.
 
olllllo said:
I like it when business and the current administration cite the melting of glaciers will create more shipping lanes and have a positive effect on trade.
Click to expand...

Doesn't surprise me at all. Talk about one thing on the mind--cha-ching! $$$
 
I think it's funny that people think when icebergs melt (just frozen water) that the ocean will rise.... ok umm where was mass added, the icebergs are already in the water... It's like a cup of water, does the water level rise when the ice melts? no....


I did a paper on this subject, looking over a LOT of stuff it is natural... The claim of now being hotter than it's been in thousands of years is WRONG... Look up something called the Holocene Maximum (BEFORE man had industry)...

I also have an article somewhere from a Doctor Essenhigh who says it will end in 10 to 20 years...
 
DeadYetiBrew said:
I think it's funny that people think when icebergs melt (just frozen water) that the ocean will rise.... ok umm where was mass added, the icebergs are already in the water... It's like a cup of water, does the water level rise when the ice melts? no....


I did a paper on this subject, looking over a LOT of stuff it is natural... The claim of now being hotter than it's been in thousands of years is WRONG... Look up something called the Holocene Maximum (BEFORE man had industry)...

I also have an article somewhere from a Doctor Essenhigh who says it will end in 10 to 20 years...
Click to expand...

I looked it up.

Holocene Maximum occured between 6500 and 3500 B.C ergo the claim of "now being hotter than it's been in thousands of years" is correct since this occurred 8500 to 5500 years ago.
 
I should also add that if we were all still using wood cooking fires that would also create alot of CO2.

Yes. It's an unsubstantiated claim. But so is assuming lack of industry is proof that it is an exclusively natural effect.
 
olllllo said:
I looked it up.

Holocene Maximum occured between 6500 and 3500 B.C ergo the claim of "now being hotter than it's been in thousands of years" is correct since this occurred 8500 to 5500 years ago.
Click to expand...

Yes correct however most claims of "hotter than thousands of years" try to claim it as being hottest point in 10 thousand years...


Not only that but how are the 'scientist' that support the man made claim going to measure how much greenhouse gases are expelled by the earth into the atmosphere.... I give you Volcanos, while scientists can GUESS at how much CO2 is expelled they cannot measure. I've seen results stating volcanos put out more CO2 in one event than man does all year, i've seen others that state man puts out more than volcanos...

The Earth is an open system meaning that all of the possibilities and variables can not be accounted for making the scientific process null and void in trying to prove Global Warming to be Natural or Man-made.

I'm not saying pollution is wrong but i am saying there's no way of know what the cause is, so why waste millions of dollars and time debating it instead of figuring out a way to help plant and animal life that will be wiped out with temperature increases, because both sides say the temperature will increase.
 
desiderata said:
So, what is it? Give us the condensed version. :)
Click to expand...
ok, I'll make a power point with graphs and data, hopefully it wont be too big.
 
olllllo said:
I should also add that if we were all still using wood cooking fires that would also create alot of CO2.

Yes. It's an unsubstantiated claim. But so is assuming lack of industry is proof that it is an exclusively natural effect.
Click to expand...

I claim it as MOSTLY natural, i never said industry had nothing to do with it, just not as much as nature does.
 
ok well I made a ppt that ended up to be 65 slides long and ~18mb.
Hmmm, I don't know how I can host this anywhere.
 
While it's certainly possible that we are warming up the planet, how do we know that it's not actually just part of a natural cycle? Back in the 1300's (?) or so, scandinavians were living in Greenland. Over a period of just a few years the climate cooled and the waters between Greenland and Scandinavia started freezing over for so long each year that ships could no longer supply the people living there. There wasn't enough gras for their animals to graze on and the people who tried to stay eventually perished from either cold or starvation or both. Back then England was a better wine producing area than France. Is it totally improbable that we are simply warming back up again as part of a natural climate change?
 
The true cause of global warming
​
gore.jpg

​

BTW your SUV's are melting Mars now . . . .

The Great Global Warming Swindle

BTW CNN will probably re-air the special all weekend if they follow their past weekend braodcast schedual of Glenn Beck
 
I dont remember who exactly posted it on here but someone did...


If you think about it, if the earth is expanding and getting larger what does the increase size mean? More area to absorb sunlight... it's possible, why the hell not?

Also, the Earth's axis is tilted, that's what causes the seasons. However it isn't a strict tilt it actually wobbles, this could also be the cause...

A lot of scientists also discount water vapor in the atmosphere as contributing to warming...

I found a list of scientists, and specialists in areas that are related to Earth science, who deny the Global Warming is solely man-made. I'll see if I can find it...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
um yeah that earth is growing thing is full of ****. where is the mass coming from? PFM?

DeadYeti, read my massive ppt, one of the slides has a nice spectrum analysis and absorption by various molecules. H20 is one of them. ... slide 3.
 
McCall St. Brewer said:
While it's certainly possible that we are warming up the planet, how do we know that it's not actually just part of a natural cycle? Back in the 1300's (?) or so, scandinavians were living in Greenland. Over a period of just a few years the climate cooled and the waters between Greenland and Scandinavia started freezing over for so long each year that ships could no longer supply the people living there. There wasn't enough gras for their animals to graze on and the people who tried to stay eventually perished from either cold or starvation or both. Back then England was a better wine producing area than France. Is it totally improbable that we are simply warming back up again as part of a natural climate change?
Click to expand...

These facts must have been determined based on scientific evidence (1300s). It is scientific evidence that is proving global warming today. Why should we accept the evidence in that case and dispute it in this (current) case.
 
Also, I can't trust anything Al Gore has to say on global warming since he's making a profit out of it. Did you know you can pay a certain amount of money and create all the CO2 you want? Yeah who's pocket does that go to?

There was a scientist working at a research lab that studied Ice deposits. The current data said that the ice deposits were becoming smaller according to their readings history. Well, going back to some of the original readings he noticed that their readings were miscalculated, recalculating them he realized that the ice deposits were actually growing. He decided to come out and make his findings public. He was canned and his work censored by his boss because his boss had a different opinion on the matter. Now his boss claims he was canned and censored because he didn't come to him on the matter first... Right so you could do what you did anyway?

I think the bs about big business not supporting global warming because it means they lose money is total crap. There's people making money off of it that do support it (al gore).

You also can't say scientists support the theory that global warming is mans fault because you have to first look at what those scientists study. A biochemist won't know anything about the matter. However if everyone geologist and climatologist were to claim it was man's fault I would start to beleive that side more...
 
z987k said:
um yeah that earth is growing thing is full of ****. where is the mass coming from? PFM?

DeadYeti, read my massive ppt, one of the slides has a nice spectrum analysis and absorption by various molecules. H20 is one of them. ... slide 3.
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw it... i was just saying a lot of people don't look at H2O... I know it plays a part in it...
 
desiderata said:
These facts must have been determined based on scientific evidence (1300s). It is scientific evidence that is proving global warming today. Why should we accept the evidence in that case and dispute it in this (current) case.
Click to expand...

Actually the argument is about 50/50... there's scientific facts disproving global warming and proving natural cycle... The results either side gets can be disputed and used for the other sides gain, it's turning into politics...



EDIT: I didn't mean to make 3 posts in a row, i meant to put them all in one...
 
What the hell lets just argue with nothing but opinions and unsupported facts!

deadyeti, u post whore :)
 
z987k said:
What the hell lets just argue with nothing but opinions and unsupported facts!
Click to expand...


Why argue it at all? I mean when you look at the different variables that are possible there is absolutely no way of knowing for sure what the cause is.

I agree on the natural cycle, i even have facts to back up what i said i'm just too lazy to fetch them lol... I think the PPT you made is awesome and could be used to show people the facts. I hate the fact that people are agreeing with it being completely man made because that's the 'popular concensus" without getting the facts for themselves.

I swear i wasn't trying to post whore... lol
 
DeadYetiBrew said:
Why argue it at all? I mean when you look at the different variables that are possible there is absolutely no way of knowing for sure what the cause is.

I agree on the natural cycle, i even have facts to back up what i said i'm just too lazy to fetch them lol... I think the PPT you made is awesome and could be used to show people the facts. I hate the fact that people are agreeing with it being completely man made because that's the 'popular concensus" without getting the facts for themselves.

I swear i wasn't trying to post whore... lol
Click to expand...

While I do believe that the climate is changing and I do believe it's due to man's influence, I also know that there are some things that dispute the other evidence and therefor it's more of the theory right now than fact.
 
z987k said:
While I do believe that the climate is changing and I do believe it's due to man's influence, I also know that there are some things that dispute the other evidence and therefor it's more of the theory right now than fact.
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http://teacher.pas.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

That's a great read on scientific method and why we'll never prove which theory is correct.

or

http://www.freeinquiry.com/intro-to-sci.html
This ones a little shorter

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/nowarm.htm
Article about Essenhigh

http://www.gcrio.org/CONSEQUENCES/winter96/geoclimate.html
Article on Geologic History

Grr i'm trying to find my other articles... My head's killing me i'll find em tomorrow...
 
Actually we will find out who is right in 20-100 years :)

I too have **** loads of articles. I actually have probably over 100 ppt's/pdf's from professors, scientists that came and lectured - for and against, and other general things pertaining to the matter. The 65 I chose was hard, I wanted to include every one, lol.
 
z987k said:
Well I decided to host it on my computer, I've got **** tons of bandwidth so what the hell.
ftp://[email protected]/climate.ppt
Click to expand...

So much for the condensed version, LOL :) I did get the gist, though.

:off: I wish I knew how to (or if there is even a way to) make multiple quotes in one post. I'm borderline becoming a post-whore too. :)
 

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