Perlick 525 SS faucet leaks

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Yesfan said:
I bought my four from Adventures a few weeks ago. Fingers crossed.

is the leaks mainly with the O-rings? If so, does McMasters Carr have a part #? What about going with a O-ring?

On another note, what is the difference between the Perlick 525 and 575? I want to add more faucets to my kegerator (maybe 2-3 more), so just wondering about the differences.
Click to expand...

575 you can push back to create head.
 
milldoggy said:
I guess they call it a creamer
Click to expand...

I'm aware. But it's really a bit of a joke, as it not only doesn't do anything any 525 can't already do, but it adds a touchy faucet handle in both directions!

Score! ;)

Cheers!

[edit] I forgot to add: the tiny orifice in the 575 faucet lever is prone to clogging...
 
Well I read through this whole thread. Went to look at the mentioned VentMatic and find this. Sounds very similar to the Perlick issue.

"NOTICE:
VERSION CHANGE - 2013/10/15
We are now on "VentMatic 1.1". There has been a front seal change.
If you have purchased a VentMatic faucet before 10-22 and you have an issue with the front seal, please let us know. We will send you an updated front seal.

PARTS KIT: A parts kit is "in the works" and will be available by the end of November."
 
day_trippr said:
I'm aware. But it's really a bit of a joke, as it not only doesn't do anything any 525 can't already do, but it adds a touchy faucet handle in both directions!

Score! ;)

Cheers!

[edit] I forgot to add: the tiny orifice in the 575 faucet lever is prone to clogging...
Click to expand...

This is not my experience with my 575's. They've worked just fine for me. No clogging, no drips. The handles are not "touchy."
 
Spoke to Jeff at Perlick a little while ago.

The basic premise is that pressure pushes the ball against an O-Ring (item #3 if you're looking at the schematic) which stops beer from flowing through the tap.

This system works fine as long as two things are true:
-there is enough pressure to hold the ball against the O-Ring
-the O-Ring is not compacted in any manner

Now, over time by the nature of something having pressure on it the O-Ring in question will compact.

This is essentially the fatal flaw in the 525SS.

A few things were advised:

-Replace the O-Ring every six months
-Make sure the O-Ring isn't impacted in the little area it's supposed to be; make sure it can move a bit if you poke it with something like a toothpick or eyeglasses screwdriver
-Keep serving pressure to at least 12-13 psi

So, all in all, it's kind of annoying. The Flow Control faucets use the same mechanism as well.

Jeff is sending out replacement washers to me.
 
Yeah, the only time my 575's ever leaked was when I turned the pressure down to fill a growler, forgot to turn it back up and went out of town for a week. It was completely my fault.
 
I know it's a $0.15-0.20 oring from the LHBS, but is there any place that you can buy them in bulk? If I had 100 on hand, I'd swap them out all the time.
 
BBBF said:
I know it's a $0.15-0.20 oring from the LHBS, but is there any place that you can buy them in bulk? If I had 100 on hand, I'd swap them out all the time.
Click to expand...

I would assume McMaster Carr has 'em, but not sure what part # they are...

I get the rest of my kegging o-rings from them in bulk.
 
I know that a while back Perlick was replacing the 525SS with the 408 (I think that was the model). Being I didn't find that an exchange of my $40 faucet with a $20 one to be acceptable and I get it that it takes time to do a design change, I opted to just live with this.

Now that I see the new 630SS is out, has anyone out there tried to get them to replace their 525SS with the new 630SS? Ever since my 525SS leaked, dumping 2 gallons of beer all over the carpet, I just leave the liquid line disconnected on my kegs. It would be nice to get them replaced with something I could trust.
 
Just got off the phone with Perlick..... Grrrrr. I think the guy's name was Alan. Anyhow, I explained to him what the issue was and he put me on hold for a couple minutes. Once he came back he said that they had a meeting last week about this and that they were no longer replacing the 525SS faucets. They had said in that meeting that by now anyone who was having an issue, should have had them replaced and they not offering further support on this.

I explained to him that I knew that they were replacing them. However, I didn't bother with calling until now because back when I found out about the design flaw in December, the replacement was the 408 which I didn't deem a comparable product. Like I said why would I accept a $20 chrome plated brass faucet as a replacement for my SS $40 faucet. From discussions here I knew that the "replacement kit" didn't seem to address the issue and I would rather wait until the redesigned product was out before doing anything. Well that comparable replacement is now out now that I see the 630SS is out in stores. In the mean time I have been disconnecting my kegs as I do not trust the 525SS being hooked up when not being directly monitored.

He said that he understood what I was saying and that he would discuss the issue with people at Perlick and get back to me.

So I guess we will see what I find out.

If anyone else out there has been living with 525SS faucets with issues by disconnecting them as I have, I would recommend calling them sooner than later. I just happened to see that the new one was out and starting to show up in retailers. I will have to mention it at my local home brew club meeting this week.

I called the 1-800 number in the first post on this thread. They updated the menu and it is now Option 1 that took me to a person.
 
Someone's surely going to call their support line and give that a try.
You could be that Someone ;)

On a semi-related note, I received a full complement of O-rings intended for long-term maintenance of my half dozen 525SS faucets, and as a result I've come to realize the 525SS went through some evolutionary changes over its lifetime.

For example, the original large O-ring used to seal the spout on my Perls is larger in all dimensions than the O-rings I just received from Perlick.

As well, the faucet lever on my set has a round section in the shank where the new levers have a square profile - the former allowing the whole lever to rotate without restriction (save for the resistance provided by the faucet lever pivot ball O-rings), the latter preventing much if any rotation relative to the bearing cup (which has a rectangular opening for the lever).

And speaking of the bearing cup, mine are nylon, but what Perlick sells today are stainless steel.

A couple of summers ago there was a sudden rash of folks complaining about leaky Perls, while longer-term owners were feeling pretty darned good about their faucets (myself included in the latter group). I'm wondering if the O-ring change and/or the bearing cup change could have been related (the lever change seems unlikely to be contributory).

I'm a bit apprehensive about the O-ring change (I mean, there has to be an answer to why the Perls apparently got so cranky) so I'm conducting an experiment on one of my faucets to see if there's going to be a closure issue with the new O-rings. I stuck a seventh keg in my keezer with a gallon of water, swapped the lines from one of the beer kegs over, then pulled the corresponding faucet and swapped out the #3 O-ring. Initial results seem solid but I'm going to mess around with this over the next couple of days to see if it's touchy or reliable.

fwiw, I spent quite some time looking for dimensionally equivalent replacements for either the old or new "#3" O-ring and came up dry. There's a chance that both versions were custom made for Perlick...

Old Style #3: .67" OD, .40" ID, .140" thick
New Style #3: .635" OD, .375" ID, .135" thick

Cheers!

[edit] Just to be clear, I've been running these faucets for a few years now and they've been rock solid, never leak, always connected at 12psi...
 
Where does yours leak from? Is it where the gasket connects to the shank? I have some 525's that leak there, more like explode from there and I've left the beer line disconnected for that reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
jgarretson said:
Where does yours leak from? Is it where the gasket connects to the shank? I have some 525's that leak there, more like explode from there and I've left the beer line disconnected for that reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Click to expand...

Mine just won't seal up when dispensing. You hear where they should go from open to close and get a couple more drips. Mine will drip about 3-5 drips a second constantly, not stopping. I use the black caps on my faucets but it will blast them off and throw beer all over, then keep dripping. The latest thing I tried which seemed to have helped a bit was to take them apart, pull the main o-ring that the ball seals against, cleaning it all up, and coating the o-ring with keg lube. So far this seems to have helped a bit to where if I am going to have a couple I will leave a keg connected for a while. I still have lost all faith in leaving them overnight or while I am away. I have had too many times where I got them sealed up after messing with them, only to come back 10-15 minutes later or so to just catch my drip try before it overflows. If we are not using it I disconnect the liquid lines. A pain but it is the only way I can trust it. The faucets sit wide open, capped with the black covers and keg disconnected. I should add that I tried backing off the top nut 1/4 turn but it really hasn't addressed the issue. The biggest thing that seemed to help was gooping keg lube on the o-ring.

If they won't replace them. I will sell them on ebay or craigs list to get what I can for them. Probably replace them with Ventmatics.
 
day_trippr said:
Someone's surely going to call their support line and give that a try.
You could be that Someone ;)

~snip`

[edit] Just to be clear, I've been running these faucets for a few years now and they've been rock solid, never leak, always connected at 12psi...
Click to expand...

As you see in my post just above this one, I might be that first caller as I did call. No dice, at least with the first person I spoke to. I guess I will have to be a squeeky wheel and see if I get anywhere.

I run my regulator at 10PSI. I have had it higher than that 12 or 13, got too much foam and it didn't help the leak issue. If it would help the leak issue I would replace my liquid line with longer lines but since it didn't help the leak issue I dropped back to 10 as that is about where things are right in terms of head on my beer.
 
I can imagine Perlick will be getting some heat for awhile.

fwiw, something I noticed while swapping the O-ring today:

If you remove a Perl and look down the faucet bore from the shank end you can observe where the faucet lever closure ball contacts the "floating" #3 O-ring at the spout. That "float" is minimal, at best, from what I've seen, and thus the bonnet needs to be run down fairly tight to have the closure ball line up dead nuts on the O-ring.

A turn or two short and you can see the ball is hitting the O-ring off-center (towards the handle side). To do that without squishing out one of the #2 O-rings, a light film of keg lube on the pivot ball is helpful.

Just pulled a pint and futzed around with the test faucet. Still seems solid...

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
I can imagine Perlick will be getting some heat for awhile.

fwiw, something I noticed while swapping the O-ring today:

If you remove a Perl and look down the faucet bore from the shank end you can observe where the faucet lever closure ball contacts the "floating" #3 O-ring at the spout. That "float" is minimal, at best, from what I've seen, and thus the bonnet needs to be run down fairly tight to have the closure ball line up dead nuts on the O-ring.

A turn or two short and you can see the ball is hitting the O-ring off-center (towards the handle side). To do that without squishing out one of the #2 O-rings, a light film of keg lube on the pivot ball is helpful.

Just pulled a pint and futzed around with the test faucet. Still seems solid...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I have tried tight, loose, tight to seat then loose. Really nothings seems to help as much as coating the o-ring in keg lube. One thing he did ask several times was how long I have had the faucets. They had been in use about 6 months when I had the major leak back in December. They pretty much have always took fiddling to get to seal. I didn't buy them all at the same time as the LHBS didn't have the three that I wanted. So I think I got one then two more when more were in stock about a month later.

For them to simply write off the 525SS owners kind of sucks. It seems convenient that they announce the end of the replacement option just as a comparable replacement hits the market.

Maybe I am off in my expectation for them to replace a $40 faucet with a $40 faucet of similar build quality. But when going over the posts here it sure seems like they identified a design issue, tried to fix it with a retrofit kit which I would have been happy with if it appeared to resolve the issue. They are not even offering the retrofit kit at this point. His initial response was basically that I should have called earlier. The only way I would have been happy with the 408 was if I could later return it for the 630SS once released. It didn't appear that this was the case so that is why I held off on contacting them. It appears that the only reason he was still talking to me about the issue was because I haven't had them very long. He paused several times when he was responding to my comments to try and word things very carefully.
 
sennister said:
If they won't replace them. I will sell them on ebay or craigs list to get what I can for them. Probably replace them with Ventmatics.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace with Ventmatics. The new versions are also having problems with seals.
 
tomCT said:
You shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace with Ventmatics. The new versions are also having problems with seals.
Click to expand...

I had seen that. Not in a rush to replace them but I doubt it will be with another set of Perlicks.
 
Did you try replacing the O-rings on the faucet? Someone earlier in this thread posted a link to a McMaster Carr replacement for the 525's O-rings.

link

I have 4 525SS faucets on my keezer. So far no leaks, but I may go ahead and get a bag of O-rings in case I do experience any leaks. A lot cheaper than replacing the faucets. The part number for McMasters is 9452K58.


I've had no issues with mine, but from what I have read on this thread and others, that the 525s are being discontinued because they will eventually leak and the replacement seals seem to fail too over time. If true, that leaves me with four options:

1. Keep the 525s and just replace the O-rings as needed (hoping the McMaster O-rings work, if Perlick decides to also discontinue the replacement O-ring kits if they haven't already).

2. Replace with the new 630 SS. The two things that worry me are will these new faucets experience the same thing down the road? The 525SS seemed to be the faucet of choice up until a couple of years ago. One post I came across here showed the different O-ring sizes the 525 went through in its lifespan. This is what has me leaning on keeping what I have and hope the McMaster equivalent will solve a leak issue if I ever have one. Then there's the growler filler issue. The one with your 525 faucets won't work with the new 630SS.

3. Forget Perlick altogether and go with either Ventamatics (which seem to have their own issues) or the ****ty rear sealing faucets we left for Perlick or Ventamatic in the first place.

4 Re-embrace bottling.


If the O-ring option works, then I don't have to buy new faucets and growler filler. That's what I'm hoping at least.
 
Yesfan said:
Did you try replacing the O-rings on the faucet? Someone earlier in this thread posted a link to a McMaster Carr replacement for the 525's O-rings.

link

I have 4 525SS faucets on my keezer. So far no leaks, but I may go ahead and get a bag of O-rings in case I do experience any leaks. A lot cheaper than replacing the faucets. The part number for McMasters is 9452K58.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did see that post. Here is a direct link to the part.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9452k58/=qqwls6

Cheaper, sure it after having so many issues it is a trust thing with me at this point.

I've had no issues with mine, but from what I have read on this thread and others, that the 525s are being discontinued because they will eventually leak and the replacement seals seem to fail too over time. If true, that leaves me with four options:
Click to expand...
I tend to agree, and they seem to as well which is why they were replacing them. Kind of odd that they suddenly no longer offer that solution.

1. Keep the 525s and just replace the O-rings as needed (hoping the McMaster O-rings work, if Perlick decides to also discontinue the replacement O-ring kits if they haven't already).
Click to expand...
Can be done, seems like a waste. It was only about $3 for 100 of them. But since my faucets have shown that they have issues, when will it strike next.
2. Replace with the new 630 SS. The two things that worry me are will these new faucets experience the same thing down the road? The 525SS seemed to be the faucet of choice up until a couple of years ago. One post I came across here showed the different O-ring sizes the 525 went through in its lifespan. This is what has me leaning on keeping what I have and hope the McMaster equivalent will solve a leak issue if I ever have one. Then there's the growler filler issue. The one with your 525 faucets won't work with the new 630SS.
Click to expand...
If they won't stand behind their 525SS when they stated there is a design flaw, why would we expect them to stand behind the 630SS.
3. Forget Perlick altogether and go with either Ventamatics (which seem to have their own issues) or the ****ty rear sealing faucets we left for Perlick or Ventamatic in the first place.
Click to expand...
I would rather give my money to Ventmatic at this point. They seem to be offering a fix. I saw a post here where they are replacing the seals. Maybe they had to go with a thicker one. I am fine with that if it resolves the issue. I am also fine with a periodic seal replacement. However telling me to do it every 6 mo and to jack my pressure to 13PSI where all I get is a glass of foam isn't the answer. I would be cool with replacing seals every 1-2 years. I have some rear seals but I don't want to go to that either. I could recoup some of my expenses by replacing the O-ring on the 525SS and selling them on ebay.
4 Re-embrace bottling.
Click to expand...
True, one option. I don't plan on it.

Option 5
Install a shutoff system. I have been kicking around the idea of installing a key controlled solenoid to cut the flow to the liquid lines. This would give me two things. First the safety in knowing that the beer can't leak. Second, I have kids and while they are young now, they will be teenagers. I would like to think I can trust them but the bigger question would be when friends are over. The reason I didn't go with the 575SS was because you can't really lock them. I wanted something I had an option of locking when the time came that I might need this. If I go this route maybe it will be computer controlled with a RFID reader or a physical key switch like what I installed to power on my Electric Control Panel.
If the O-ring option works, then I don't have to buy new faucets and growler filler. That's what I'm hoping at least.
Click to expand...

Some people may be fine with the o-ring replacement route. Maybe change it out every time you replace a keg. It just sucks that you now have to do this because of a design flaw. If you got lucky and bought your faucets before they had the 525, back when they had the one they got in trouble with Ventmatic for stealing their design, you probably don't have any issues and can go years without any leaks. I know people that have these or the original Ventmatics which work great. No stuck faucets, no leaks. I think the issue has to do with the alignment of the ball on the valve with the o-ring. The o-ring should float around a bit to self center. I know when I pulled the o-rings in mine to clean the channel that it sits in really well and lube them with Keg Lube, I noticed that they are not perfectly round in the faucet. When installed they appear to be pinched a bit. That might be part of the problem. They said that the o-ring should be replaced every 6 months. I had leaks pretty much right away. Never called them and spent time trying to work out what I was doing wrong. Posted a thread here back in December about the issue and how it caused around 2 gallons of beer to get pushed out all over my carpet and someone directed me to this thread and the design flaw. Like I said I held off on calling them because I didn't think the 408 was a valid replacement and I could live with it for a couple months till a replacement was out. Now they are trying to say that if anyone had an issue they should have called by now.

My guess is that IF I get a call back. It will likely be from the Jeff guy mentioned on page 9 or 10 here. Where he told someone that you need to increase pressure to 12-13 and replace o-rings every 6 months. Then they will dismiss the issue.
 
There was a guy named Scott that seemed to be pretty helpful. Maybe call and ask for him.


I have seen no posts about anyone using the McMaster O-rings, but seem to read plenty of Perlick's replacement O-rings failing in due time. I'm hoping there's a difference between the two. It seems that Perlick changed the O-rings several times in the 525's lifespan. So I have to ask, if there were no issues with the 525s up until the past couple of years, why did Perlick "fix something that wasn't broken"? This is what makes me think it's more of a O-ring issue than a faucet body issue.

If the faucet body design is also at fault, you would think they would at least kept the nozzle the same to where you didn't have to use (or wait for) a new growler filler.
 
So, I have an account with UPS that sends me an email alert the day before a package is set to be delivered. I had recently ordered a bunch of stuff from Amazon (gotta love Prime) so I didn't think much of it. Today I was clicking on the emails to see when the packages would arrive. The email shows estimated delivery date, time, tracking number and who shipped it. As I flip though them, Amazon, Amazon, Perlick, Amazon. Wait a minute go back to the previous email. Perlick. Hmm, I wonder what they shipped. It will be here between 9am-1pm. Never did hear any response from them. They had taken my mailing address and cell number when I called them Monday.

EDIT: I just looked at the tracking number in UPS and it shows that the package weight is 1.6 lbs. If they just sent seals that is probably a case of them. I am thinking they sent faucets but we will have to see what they are when I get home...
 
Does anyone have a McMaster-Carr part number (or dimensions) for the seat o-ring? The o-ring that is internal to the 525 and against which the ball seats? I asked on the "Perlilck o-ring" thread with no luck. All discussion seems to center around the two identical o-rings that go above and below the ball but it seems to me that the seat o-ring would be a likely place for leakage. I haven't actually even installed my perlicks yet but I'm putting together a o-ring order from McMaster-Carr and would like to pick up some of these as well.
 
MichaelBrock said:
Does anyone have a McMaster-Carr part number (or dimensions) for the seat o-ring? The o-ring that is internal to the 525 and against which the ball seats? I asked on the "Perlilck o-ring" thread with no luck. All discussion seems to center around the two identical o-rings that go above and below the ball but it seems to me that the seat o-ring would be a likely place for leakage. I haven't actually even installed my perlicks yet but I'm putting together a o-ring order from McMaster-Carr and would like to pick up some of these as well.
Click to expand...

Here is a direct link to the o-ring you are asking about.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9452k58/=qqwls6

EDIT: Ahh, I think I see what you are saying. I would agree that where mine is leaking is the main seal that the ball seats up against. I think the o-ring in the link above are the smaller o-rings.
 
In my experience, it isn't the forward sealing o-ring that causes leaks. It's the o-ring for the nut or elsewhere that causes the forward sealing ball to not seat properly on that forward sealing o-ring.

For me, once it was a kink in the nut o-ring, and another time, a bit of beer got on the shaft somehow and was causing it to be a bit sticky which meant it wouldn't close properly; and the other time the nut was too tight which again caused it to not seat properly when closed.

All three times, it would drip every other second or so and after a few minutes it would work itself nearly completely open. I tore 'em apart, fixed 'em, and haven't had a problem since...

If the handle doesn't open/close with pretty much no resistence (with the exception of when it closes completely - you should almost feel a small 'pop'), there is likely a seating problem caused by something.
 
AZ_IPA said:
In my experience, it isn't the forward sealing o-ring that causes leaks. It's the o-ring for the nut or elsewhere that causes the forward sealing ball to not seat properly on that forward sealing o-ring.

For me, once it was a kink in the nut o-ring, and another time, a bit of beer got on the shaft somehow and was causing it to be a bit sticky which meant it wouldn't close properly; and the other time the nut was too tight which again caused it to not seat properly when closed.

All three times, it would drip every other second or so and after a few minutes it would work itself nearly completely open. I tore 'em apart, fixed 'em, and haven't had a problem since...

If the handle doesn't open/close with pretty much no resistence (with the exception of when it closes completely - you should almost feel a small 'pop'), there is likely a seating problem caused by something.
Click to expand...

So in your case you think the upper o-rings were causing binding so it wouldn't properly seal or was it leaking from around the top nut?

In my case my handle moves with next to no resistance. They pretty much fall open. I know what you mean by the "pop" feel when closing. I get that right now. I also added keg lube to the forward o-rings of my faucet to get this though. It really appears in my case that the forward o-ring which I think by design should be floating, isn't. It is like it is squeezed a bit from the sides. I can see where over/under tightening the top nut could cause a position issue where the ball doesn't line up with the forward o-ring. It could also be a positioning issue with the forward o-ring.
 

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