It's been 2 weeks since I bottled it. I tried one last night. Tasty, but still flat...I know the yeast must be having a hard time fermenting the priming sugar with all that alcohol. Maybe I should have re-pitched some fresh yeast before bottling it.
Clone Beer Dog Fish Head - Midas Touch
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chrismcnally
Member
I also brewed a Midas Touch clone but from a recipe you can find online at BYO magaine. Here is a link to my 4.5 gallon version. Please note that instead of sugar in this recipe you should use 23 fluid oz or 2 lbs of Alexander's Muscat Grape Concentrate:
http://hopville.com/recipe/362422/home-brew/midas-touch-w-muscat-grape-45-gal
I used the Trappist High Gravity yeast, which I think did fine in my bottle carbonation, thought it took a while, more than 2 weeks, closer to 4. I did add a gram of champagne yeast at bottling, however I think it was probably too old to have done any good. I bottle primed with honey, 4.5 oz by weight. According to my notes I only bottled about 3.5 gallons.
Early results are that the thing is very wine like and still too young tasting. I think the grape flavor, or chardonnay like flavor, is too strong and needs to mellow. On the other hand, I still love it. I served it at Thanksgiving and Christmas, but I don't expect it to be really ready until March.
I purchased a DFH Midas Touch bottle and stored it with my homebrew and will taste both soon to see how it compares. I'll let you guys know.
http://hopville.com/recipe/362422/home-brew/midas-touch-w-muscat-grape-45-gal
I used the Trappist High Gravity yeast, which I think did fine in my bottle carbonation, thought it took a while, more than 2 weeks, closer to 4. I did add a gram of champagne yeast at bottling, however I think it was probably too old to have done any good. I bottle primed with honey, 4.5 oz by weight. According to my notes I only bottled about 3.5 gallons.
Early results are that the thing is very wine like and still too young tasting. I think the grape flavor, or chardonnay like flavor, is too strong and needs to mellow. On the other hand, I still love it. I served it at Thanksgiving and Christmas, but I don't expect it to be really ready until March.
I purchased a DFH Midas Touch bottle and stored it with my homebrew and will taste both soon to see how it compares. I'll let you guys know.
chrismcnally
Member
OK so tonight I compared a DFH Midas Touch with my recipe, with the Trappist High gravity yeast and all grain. It is now about 5 months after the brew day.
color. The DFH is almost orange, while mine was yellow.
aroma. The DFH was aged a couple of months. It had a nice honeysuckle aroma. was it from the saffron? type of grape? or Honey? Unknown. Mine was, I think apple blossom honey. Might use wildflower honey next time. The aromas were very different. Mine has a bit of a musky scent which I think is the yeast.
I would def cut back on the muscat grape concentrate. 2 lbs for the 4.5 gallon recipe was to much.
Mine had a bit of a musty flavor from the trappist hight gravity yeast, or at least the way I fermented that yeast. Perhaps 70 degrees was too high. I think the DFH had a clean flavor that comes from a different yeast.
Flavor: The DFH is sweeter. There is some alc on the end. The one I have is too grape like, a little chardonnay like. Not sweet though, not at all, very dry.
I like my brew, but I think it's more of a new wine flavor. I think the DFH is better, has a nice clean taste and a superior, blended flavor and aroma.
color. The DFH is almost orange, while mine was yellow.
aroma. The DFH was aged a couple of months. It had a nice honeysuckle aroma. was it from the saffron? type of grape? or Honey? Unknown. Mine was, I think apple blossom honey. Might use wildflower honey next time. The aromas were very different. Mine has a bit of a musky scent which I think is the yeast.
I would def cut back on the muscat grape concentrate. 2 lbs for the 4.5 gallon recipe was to much.
Mine had a bit of a musty flavor from the trappist hight gravity yeast, or at least the way I fermented that yeast. Perhaps 70 degrees was too high. I think the DFH had a clean flavor that comes from a different yeast.
Flavor: The DFH is sweeter. There is some alc on the end. The one I have is too grape like, a little chardonnay like. Not sweet though, not at all, very dry.
I like my brew, but I think it's more of a new wine flavor. I think the DFH is better, has a nice clean taste and a superior, blended flavor and aroma.
jerzeedevil13
Active Member
Interesting recipe. I saw this one awhile back and kinda put it on the back burner but might have to give this a shot just to have something with a high ABV% for the summer.
As far as the Saffron, as I was re-reading this thread it does add certain characteristics. Some people mention that they didn't notice or taste it but it does make a difference.
From Wiki
"Saffron's aroma is often described by connoisseurs as reminiscent of metallic honey with grassy or hay-like notes, while its taste has also been noted as hay-like and sweet. Saffron also contributes a luminous yellow-orange colouring to foods."
If you add too much it will definitely affect the color, more yellow the more you add.
My sister in-law was on a business trip to India and snuck some high grade saffron back to the states. I've been using it mostly in risottos, the taste is very subtle but you do notice if you make a rissoto without it. Besides the thread which is the best type it also comes in powder form. The price range I've been reading about is probably the type and grade of saffron you guys are buying. The quality of saffron probably makes a much bigger difference when you are cooking with it rather than brewing so I would go with the cheaper versions. As far as the beer, you might not notice any flavor from it because the hops will overpower it but to be true to the recipe I think you have to put it in there.
Putting this on my "things I wanna brew" list.
As far as the Saffron, as I was re-reading this thread it does add certain characteristics. Some people mention that they didn't notice or taste it but it does make a difference.
From Wiki
"Saffron's aroma is often described by connoisseurs as reminiscent of metallic honey with grassy or hay-like notes, while its taste has also been noted as hay-like and sweet. Saffron also contributes a luminous yellow-orange colouring to foods."
If you add too much it will definitely affect the color, more yellow the more you add.
My sister in-law was on a business trip to India and snuck some high grade saffron back to the states. I've been using it mostly in risottos, the taste is very subtle but you do notice if you make a rissoto without it. Besides the thread which is the best type it also comes in powder form. The price range I've been reading about is probably the type and grade of saffron you guys are buying. The quality of saffron probably makes a much bigger difference when you are cooking with it rather than brewing so I would go with the cheaper versions. As far as the beer, you might not notice any flavor from it because the hops will overpower it but to be true to the recipe I think you have to put it in there.
Putting this on my "things I wanna brew" list.
The (real) expensive stuff is from a plant called the saffron crocus. The cheaper stuff, while it appears to be the same, is actually from the safflower plant. This is why they have very different characteristics. For anyone shopping for this spice, online is the way to go for saving money. Buy only from a reputable spice purveyor and I personally would recommend Spanish saffron for quality reasons.
bknifefight
Well-Known Member
4 weeks?!?!?! Let's see if I can wait some more. I like instant gratification.
You might want to stay away from high gravity brews then. I think my batch of this took 6 - 8 weeks before I was happy with the carbonation and longer than that before I thought it hit it's peak.
I guess I'll have to learn the virtue of patience because I love high gravity beer
. I'm thinking about Aprihop and 90 Minute IPA next. Still deciding which order...Anyhow, I have some lighter beer in different stages to help me forget about the stronger ones that take longer to be in a drinkable state.
I'm drinking a 20 oz bottle of this even though it's still under-carbed. Gotta tell you this is one tasty brew. I am feeling a little woozy though thanks to the high alcohol%. So anyway, I was writing this to make a confession: This was the very first beer I've brewed, except for one Mr. Beer batch, but that doesn't count. The next confession is I've never actually tried the original DFH Midas Touch before. I really don't know if I should, since I like the one I brewed so much.
Cheers!
Cheers!
bknifefight
Well-Known Member
Your first real beer was 9% ABV, you're quite the ambitious brewer!
EBrewFro
Member
Just ordered all the ingredients for this brew, can't wait for brew day!
You know,I was going to buy my wife the Cooper's OS lager kit with brewing sugar she liked so much. But I may just put this ingredient list together & give her that as a present for her b-day instead.
She likes'em a little on the malty side. She likes honey/blueberry wheat's as well. Not to mention ancient history,fossils,digging dyno bones. This sort of thing is right up our alley! I may just pick it all up Friday.
She likes'em a little on the malty side. She likes honey/blueberry wheat's as well. Not to mention ancient history,fossils,digging dyno bones. This sort of thing is right up our alley! I may just pick it all up Friday.
Put this one in the fermenter last Tuesday. I came out to an OG of 1.090. I think it might have been because I had 8.3 lbs of extract in all and just put it all in. I don't know the math to figure out if .3 lbs could account for that extra gravity, but whatever. Also my LHBS was out of Simcoe so I substituted in Falconer's Flight and I couldn't find muscat grape juice concentrate anywhere and threw in a liter of just regular white grape juice concentrate. Gonna let it hang out in the fermenter for another 3 weeks instead of doing a secondary. I'd rather not mess with it if I don't have to.
bknifefight
Well-Known Member
Don't worry if you couldn't get simcoe. Since it's all bittering, any hop would work just adjust it to get the right IBUs.
EBrewFro
Member
My brew of this has been in the fermentor for a week now. I'm about to transfer to the secondary. I used 8lbs. Light DME and because of what seems to be a nationwide lack of simcoe hops right now I just used some left over Northern Brewer hops from my last brew. Oh and I did a 3.5 gallon boil and topped off to 5 gallons in the fermentor, I mixed the solution very well and got a good OG so it's definitely not a 6 gallon batch. My OG was 1.0865 (i put the 5 there because it wasn't quite 1.087 but almost). I used a small pinch of saffron, roughly 20 threads worth. I was able to get the proper grape juice concentrate from the wine section of northernbrewer.com.
I didn't put a blow off hose on it but I did have a little bubble out of my airlock the night after adding the grape juice. No explosion though. My primary is a 6 gallon fermentor so maybe the extra headspace helped out there.
I'll keep everyone posted on how she turns out.
I didn't put a blow off hose on it but I did have a little bubble out of my airlock the night after adding the grape juice. No explosion though. My primary is a 6 gallon fermentor so maybe the extra headspace helped out there.
I'll keep everyone posted on how she turns out.
I am going to brew this up, but want to do AG to save some money. Beer smith converting it at 12 lbs of 2 Row and that is it. Then it says 2.5lbs of honey.
Anyone else think there should be anything else added? Seems like a really basic recipe, but I guess since you are only using light extract it would be.
Anyone else think there should be anything else added? Seems like a really basic recipe, but I guess since you are only using light extract it would be.
bknifefight
Well-Known Member
You're right on to just sub out the extract with enough 2-row to get the gravity. The honey increase may be from a mash temp setting in Beer Smith or something.
bjl110
Well-Known Member
Just had this for the fist time tonight. I thought it was ok, but the SWMBO LOVED it. As I'm sure most of you know, it benefits your obsession greatly if it can also appease her . I skimmed most of the thread and didn't see this discussed, but has anyone tried this with simple white grape concentrate (maybe welch's)? I'm poor and a cheap ass, so spending $4 instead of $15 appeals to me . (BTW: as long as it is decently close, that is what matters. SWMBO probably won't be able to tell much of a difference).
Further, has anyone tried this with a higher carb level? Maybe it was just my pack, but I feel like if this was more carbed it would be a better beverage.
Thanks for you suggestions!
. I skimmed most of the thread and didn't see this discussed, but has anyone tried this with simple white grape concentrate (maybe welch's)? I'm poor and a cheap ass, so spending $4 instead of $15 appeals to me . (BTW: as long as it is decently close, that is what matters. SWMBO probably won't be able to tell much of a difference).Further, has anyone tried this with a higher carb level? Maybe it was just my pack, but I feel like if this was more carbed it would be a better beverage.
Thanks for you suggestions!
I'm not sure you'd have the right sugars in the "simple white grape concentrate" you're talking about using. If you get it from a wine kit, then yes, but then that'd be more expensive than a can of the right stuff. When you say Welch's, do you mean the frozen kind? If so, be advised that very little of the ingredients in that are actually grape juice. The muscat grape juice in the DFH version isn't just for flavoring, it's mainly for fermentable sugars to add gravity.
EBrewFro
Member
It's been bottled for 3 weeks to the day. My carb levels are still low, very little head when initially poured which quickly dissipates. There is a constant release of bubbles which indicates it is carbonating just hasn't gotten to where it should be yet.
The color is a rich golden with almost an amber tinge. Probably a skosh too much saffron. Very clear beer, can see perfectly through it. I would have assumed some kind of filtering process was done other than just secondary fermenting if I were evaluating someone else's beer.
On the nose it's got a bit of an estery smell that blends with the smell of the grape juice. Other than that it's malty sweetness, not sure I can even pick up on the hops.
The mouthfeel is smooth but I can feel the alcohol down my throat. The taste is very malty sweet as would be expected with a slightly dry finish.
I think once it's carbonated fully the harshness of the alcohol feel will go away. Also, I think this beer is going to need to age at least two months before all the sweet flavors have mellowed and blended.
This beer isn't where I want it to be yet but I'm very anxious. I'll post another tasting review in a month-ish. Oh, my FG was 1.015 making this a ~9.5% beer
cygnus2048
Member
Hello guys, new to this forum but have been brewing for a little over a year now. Midas is one of my favorite beers and finally gave it a try about a month ago. I thought I would share my results. I used the recipe verbatim from the Extreme Brewing book and all my SG's here are shown temp adjusted. My OG came in at 1.077 so I did not hit the expected 1.086 but I thought that number includes the muscat which was a later addition. I found some information on the web which said a 46oz can of Alexanders Concentrate will produce a gravity of 1.080 - 1.090 in 1.5gal. I used 1 liter in 5.5gal so I figure it adds an additional 17 points to my gravity yielding an effective starting gravity of 1.094. If the FG is 1.026 as the book says, the ABV should be almost exactly 9%. Now the 5oz of priming sugar will add another 0.5%, approximately, for a finished ABV of 9.5%.
I fermented in a temp-control chamber at 70F for both primary and secondary. When I racked to secondary my SG was 1.023, already below the expected 1.026, but not by much. However, after racking I did notice some resumed air-lock activity, albeit a slow bubble rate. I just bottled this past week and was very surprised that my FG was ~1.014. Including priming sugar this will come in at about 11.2%!!! I tasted it and it tastes very good already but definitely not as sweet as the real thing and the alcohol is more pronounced which seems to back up the calculations.
So my question to any of you is... Do I have incredible-hulk yeast or something here??? I used the Wyeast 1056 and wasn't expecting this kind of attenuation. Why did it ferment out so dry? Also, what could I have done to stop it at 1.026? Re-heat it a little to kill the yeast? I know filtering would work too to remove the yeast but then I couldn't bottle condition. Thanks for any insight.
I fermented in a temp-control chamber at 70F for both primary and secondary. When I racked to secondary my SG was 1.023, already below the expected 1.026, but not by much. However, after racking I did notice some resumed air-lock activity, albeit a slow bubble rate. I just bottled this past week and was very surprised that my FG was ~1.014. Including priming sugar this will come in at about 11.2%!!! I tasted it and it tastes very good already but definitely not as sweet as the real thing and the alcohol is more pronounced which seems to back up the calculations.
So my question to any of you is... Do I have incredible-hulk yeast or something here??? I used the Wyeast 1056 and wasn't expecting this kind of attenuation. Why did it ferment out so dry? Also, what could I have done to stop it at 1.026? Re-heat it a little to kill the yeast? I know filtering would work too to remove the yeast but then I couldn't bottle condition. Thanks for any insight.
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
I have found my next brew! This one will be brewed in about 3 weeks!
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
Finding and pricing all the ingredients. The DME I think I need is Muntons DME light, would this be the correct choice?
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
i'm surprised that they use/recommend 1056 for this beer. I have some and i would have thought that they used a Belgian yeast. My wife bought me a 4 pack for xmas, and at first i didn't like it, but it grows on you
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
Just had my daughter price Spanish Saffron at the grocery store she works at....$20 for .06oz
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
Just had my daughter price Spanish Saffron at the grocery store she works at....$20 for .06oz
If you live close to a Trader Joes, I believe they sell saffron threads for around 5 or 6 bucks. I'm not sure how many, but it would be more than enough for this brew
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
TY I'll check it out.
cygnus2048
Member
I think the recipe in Extreme brewing is for Liquid malt extract. If you are using DME I think you should multiply by 0.8.
I finally tasted mine tonight after two weeks bottle conditioning. I did a side-by-side comparison with a genuine 2010 Midas and I must admit I was disappointed. While I thought it tasted very good, it did not hold up to the real Midas. The taste of my clone compared to the genuine was pretty close, however, the nose was totally different. The original had strong sense of honey and grapes while mine was much more subdued. Mine is still under-carbonated and if it truly clocks in at ~11% then I'm not sure the 1056 yeast-ies can really finish the job. I did a gravity check on the genuine compared to mine and measured ~1.020 vs. 1.014. Not much difference there but I definitely notice more alcohol and less sweetness mine compared to the genuine.
In general, it is a good beer and I like it. If it carbonates completely I will be satisfied. While not the genuine, it is still good and I foresee me trying again in the future. I suspect that my grape-concentrate addition fully fermented while in the original they stop fermentation early and preserve a lot more of the muscat character and sweetness while preventing it from becoming so dry. Hopefully time will only improve this beer.
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
HMM really...I thought I read a post some pages back that used liquid and was disappointed. I'll have to investigate, thanks for the heads up.
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
You are correct sir, ordering the items today!
DoubleAught
Well-Known Member
Looks like I can by a half a gram of saffron for 7 bucks. Is a half a gram enough?
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