I think I messed up - (pitching rate)

I usually use a starter or liquid yeast. I got lazy today and pitched 11 gram of nottingham danstar dry yeast into 5 gal of 70 degree temp- 1.070 gravity wort. This is my spiced/apple xmas ale, I hope everything turns out OK and the yeast does it's job, but I have a feeling that I should have hydrated the yeast and now I may have underpitched.

On a positive note, I think this is going to be one great beer if it works out...fresh ginger, honey, cinnamon sticks, whole nutmeg, whole cloves, 5 pounds chopped apples,l caramel/crystal malt, a few flaked oats and four different kinds of hopps added at 15 minute intervals to the boil..I hope I didn't ruin it!

Anybody want to offer some words of encouragement?? LOL

If you were going to underpitch, you prob know the 11 g offers th emost cells for straight from packet pitching. If you're worried, dump a second one in.

That aside, the recipe looks pretty sweet (no pun intended)! Not sure how the hops will play against all those strong flavors, but could end up delicious.

11g is good. It's the 5g packets you need to rehydrate.

Grizzlybrew said:

If you were going to underpitch, you prob know the 11 g offers th emost cells for straight from packet pitching. If you're worried, dump a second one in.

That aside, the recipe looks pretty sweet (no pun intended)! Not sure how the hops will play against all those strong flavors, but could end up delicious.

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here is the exact recipe

3 pounds Amber Liquid Malt Extract

3 pounds Amber Dry Malt Extract

1 pound 60ºL Crystal Malt

4 oz toasted oats

2 pounds minnesota clover honey

1 oz cascade hops (60 minutes)
1 oz northern brewer hops (30 minutes)
1/2 oz williamette hops (aroma end of boil)
3 cinnamon sticks (60 minutes)
1 whole nutmeg roughly crushed (60 minutes)
4 oz fresh ginger rough chopped (60 minutes)
2 whole cloves (60 minutes)

5 # chopped tart apples added to primary fermenter

11g nottingham danstar pitched directly into wort






I am going to let this ferment for two weeks or so and then rack to secondary where I am going to add crushed peaches or more apples. I am also considering 1oz cascade dry hop, but I haven't made up my mind yet. I plan on letting this sit in secondary until Dec 10th or so, then prime and bottle to distribute/drink at xmas time. I think I have a really good recipe here, I hope I didn't screw it up by not reading the yeast directions! I usually use 6 g muntons dry and it starts quick pitched directly into wort..didn't know I had to rehydrate some! Got myself a 50 dollar beer here, I hope my family and friends enjoy it.

Update: It has been 16 hours since I pitched and the airlock hasn't even moved one bit. It doesn't even look like any pressure is building. If after 48 hours there aren't any signs of life I am going to sprinkle in a pack of coopers ale yeast that I have lying around.

That is one intense recipe...

I think you should be good on the yeast though. 11g is a fair amount assuming the yeast was in good condition. I got a Wyeast packet that was outside in 70+ degree weather for a week or so and I pitched without a starter and it turned out fine.

Maybe just some words of encouragement for the little yeasties will help out.

I'm beginning to question how necessary re-hydration is. The wort will re-hydrate the yeast before it actually gets to work anyways.

petep1980 said:

I'm beginning to question how necessary re-hydration is. The wort will re-hydrate the yeast before it actually gets to work anyways.

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While this statement is accurate you have to remember the main purpose of making a starter is to ensure the yeast are good and alive.

A secondary advantage of a starter is it is active when yo pitch it which greatly reduces lag time to a few hours versus a few days (in some cases).

petep1980 said:

I'm beginning to question how necessary re-hydration is. The wort will re-hydrate the yeast before it actually gets to work anyways.

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I re hydrated a package of nearly 1 year old dried yeast on this pale ale I did. 7 hours later it was fermenting just fine. I would never recommend skipping this step as I feel it is very important.

My last brew with nottingham 6 gram packet, I dumped the packet directly into a 2 litre starter without rehydrating and I had activity within 12 hours, and when I pitched it my beer was in healthy fermentation in less than 4 hours. I am assuming things will be OK, and if I leave the lid on the fermenter for a while and let the yeast do their thing. I am actually considering getting a 6 pack of a bottle conditioned microbrew EPA or something and harvesting some of those yeast to help my cause!

My yeast is from a bad Batch:

Batch #1081140118V

That would explain the slow activity. Well, the good news is you should still get fermentation.

I hope so! I actually had to dig through my garbage to find the yeast packet. Sure enough! It's from the bad batch. THe good news is that I am sending it back and the rumor is that they are not only replacing the bad packet but sending extra ones to compensate, so that is nice. I just hope my beer comes along!

I have one more question, how long can I let the wert sit in the fermenter with no activity before repitching? I am planning on repitching tomorow night, after 48 hours, if there is no activity. Do you think this is a good plan? Man, I don't want to lose this one!

You should be all right. Even the "bad batch" yeast were working; the cell counts were low in that production run, IIRC, so they're slow starters.

Just get more yeast in there as fast as you can.

Cheers,

Bob

Rehydration is very important for getting the most out of your dry yeast. It's not about "waking them up," it's about getting them acclimated to a wet environment in which they can exchange nutrients across their membranes. If you pitch dry yeast directly into wort, they are immediately flooded with nutrients because their cell walls aren't adapted to the environment. This ends up killing a large portion of the yeast... not all of them, but some (maybe 50%). So you actually end up under-pitching.

All this is coming from Jamil's shows.

I totally understand, and I made a big mistake there. I will most certainly rehydrate properly next time and, even though it may be overkill, also use a starter that I make 2-3 days in advance.

Today I am going to throw in a few packets of coopers ale yeast and get this party started!

By the OP I think you may be a little mistaken.Liquid yeasts should always need a starter.Even if it's a pitchable tube.Dry yeasts have about 2x to 4x the amount of yeast cells and don't require a starter.The notty recall being an exception.

Thanks for all of the advice fellas! I just got my first airlock bubbles an hour ago. About 48 hours after pitching. Regardless, I rehydrated two 6 gram packs of Munton's ale yeast and pitched them into the wert. That should speed things along nicely! I also bought four extra packs of coopers ale yeast while I was at my LHBS so that I have instant access to yeast.

...now what to do with the two yeast starters I farmed from a local ale I drank yesterday? Looks like I'll just have to brew again this week! sweet

Joos said:

By the OP I think you may be a little mistaken.Liquid yeasts should always need a starter.Even if it's a pitchable tube.Dry yeasts have about 2x to 4x the amount of yeast cells and don't require a starter.The notty recall being an exception.

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No starters for dry yeast, just re-hydration.

Anybody have any clue how two different types of yeast pitched in the same wort will react? Nottingham Danstar Dry and Munton and Filson Ale Yeast. I bet I get good attenation now!

I shouldn't think anything negative will happen. Muntons yeast is not something I recommend - it's designed for high-adjunct-sugar kit-in-a-tin brews, not all-grain (or even all-malt) wort. But the underattenuation of that yeast ought to be taken care of by the vigorous ferment of the Notty.

That is, if they Notty isn't choked out by the Muntons. You never know; the Muntons may do its job and drop out before full attenuation is reached, and there might be enough Notty left floating about to attenuate further once the competing organism is gone.

Bob

Thank you for all of the advice and encouragement. I think I should be OK as well. I am getting a nice strong fermentation now and the temp in the fermenter is a constant 68 degrees. There are alot of fermentables outside of the malt based, there is 2 pounds of honey and 5# of apples, so I am hoping maybe the Munton will help out with those as well. It may be a good combo.

Regardless, I have a few starters going that I harvested from commercial beer just sitting in the wings, if I haven't got good attenation after 1.5 weeks or so, I will likely transfer to secondary to get it off of the trub and then pitch a small starter in there to finish the job.

Holy fermentation! overnight it went from 67 to 72 degrees in the ferementer and the airlock pretty much can't keep up. The notty was just starting to bubble when I put the muntons in, now I think they are both slurping up all the fermentables ( 6 # malt extract, 2# honey, 5# apples) the smell from the fermenter is glorious. I will be sure to let you all know how this one turns out. I think I am going to add 2# crushed apricot and possibly 1/2 cascade (dry hop) to secondary fermenter. Might as well swing for the fences. OG = 1.069 or so, if these yeasts can pull it down below 1.015 I would be perfectly happy with it. I bet that is wishfull thinking.

Well, I pitched the notty in it on saturday, pitched 12g of munton's ale on it Monday, and racked to secondary today.

The notty/monton's combo pulled it from 1.070 to 1.018! I racked to secondary because I had 5# chopped apples in the primary and I wanted the beer off the fruit. I then added 32 oz organic apple cider to secondary and will allow that to ferment out another week, where I will then transfer to a third glass carboy for it's final 2 month conditioning.

wildwest450 said:

No starters for dry yeast, just re-hydration.

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thats what I said.maybe I'm confused/drunk

I racked to secondary onto 32 oz upastuerized apple juice about an hour ago, full blown fermentation is back on again. This is going to be a tasy beverage...I snuck a little tast from what was left in the primary fermenter after transfer. It was very green in that not fully fermented , young flavor..but nice apple/spice aroma with a hint of malt I could make out. Pretty good. I am considering a dry hop in the third/final fermentation to kick it up a notch. I am not sure how well the intense hop aroma will marry with apple and spice aroma though.


I also tasted a piece of apple from the primary after the transfter, it tasted like every feremntable sugar was sucked out of it...quite dissgusting. If I am already at 6.5% ABV...I think this rig is going to hit 9-10% by the time it is all said and done. HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!