Best burner? Hurricane VS Jet VS Banjo?

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Yavid

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I know this topic has been posted on here several times before, but after reading posts for 2 hours straight I am as confused as ever. I am currently in the process of designing a single tier brewing system. I really need some help choosing the right burners to use. Like many others I am starting with the Brutus 10 as a template.

I've noticed that many others who have built Brutus 10 clones have opted to use banjo burners or hurricane burners instead of the multi tip jet burners. I've also noticed that some people have used both (Hurricane style for MLT and Boil and Jet style for HLT). Using both styles is actually starting to make sense to me. Just wondering what everyone else's opinions are.

A little about my plans: I hope to run this system off low pressure propane (ie: BBQ tank) for the time being. Control will be manual at first but I'd like to build in some automation as funds become available. Eventually I would also like to hook the system up to NG (maybe in my next house, this one ain't a "keeper"). The ability to easily switch back and forth from LP to NG would be nice (but maybe not realistic). Not going through a bottle of propane in one 10G brew would be nice as well.

Any suggestions? If you were building a new single tier system with these goals in mind what would you use? My apologies for reposting this topic again but my eyes are killing me, it's time for bed and I was really hoping to shop around for burners tomorrow.
 
Sounds like you and I are working on similar projects. From the searches I've been doing it seems like jet burners should only be reserved for HLT lest they scorch your mash or wort. The hurricane burners can be used for both propane and natural gas, but might require some mod of the orifice for max performance with propane. And banjo burners seem like a good all around propane option, although some have had issues with quality control consistency and you might have to punch out some of the holes.

My criteria are pretty similar to yours and right now I'm leaning toward the banjos, maybe with a jet for my HLT. But I agree it seems tough to find discussion of specific enough differences to base a decision on. I'd really like to know which heats quickest without compromising quality. But as far as I can tell most of the differences sound subtle or subjective.
 
I'm waffling back and forth on these options as well. Ubermick and I are doing an 'Et Two Brutus' build in the next week or so. We've got the stainless square tubing and he's chosen banjos. I have used a propane banjo on a turkey fryer, but want to go NG to get away from the tanks. I have a 6 burner impinged jet burner that is still in a box. If anyone has a clear direction from experience, I'd like to hear it too.
 
I have been looking into the exact same thing for some time also.
Here is what I have found:

Hurricane 10" burners are LOW pressure burners, Banjo 10" burners are High pressure burners.
Both will give you the ability to have a fairly large degree of flame control unlike the multi tip jet wok burners. Differences are that Low pressure burners allow you the ability to convert to natural gas by 1 of 2 methods.
1) Purchasing a natural gas orifice
or,
2) Drilling out the LP propane orifice to a larger diameter opening according to the many available LP to Natural gas conversion charts available via Google search.
Additionally, you NEED to use either Natural gas or LP propane gas to utilize a standing or intermittent pilot REAL home furnace valve.

If you use High pressure propane you will likely need to use the ASCO or STC type valves as they are capable of functioning at higher pressure. The down side of this option is that they are NOT technically made for this use. (With that said, many people use this type of valve for this purpose all the time without any problem).
Furthermore, There in no safety valve built into this type of setup and if you are concerned with the pilot being blown out you should add a safety valve.

Lowest prices I have found to the Hurricane burners are $49.99 w/out orifices from http://www.gasngrills.com/gas-parts/stove-parts.html
Lowest price found for Banjo burners are $29.95 from http://www.agrisupply.com/search.asp?ss=burner

Low pressure Hurricane burners cost substantially more then high pressure Banjo burners. Intermittent gas valves cost substantially more then comparable standing pilot valves or ASCO/STC. Use your own judgment and budget to guide you to the heat source for you dream system.

One more bit of info, DO NOT BUY HURRICANE BURNERS FROM http://www.firehousecatering.com/hp_misc.htm, they have stolen $114 from me that I sent for burners. They will not return any phone calls, emails or even the dispute email from PayPal. This has become a terrible hassle. Through additional research I found a fellow HBT member to have gone through this same problem with them a few months before me. Fortunately for him PayPal refunded his money, I can only hope to be so lucky.

If any of the info I listed is incorrect please post you corrections so that I and the HBT community can be better informed.
 
The Hurricane and Banjo burners are essentially the same casting with different trade names, both can be used at both high and low pressure with appropriate jets. The Honeywell VR 8300a standing pilot valve is about the least expensive route for controlling the low pressure LP and NG systems, roughly $15-$20 more than just a STC solenoid valve. Conversion between LP and NG will mean burner jet, pilot orifice, and control valve regulator changes, about $15 in parts and a drill bit.
 
The Hurricane and Banjo burners are essentially the same casting with different trade names, both can be used at both high and low pressure with appropriate jets.

Is this true? If so, what do you mean when you say 'jets'? I would think you meant the tips where the flame comes out, but those are fixed on. Perhaps you meant orifice? Or maybe they are the same thing and I'm the one confused.

Either way, how do I convert my low pressure hurricane to high pressure? I need it for the occasional "larger than 10 gallon" brew.
 
Thanks for posting the thread. I am at the same point in my build and am having trouble choosing. I've read most of the post on this posts on this forum and still haven't decided on a burner. Since I will be using low flame on my MT I need to have the ability to have a small flame, and still light it with automation.

I'm making something more similar to a Brew-Magic, using a RIMS for mash control and the burner for stepping. I plan on using an intermittent pilot for control since I want to walk away from my rig while brewing. I am also starting off with a semi-auto set up and putting in more automation as my budget allows.
 
Sorry for the confusion, by "jet" I meant the gas orifice fitting, these can be changed out to suit operating pressure. Higher the system gas pressure, the higher the air flow and flame size from a given burner. The larger the burner the lower the change in output when switched between high to low system pressure because of lower back pressure at air/fuel mixer.
 
Ok. So if I am understanding everything correctly:

Banjo burners & Hurricane burners have a wider range of adjustment then Jet burners.

Jet burners provide more BTU.

A Banjo burner of Hurricane burner is a better choice then a Jet burner for the Boil Kettle and MLT. You can use either style for the HLT.

A Banjo burner is the same casting as a Hurricane burner. Either burner can be run with high pressure or low pressure, NG or LP just by changing the gas orifice.

Any of these burners can be used in either a manual setup or an automated setup.

Is this all correct?
 
A little about my plans: I hope to run this system off low pressure propane (ie: BBQ tank) for the time being.

Just so you don't get in trouble with the wrong parts, a 20# BBQ propane tank is a high pressure supply, low pressure would be a large tank set up to run a furnace.
 
That is essentialy correct, the 10 jet burner would be the largest unmodified jet burner to use. There are 2 approaches to automation, low pressure with standing pilot furnace valves, and electric ignition of pilot lights which will work with both high or low pressure with appropriate components. The high pressure route requires 2 solenoid valves, 1 pilot, and 1 ignition module for each burner. The low pressure route with 1 standing pilot furnace valve, 1 pilot, 1 thermocouple for furnace valve for each burner, and this is usually cheaper to build.
 
Perfect. I'm going to start shopping for banjo/hurricane burners later today. Thank you to everyone who contributed comments to this post.
 
Just so you don't get in trouble with the wrong parts, a 20# BBQ propane tank is a high pressure supply, low pressure would be a large tank set up to run a furnace.
This isn't entirely correct. It all depends on the regulator attached to the LP tank (regardless of size). For instance, currently I have a low pressure regulator hooked to my hurricane (I think its around 1-2 psi). A high pressure stove would use a regulator that allows a much higher pressure such as 10-15 or so (not sure exactly).

A typical house installed LP system has the entire house regulated down to a much lower pressure than tank pressure for safety reasons.
 
The Banjo and Hurricane burner are the same thing. The Natural gas conversion valve for the Hurricane screws right into the Banjo.
 
The Banjo and Hurricane burner are the same thing. The Natural gas conversion valve for the Hurricane screws right into the Banjo.

Do you have 100% confirmation that the above statement is correct? I thought about doing this to save a considerable amount of money but was informed from other sources that the NG Hurricane orifice did not fit the Banjo.
If it does fit the Banjo there is no reason to spend the extra money on a Hurricane. A banjo can be bought for under $30.
Please confirm and send photos if you have them, if this is correct I'm going to place my order for 3 Banjos tonight.
 
... The Honeywell VR 8300a standing pilot valve is about the least expensive route for controlling the low pressure LP and NG systems, roughly $15-$20 more than just a STC solenoid valve...

The White Rodgers 36C03-300 is far less expensive at under $50 each.
 
Someone else has done it. If you google it you'll find it. I am just drilling out the orifice an saving another $30. Its definately not rocket science if you start small and work your way up using your exact setup.
 
Also just to add. You can buy those same exact brass orifice's at Ace Hardware, so worst case scenario you drill too big of a hole trying to get it perfect, run to the store buy another one for $4 and drill in the last size that worked well.
 
Natural Gas Conversion
by Hopster on Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:51 pm

I just finished my first batch after converting my burners to nat gas and I thought I'd pass on some info for anyone that may be contemplating the same. I have a Bayou Classic Banjo burner that's not supposed to be able to be converted, but I found that it can. I bought the conversion valve that NB sells for the Hurricane burner and it fits the Banjo. I drilled the orifice a little bigger and I get plenty of heat for a vigorous boil (9 gal). I also bought the replacement orifice for the Banjo and that fit my other burner (turkey fryer) and was able to drill it out to get all the heat I need. When I was planing the conversion I found that info was slim to none and what was there often turned out to be wrong.
Cheers.

From: http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79812

Cheers! P.S. I just got my Banjo's in yesterday and will be running them on Natural Gas Hooray!
 
so how are you controlling the flame level with NG, what kind of regulator do you need. I want to hook this up to a single tier stand when I built one.
 
Just a regular ball valve, no regulator needed since you'll be grabbing you NG source after your meter which is regulating the pressure already. And just as a heads up most people that have done a single tier stand say that they would probably do a two tier for mashing purposes. To each thier own but I was going to do a single until I really looked into it.
 
I don't think you are correct about the not needing a pressure regulator. The reason you do not need them on the automated burners is because the White Rodgers & Honeywell valves have regulators built into the gas valves. For the manual burner you will still need a NG regulator as below on Nickstech build: the link is to his, NOT my brew rig build. This is outlined in his build, he owns a HVAC co. and is using NG converted Hurricane burners. You will also need a 24v transformer to change the power supplied to the gas valves, with the exception of the manual regulator since no power is needed for that one.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-brew-rig-build-95433/
br029.JPG

br031.JPG
 
Here is my two cents on burners.

I started with the cast iron 55,000 noise maker burners and learned to not like them. They run on low pressure (approx. 5 psi), generate the least heat, and are loud enough to be very annoying throughout brew day.

I have read about way too many problems with the multi jet made in China burners. While they may look cool, they have way to many people not liking them. I do not hear much bad about banjos from people that actually have them and use them.

I replaced the cast iron noise makers with the larger banjo burner (approx 155,000 BTU) with a bigger regulator I bought from a propane supplier and love them now. I have never scorched any beer no matter how much heat I pump through (flames wrapping the whole keggle), they are much quieter, and they save a bunch of time with so much more BTU production. My regulator guage only shows 3 psi propane is feeding them but it is a larger regulator allowing much more flow too. Still low pressure regardless. I am pretty sure the bottom line whether high or low pressure is more about how much volume is being delivered to the burner. A small bbq regulator or turkey frier regulator does not work well with the larger banjo burner.

My advice is to go with the larger banjo from the start and get a larger regualtor from a propane parts supplier.

Cast Iron Burner 55000 BTU.jpg
 
You should not need a regulator, I'm not sure why those are there but they look like they're there to light the pilot ? I dont know. You want as much NG pressure as you can at your burners, which after your meter in your basement is not going to be much.
 
The White Rodgers have pilot valves, the NG regulator on the Boil kettle is there because you need a regulator. There is no pilot on the boil kettle burner. You are also incorrect as to how much NG you want, it shouldn't be more then 11wc

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE_CONVERSION_VALVE_P2214.cfm
E.g.
HURRICANE CONVERSION VALVE Description
This valve replaces the included brass propane burner valve to allow the Hurricane to run on natural gas. You will need a gas connection hose with a 3/8" female flare end to attach to this valve to your natural gas source.

FOR OUTDOOR USE ONLY. THIS VALVE OPERATES AT 11" W.C. OF PRESSURE. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE APPROPRIATE REGULATOR IS UTILIZED. CONSULT HURRICANE PRODUCTS CUSTOMER SERVICE AT 1-800-624-4711 SHOULD YOU REQUIRE ASSISTANCE IN SELECTING THE PROPER REGULATOR.
 
I plan on getting banjos (cause they are cheaper and easier to find) and drilling them out. If it doesnt work then I will get the LP NG conversion oriface from northern brewer or williams brewing.
 
Yea, that looks like a good deal, 3 burners from them $120 shipped. 3 burners from Agrisupply.com $119.35 shipped. I wonder who has the better customer service? After being burnt by Firehousecatering customer service is my deciding factor.
 
Yea, that looks like a good deal, 3 burners from them $120 shipped. 3 burners from Agrisupply.com $119.35 shipped. I wonder who has the better customer service? After being burnt by Firehousecatering customer service is my deciding factor.


Go ahead and regulate your NG pressure down and see what kind of flame you get. Have you looked into this at all? Your not going to get 11 wc after your NG meter
 
With residential NG supply pressure at 4" - 7" WC a regulator is not needed for the attended brewing system burners, you are controlling the flame size. The standing pilot gas valves use a built in regulator as a control valve for the appliance burner firing rate, and are nearly immune to changes in system pressure from other loads.
 
FWIW, I have the Hurricane burner and 'conversion valve' from Williams and I have a regulator for propane (obviously), but not for NG. The pressure is low enough already that it isn't needed. Sometimes, I think it could be a bit more actually.
 
Yea, that looks like a good deal, 3 burners from them $120 shipped. 3 burners from Agrisupply.com $119.35 shipped. I wonder who has the better customer service? After being burnt by Firehousecatering customer service is my deciding factor.

I've had excellent luck with them. I placed an order early last month, and they had a tracking number emailed to me within 12hrs. :)
 
With residential NG supply pressure at 4" - 7" WC a regulator is not needed for the attended brewing system burners, you are controlling the flame size. The standing pilot gas valves use a built in regulator as a control valve for the appliance burner firing rate, and are nearly immune to changes in system pressure from other loads.

FWIW I just checked my gas regulator in the house after the 2 psi main and it says 7"-11" so I should be good to go without a regulator on my Hurricane I just ordered. :mug:

-Steve
 
can someone confirm what i am doing, I bought 3 banjo burners. I have a 3/4 " natural gas line where I will be brewing, I also ordered 3 of the Williams Brewing hurricane NG conversion valves.

I will be connecting the burners to the NG with the large diameter yellow flex line sold for hot water heaters.

In addition to the valves I bought I will have to drill out the orifice that came with the burnes, I should start small and work my way up until the flame is where I want it.

Does this all sound correct before I screw something up?

Thanks
 
If you bought the NG conversion valves you should be using them without drilling. After testing you might need some adjustment to orifice size, but that is hard to tell at this point. I found them to be a bit too big for my set up. If you have a 3/4" line you will need some reducer fitting to get down to the size of the conversion valve.
 
If you bought the NG conversion valves you should be using them without drilling. After testing you might need some adjustment to orifice size, but that is hard to tell at this point. I found them to be a bit too big for my set up. If you have a 3/4" line you will need some reducer fitting to get down to the size of the conversion valve.

I had planned on installing the Williams Brewing valves on a gas manifold, and run flex line from the valve to the burner.....the burner comes with a flare fitting with a small orifice on the burner side....this is what I was thinking would need drilling....thoughts?
 
No - you need to put the right sized valve in the burner itself. You could drill out the original valves supplied with the banjo and then run the gas from the manifold directly in. Do not choked down the supply by using two valves - don't think it will work.
 
I had planned on installing the Williams Brewing valves on a gas manifold, and run flex line from the valve to the burner.....the burner comes with a flare fitting with a small orifice on the burner side....this is what I was thinking would need drilling....thoughts?

No, the conversion valves are a valve + orifice as one piece. It has to thread directly into the the hole in the air damper. You can run remote valves but then at that point you kinda wasted money on the NG conversion when the stock orifices could have been drilled out.
 
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