Brewometer... Any idea/feedback on this?

Sure would be nice to eliminate the sample procedure and have some sort of probe sensor instead so that realtime readings could be taken.

http://www.newellinstruments.com/products/Brewometer.html


Somebody in the Urbana are needs to get a in-person demo or something.

That is pretty kick ass.

This looks awesome! A probe sensor would certainly be a welcome addition, but those of us with spigots on our fermenters will have a pretty easy time getting the required samples. Thanks for the link!

I'm kind of sceptical, though, since there's not a good pic of it or a pdf manual.

Neat, but wow that's pricey. Although I suppose over the loooOOOooong haul, you're saving gallons of beer in samples.

Bump!

SWMBO is thinking about buying me the Brewometer for my 30th...

Anybody have one of these? How's it working for you?

Also, for the geeks among us, what components do you suppose they're using? I'd love to build a DIY version, but I have no idea how digital refractometers work.

hmm... well you do like your toys so I can see the appeal. I just bought a hand held refractometer and use the online calculator to adjust for final gravity alcohol. You do realize you still need to get a sample with one of the dropper thingies right? Anyhow... they have the refractometers on ebay for about 30 bucks still you should at least get one of those and some personal attention from SWMBO for the money she'll save.

seawort said:

Anyhow... they have the refractometers on ebay for about 30 bucks

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If I'm going to manually read a refractometer, I'd rather just use a hydrometer. Pulling samples is no problem with any of my fermenter setups.

However, if I can use a small sample size to track my brew progress on the computer, I'm definitely interested. Like I said, I'd rather build a DIY version, but I'm not sure what kind of sensor(s) are used in digital refractometers. I think I could reverse engineer the Brewometer enough to build my own interface and/or build my own digital sensor to incorporate into my already functioning brew monitor software.

First Thought would be to make a digital image through a refractometer and make a program to interpet the image...

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=637

Yuri_Rage said:

However, if I can use a small sample size to track my brew progress on the computer, I'm definitely interested. Like I said, I'd rather build a DIY version, but I'm not sure what kind of sensor(s) are used in digital refractometers. I think I could reverse engineer the Brewometer enough to build my own interface and/or build my own digital sensor to incorporate into my already functioning brew monitor software.

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hmm... unfortunately I think it would be way easier to use the brewmometer and use the input then. So... In a way thats likely good news... buy away!

For the beer geek that has everything. Very cool.

Yuri_Rage said:

Like I said, I'd rather build a DIY version, but I'm not sure what kind of sensor(s) are used in digital refractometers. I think I could reverse engineer the Brewometer enough to build my own interface and/or build my own digital sensor to incorporate into my already functioning brew monitor software.

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After looking at a few component suppliers and coming up with basically nothing I checked wikipedia and found the following basics behind digital refractometers:

"Most operate on the same general critical angle principle as a traditional handheld refractometer. The difference is that light from an LED light source is focused on the underside or a prism element. When a liquid sample is applied to the measuring surface of the prism, some of the light is transmitted through the solution and lost; while the remaining light is reflected onto a linear array of photodiodes creating a shadow line."

Seems to me it would be quite an undertaking to create a DIY version and I am sure it would be very difficult to get accurate results. I'm going to keep my eyes out for some sort of plug-n-play sensor that one could be built around. Other digital refractometers are going for quite a lot more $$ than this one.

So, SWMBO did it - she got me the Brewometer for my birthday. I've been sitting here messing with it for an hour, and it seems like the most inaccurate device ever created for measuring anything. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but I read the directions about 8 times over, and I don't think I'm screwing up. Here's the message I just sent to Newell:

I just received my Brewometer, and it doesn't seem to be working very well. Why do I get differing SG readings from any given sample in Beer vs Wort mode? The SG of the sample is constant. Also, in Wort mode, the software seems "spring loaded" to zeroize itself. Sometimes, when a sample is placed on the window, the numbers begin changing, only to immediately reset to 1.000. What is going on here?

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Now, to their credit, the Brewometer seems pretty ingenious...if I can get it to work. It's recognized as a webcam by the computer, and it uses a Logitech driver. There's a red LED light shining up onto the sample window, and I assume that the software does some sort of scene analysis in order to calculate SG. If I start up the Logitech webcam capture software, I can actually see the picture that the Brewometer is sending. It doesn't really appear to change much, though, when different samples are placed on it.

So far, I'd rather use a hydrometer. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for playing guinea pig for us other beer geeks. Sounds like it's the Magic Eight Ball for Specific Gravity. You know, ask it what the O.G. is, shake and have a look.

I hope you get it straightened out and flying right, otherwise I hope they have a full money back policy.

I'm already imagining this thing in pieces on his garage floor and a new stainless steel chasis is being welded as we speak.

olllllo said:

I'm already imagining this thing in pieces on his garage floor and a new stainless steel chasis is being welded as we speak.

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I've been eyeing those four little screws in the bottom all day...

Yuri_Rage said:

Why do I get differing SG readings from any given sample in Beer vs Wort mode? The SG of the sample is constant.

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A refractometer doesn't measure the specific gravity, it measures the refractive index.
If you measure the refractive index of a sugar solution (wort mode) there is a fairy linear correlation between the SG and the RI. When you start fermenting however, you convert some of the sugar to alcohol. Unfortunately, alcohol has a similar effect on the RI to sugar, so the conversion from RI to SG is different after fermentation has started (beer mode).
I'm pretty sure that it is impossible to calculate the SG of a fermented brew using a refractometer without knowing the OG of the brew being tested.
http://byo.com/feature/1132.html gives an idea of what the refractometer can do.

-a.

ajf said:

I'm pretty sure that it is impossible to calculate the SG of a fermented brew using a refractometer without knowing the OG of the brew being tested.
http://byo.com/feature/1132.html gives an idea of what the refractometer can do.

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Thanks! That makes some sense. It doesn't explain everything about the issues I was having...but a little info makes a big difference sometimes.

I live 45 minutes from Urbana. I would be glad to go over and give them a government inspection. I could break out one of the ol black suits and pull a "Fletch" routine on them. Maybe it's missing some ball bearings and some 40 W motor oil.

Mr. Mojo Rising said:

I live 45 minutes from Urbana. I would be glad to go over and give them a government inspection. I could break out one of the ol black suits and pull a "Fletch" routine on them. Maybe it's missing some ball bearings and some 40 W motor oil.

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Would you add Prestone? Make that Quaker State. Everything is ball bearings these days.

As posted above feel it would take quite a bit of computational algorithms to pull off accurate readings. Webcams have horrible resolutions and can be open to a ton of background distortion, just look at a video feed from one. There maybe a reason why industrial meters cost so much.

For those of you following this post...I think I've got the Brewometer working alright now. It seems somewhat accurate, at least in wort mode with light colored wort.

Here's the problem with using a refractometer to measure anything after fermentation (in Yuri's words instead of ajf's):

The assumption with a refractometer is that you are solely measuring sugar concentration in water. Once the wort has fermented, CO2 and alcohol are present in significant quantities. CO2 can be eliminated rather easily, but alcohol content is something we're interested in measuring. However, the refractive index of alcohol is much different than that of water. Therefore, without knowing how much alcohol is present, it is impossible to determine how much sugar is remaining in the beer. In other words, you're solving for three unknowns. The use of OG in the refractive index equations allows some approximation to be done, and an FG can be derived.

In short, a refractometer is great for measuring wort, especially during the brewing process when a small sample of hot wort is easier to obtain than a full test jar for a hydrometer. But it's not a replacement for a hydrometer, especially when determining FG and ABV.

Yuri_Rage said:

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In short, a refractometer is great for measuring wort, especially during the brewing process when a small sample of hot wort is easier to obtain than a full test jar for a hydrometer. But it's not a replacement for a hydrometer, especially when determining FG and ABV.

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They have formula's that take this stuff into account.

Denny's Evil Concoctions said:

They have formulas that take this stuff into account.

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Unless I've failed my homework assignment (again), the only one that isn't an approximation (using assumptions about OG) is this one:

ABV = [277.8851 - 277.4(FG) + 0.9956(Brix) + 0.00523(Brix2) + 0.000013(Brix3)] x (FG/0.79)

It requires you to take a hydrometer sample along with a refractometer reading. Therefore, a refractometer does not replace a hydrometer.

Well, those "approximations" seem to work for me. Using promash or beersmiths "SG while fermenting" tool.

........ Huh?