Tucson, AZ water profile results from water dept.

Response from city water department. I hope this will be helpful to someone out there.

Yes. I can help with your request.
I did a year worth of data. Below are the averages of the 7 analytes you needed.

Ca = 77.25 ppm
SO4 = 172 ppm
Mg = 10.72 ppm
Cl = 62.5 ppm
Na = 93.5 ppm
Bicarb. Alk. = 191 ppm
pH = 7.6 S. U.

Let me know if you have further questions.
Thanks

Mohsen Belyani
Environmental Scientist
Water Quality

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Thanks!!

Just FYI, that looks like an average for the whole Tucson city water system, and the numbers here vary greatly from zone to zone. The total hardness may only average 55ppm in some zones, and as much as 300 in others. I'm pretty sure I have the details for zones 1 and 3 around here somewhere if anybody needs them. I also have the numbers for the Magee/La Cholla zone of the metro water system.

you need to make sure that your mineral content isn't changing during hte summer from the runoff from the monsoon

JuanMoore said:

Just FYI, that looks like an average for the whole Tucson city water system, and the numbers here vary greatly from zone to zone. The total hardness may only average 55ppm in some zones, and as much as 300 in others. I'm pretty sure I have the details for zones 1 and 3 around here somewhere if anybody needs them. I also have the numbers for the Magee/La Cholla zone of the metro water system.

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Thanks Juan, I am at the north end of Continental Ranch, near Avra Valley rd.
I would be interested in the details of zone 1, so post up.

Chimone said:

you need to make sure that your mineral content isn't changing during hte summer from the runoff from the monsoon

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The average that the city gives a good baseline, but Chimone brings up a good point in the post above... If we have a monsoon this year!

Thanks for the replies. Water is a quarter part of our beer and I have always found it to be difficult to understand.

I don't brew with Tucson water because of how wildly it varies and a lot of times it has chlorine/chloramines in it. Sup Tucson people!

saq said:

I don't brew with Tucson water because of how wildly it varies and a lot of times it has chlorine/chloramines in it. Sup Tucson people!

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Run it through a charcoal filter. Or even easier....fill up a container and let it sit overnight. The chlorine will gas off all by itself by the next day

Chimone said:

Run it through a charcoal filter. Or even easier....fill up a container and let it sit overnight. The chlorine will gas off all by itself by the next day

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I just buy distilled water that comes with a chemistry sheet, makes it easy!

saq said:

I just buy distilled water that comes with a chemistry sheet, makes it easy!

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Do you rebuild the distilled water? If so, what profile/beer are you shooting for?

herbler said:

Do you rebuild the distilled water? If so, what profile/beer are you shooting for?

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I build it up per beer to best meet each beers water chemistry needs.

Hello fellow Tucsonans! I've been using Safeway brand spring water for my all grain brews because of the chlorine/chloramine I don't have a charcoal filter.

Do you guys know what Tucson Water uses chlorine or chloramine? If it's chloramine, howtobrew says that Campden tablets can be used to remove it.

JuanMoore said:

I'm pretty sure I have the details for zones 1 and 3 around here somewhere if anybody needs them.

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I'm in zone 1. Please share!

its strange that you actually had to ask for it, the water utilities in phoenix include a copy of the quarterly report with every bill in the mail...

Are all Tucsonans going to be at the Tucson Homebrew Club meeting on Tuesday the 12th?

saq said:

Are all Tucsonans going to be at the Tucson Homebrew Club meeting on Tuesday the 12th?

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I'm not a member of our homebrew club. Have heard mixed results about it. You a member? What do you think of it?

I'm a member. They did some reorganization last year with a new leadership group and there was a huge improvement in meeting quality. I go every month and theres usually a good crowd there. Some very good brewers are members of the club.

They won't get after you too hard if you attend the meeting without being a member, but if you start to participate you should pony up. Give it a shot I say.

Sounds interesting. Where do you all meet? Last time I heard was the Boondocks.

Yep, Boondocks at 7pm. Normally its the first Tuesday of the year, but January is a rough time to do that so we change that meeting to the second Tuesday. I'll be there, my name is Aaron and I'll be bringing Hopinator

saq said:

Yep, Boondocks at 7pm. Normally its the first Tuesday of the year, but January is a rough time to do that so we change that meeting to the second Tuesday. I'll be there, my name is Aaron and I'll be bringing Hopinator

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Yeah Aaron, I'm actually gonna make this one! I'll look for you. Hopinator... sounds cool. I wish I had some samples to bring, but everything is pretty green still. I did'nt brew through the summer this year and just got back on track again. New year's resolutions and all!

I got a keg cutting jig I can bring if anyone needs to use. Hope to meet y'all there. Darren.

Back on topic... Chlorine level in last mailing was:
1.1 mg/L

To ignorant to know what this means, but I like the suggestion to leave the water in buckets to gas off. My un-refined palate cannot taste any goofy-nees from my beers as far a water goes. I just want to learn more.

Any general suggestions you folks have with using local water is welcome. I've been told the mineral content is similar to Burton on Trent and that lends well to IPAs and pales.

Hey guys, i live in tucson also. Anyone have the water profile for the 85713 zip code? I'm not sure what zone that is.

kozydogg said:

Hey guys, i live in tucson also. Anyone have the water profile for the 85713 zip code? I'm not sure what zone that is.

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The profile I posted was an average for the water dept over a year, so hardly accurate!

http://www.ci.tucson.az.us/water/

If you fish around on the site, there is a link to the last report that has a map of the different zones. Unfourtunately, specific levels that we are interested aren't posted. The reply I got from the city just gives me a basic idea of where to begin. Of course a lab analysis of a sample would be much more accurate... I'm just not there yet for my brewing capabilities.

Come to the Tuesday meeting at Boondock's on 1st.

Darren.

saq said:

Yep, Boondocks at 7pm. Normally its the first Tuesday of the year, but January is a rough time to do that so we change that meeting to the second Tuesday. I'll be there, my name is Aaron and I'll be bringing Hopinator

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I'll be there. If I get my don't-need-no-stinking-beer-gun put together this weekend, I'll bring a few of my chocolate oatmeal stout (see link in my sig).

Wish i could go. Won't be in town though. Maybe next month, also by then I should have about 5 different beers to bring if I make it.


Oh, and I have a mac and that map on the tucson water site won't work for me. I live pretty close to the Kino and 22nd intersection...if anyone is willing to look up what section that is?

Kino and 22nd is zone 9, but it's very close to the border for zone 4.

I'm out of town til next week, but will look for the zone 1 numbers when I get home, and post them here as soon as I find them.

About the Tucson homebrew club, I've sent at least 6 e-mails inquiring about membership with no response. I got a contact number from the guys at Brew Your Own, left a couple voice mails, and no response again. I tried to stop in for a meeting only to find out it was being held at another location that month. I think I've given up unless someone can convince me it's really worth it.

Juan,
Well you know where this months is. Next tuesday, 7pm at Boondocks. Come and see what you think.

saq said:

I don't brew with Tucson water because of how wildly it varies and a lot of times it has chlorine/chloramines in it. Sup Tucson people!

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I've been buying about 5 gallons of bottled water for my mash, but then i used unfiltered city water for my sparge. I've been putting in 5.2 in both the mash and the sparge. I have had no idea what my water profile/ph has been . I've just been assuming I'm hitting a 5.2 ph because of the 5.2 additive.

I'm finally getting around to improving my water. I've downloaded the EZ spreadsheet and have bought all the types of salts.

My question is, should I just continue buying bottled distilled water for BOTH my mash and sparge (pricey tho ain't it?) and build up? Or should I buy a filter and use city water and build based on that water. My problem with that solution is that I don't know/can't find/don't have the time and money to send in a Ward sample (and I'm only in Tucson for 4 more months) to find out my water profile.

Would it just be easier for me to buy distilled water? If I do, could I use the bottled water for the mash and then city water for the sparge? Or would that just completely undo anything I did for the mash (ph and salts wise).

Also, if I do end up sticking with distilled water, where is the cheapest place to get it? (in bulk i assume?...). I've been just buying at Fry's.

Thanks!

I've not experimented with the many different vendor distilled water sources because you don't know how "distilled" it is. I buy water from Water Street Station (theres one on Grant & Country club and I think First and Roger?). Its about $0.70/gal and it comes with a water chemistry report. They update it frequently and there usually isn't much of a change. The highest I've seen is 7ppm sodium and the lowest I've seen is 2ppm sodium. Thats it!
I buy 10g of water for my 5g batch size, treat the whole thing, and use it for strike, any other infusions and sparge.

saq said:

I've not experimented with the many different vendor distilled water sources because you don't know how "distilled" it is. I buy water from Water Street Station (theres one on Grant & Country club and I think First and Roger?). Its about $0.70/gal and it comes with a water chemistry report. They update it frequently and there usually isn't much of a change. The highest I've seen is 7ppm sodium and the lowest I've seen is 2ppm sodium. Thats it!
I buy 10g of water for my 5g batch size, treat the whole thing, and use it for strike, any other infusions and sparge.

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ok cool. thanks!

I couldn't find the numbers, so I stopped in at the water dept this morning. Here's the profile for sample point 238, which is in Continental Ranch.

Calcium = 76.8 ppm
Magnesium = 11.18 ppm
Bicarbonate / Alkalinity = 191 ppm
Sulfate = 138 ppm
Sodium = 88 ppm
Chloride = 64.4 ppm
pH = 7.5 S. U.

That's averages for the last year. They said the nimbers fluctuate a fair amount in July and August from the monsoons, but are pretty stable the rest of the year. Hope this is helpful, and sorry it took so long.

Talked to the ppl at the water department also. Here is the data for point 902 (Zone 9):

Calcium = 71.50 ppm
Magnesium = 9.0 ppm
Sodium = 62.5 ppm
Chloride = 73.75 ppm
Sulfate = 152.5 ppm
pH = 7.8 S. U.

Hope it helps

JuanMoore said:

I couldn't find the numbers, so I stopped in at the water dept this morning. Here's the profile for sample point 238, which is in Continental Ranch.

Calcium = 76.8 ppm
Magnesium = 11.18 ppm
Bicarbonate / Alkalinity = 191 ppm
Sulfate = 138 ppm
Sodium = 88 ppm
Chloride = 64.4 ppm
pH = 7.5 S. U.

That's averages for the last year. They said the nimbers fluctuate a fair amount in July and August from the monsoons, but are pretty stable the rest of the year. Hope this is helpful, and sorry it took so long.

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They didn't provide me with bicarbonate/alkalinity, do you think (or anyone else) that I could use 191 ppm from point 238 for point 902?

kozydogg said:

They didn't provide me with bicarbonate/alkalinity, do you think (or anyone else) that I could use 191 ppm from point 238 for point 902?

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The numbers between the two sites are all over the place. I don't think you can assume anything.

191 is also the average for the whole system, so it would probably get you close, but saq is right, it does vary a lot. I'd call again and get the bicarb levels for your area.

kozydogg said:

Talked to the ppl at the water department also. Here is the data for point 902 (Zone 9):

Calcium = 71.50 ppm
Magnesium = 9.0 ppm
Sodium = 62.5 ppm
Chloride = 73.75 ppm
Sulfate = 152.5 ppm
pH = 7.8 S. U.

Hope it helps

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Here are the most recent numbers I got:


Calcium = 58 mg/l on 12/10/09
Chlorine = 0.64 mg/l on 12/10/09
Magnesium = 7.4 mg/l on 12/10/09
Sodium = 55 mg/l on 12/10/09
Chloride = 72 mg/l on 12/10/09
Sulfate = 144 mg/l on 12/10/09
Bicarbonate Alkalinity = 104 mg/l on 12/10/09
pH = 8.02 S. U. on 12/10/09

Couple Q's:

should I use these numbers or the year's average? (both zone 9)

for the bicarbonate alkalinity, on the EZ spreadsheet do I click under bicarbonate or alkalinity?

mg/l = ppm right?

mg/l does = ppm.
You can express alkalinity a few different ways. If you express alkalinity as bicarbonate you can do it in mg/l or ppm. So yes use the bicarbonate figures.

Unless you know what you actually start with you don't know what to actually modify. This is the MAJOR reason I don't bother with tucson city water. If you don't know what you are modifying you don't know what you end up with.

1) I'd use the annual avg, unless you want to call and get updated numbers every month.

2) I think you put it under bicarbonate (HCO3). I think the alkalinity on the spreadsheet refers to total alkalinity (CaCO3).

3)Yes

Well I appreciate all the interest and insight into the fluctuations in our local swill.
I've gleaned that the general consensus is that it's a good practice to either:

Gas off the chlorine from the water and make water adjustments to the average readings per Chimone...

Or, get some water from Water St Station with the anaylsis sheet and build it up from there per Saq's advise.

I'll try to do some type of experiment using both of the methods in the coming months and post the results.

I'm intrigued with the mystery of water and how it affects the outcome. Maybe two identical batches using extract to eliminate the variables of my goofy all-grain seat-of-the-pants method. Using both methods of course.

If any of you Old Pueblo types have tried this... post up!

Dont count on either water reports or water analysis if Tuscon is anything like Phoenix. We have many wells and a couple different aquifers. It is very common for the water dept. to "mix and match" at anytime during the year. They might be drawing form one source at one time and mixing from others at another time without a known schedule.

Just started brewing, got my first batch in the secondary.

The guys over at BYO suggested boiling the city water for 30 mins then use that. I've heard that boiling water will harden it up. What do you all think of this method?

Also, letting it sit out overnight to let the chlorine gas off makes sense, but do the chlorimides <sp?> stay behind?

Twofox said:

Just started brewing, got my first batch in the secondary.

The guys over at BYO suggested boiling the city water for 30 mins then use that. I've heard that boiling water will harden it up. What do you all think of this method?

Also, letting it sit out overnight to let the chlorine gas off makes sense, but do the chlorimides <sp?> stay behind?

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I don't believe boiling is necessary, BUT I may try the gas-off method suggested next time I brew.

I have brewed many a beer with water right out of the tap. I believe my beer tastes pretty good.
Saq has suggested other ways to treat the water and after meeting him I would say he is much more advanced than myself. I'll get there eventually.

Welcome to the forum. Get your process down and then work on refining it. If your water (1st batch) tastes good, try brewing with it.

Thanks Herbler.

I boiled the water for the first batch. Had a grain oversteeping/tannin issue I think so waiting for it to age.

heading over to the homebrew club meeting tonite so hopefully I'll get some more opinions on the Old Pueblo Agua