Melanoiden malt replacement

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renevdb

renevdb

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Next moth I will be brewing a Belgian dark strong again and found a recipe that looks pretty good. Problem is that my LHBS does not sell Melanoidin malt, don't feel like paying $6 in shipping for a 1/2#.

Looking at the below recipe what are my options on substituting it.

Belgian Pilsen Malt
Belgian Munich Malt
Belgian Aromatic Malt
Cara Munich
Belgian Special B Malt
Wheat Malt
Melanoidin Malt

I can do a decoction but then how long will I do the boil before returning to the mash? Also do I just do 1 step to mash out or do I need todo step?
 
Try dark munich 20L or I was going to say aromatic, but you already have that in you recipe. If they don't stock the dark munich try upping the aromatic a touch
 
I would just up the Munich a bit, it's the closest substitute for Melanoidin. I don't think the difference in SRM would matter much given that grain bill. Your looking for the malt characteristic, which is what Munich will provide.
 
Yeah, I believe I've seen Melanoiden described as "turbo Munich" so it does seem unnecessary to have Munich, Aromatic & Melanoiden all in one batch.
 
Conroe said:
It's redundant to use both Aromatic Malt and Melanoidin Malt in the same recipe. Your LHBS is correct in stocking only one.
Click to expand...

I have never used either malt, but just today I tasted some grains of both at my LHBS and they were drastically different. They may be similar in color, but melanoiden was more bready/toasty while the aromatic was more sweet. I also found the aromatic to have a
more pronounced smell. I'm not convinced that they can be treated as the same.
 
I've only used melanoidin malt once (in a barleywine), and I'm still waiting on that beer to bottle condition. If it is what I think it is - a malt enriched in melanoidins - you could probably do something similar with some dark munich malt and a long decoction.
 
I have all three in my stockpile and just did a side by side. There is no way you will get a melanoidin flavour from using either aromatic or munich. As JLem said the melanoidin tastes "toasty" the munich and aromatic are just mild malted barley flavour and sweetness.

In your situation - a dark belgian - I would just leave it out. You have plenty of flavours already. Now if it was a bock or dopplebock where the flavour would be much more noticeable I would bite the bullet and get some shipped or learn to do decoction mashing.

GT
 
JLem said:
I have never used either malt, but just today I tasted some grains of both at my LHBS and they were drastically different. They may be similar in color, but melanoiden was more bready/toasty while the aromatic was more sweet. I also found the aromatic to have a
more pronounced smell. I'm not convinced that they can be treated as the same.
Click to expand...

IMO just tasting raw grain gives little insight to what is tastes like in a finished beer. If it's sweet you still have no idea how fermentable that sweetness is. If it's not sweet you have no idea how it's starches will end up after converted and fermented in a finished beer.

The fact is Melanoidin and Aromatic malts are made in similar fashions by different maltsters. Of course they are different but they have more similarities than differences. I'd bet Castle's is equally different from Dingeman's or Briess. Melanoiden® is just Weyermann's special name for it.
 
Conroe said:
IMO just tasting raw grain gives little insight to what is tastes like in a finished beer. If it's sweet you still have no idea how fermentable that sweetness is. If it's not sweet you have no idea how it's starches will end up after converted and fermented in a finished beer.

The fact is Melanoidin and Aromatic malts are made in similar fashions by different maltsters. Of course they are different but they have more similarities than differences. I'd bet Castle's is equally different from Dingeman's or Briess. Melanoiden® is just Weyermann's special name for it.
Click to expand...

While I agree with the sweetness issue there is no way you are going to get a toasty/biscuit flavour that isn't there. Mashing will not create it. I only have samples of Weyermans melanoidin and Briess' aromatic so cannot comment on the other maltsters.

GT
 

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