An affordable option to building an all electric system?

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wildwest450

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I want to go all electric, unfortunately I have zero electrical knowledge. I could build you a house but can't tell you why your lights turn on.:eek:

There isn't much in the way of all electric brewing that isn't super expensive. Until I found High Gravity. They have some neat systems that range from around $1400 to $2100 complete (minus the chiller and stand). I need the electric experts to have a look and tell me what you think.

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Build-Your-Own-Brewery-c269.htm

I called them they are legit.:mug:
 
That's pretty cool! I didn't know anyone was assembling kits like this :mug:

<Go-Go Gadget Contrarian>
But, if you do the math, you can get (2) 20G Boilermakers for $800, the false bottom for $90, and a March pump for $100

That would leave you $500.00 for hoses and fittings, and it's all 20 gallon Blingmann

I'm not sayin'... I'm just sayin...

I don't like paying people to collect items I can buy myself, just to resell them to me mostly unmodified. You could put your electrical fears at ease if you can track down a handy friend, or local helpful HBT member.

My $.02

I'm in the same boat - Just got my annual bump from our employees in Washing DC, and I've been eyeballin some 20G Bling:tank:
 
If you are not comfortable building an electric system yourself then this is a good choice. Though like sweetsounds said. You could go other ways. Nice shiny kettles are nice but when you wrap them with insulation they look just as nice as a $50 converted keg.

I was able to make my complete system for about $1500. That includes a lot of things that are not in that kit. You will want a stand. You might want faster heating too. I heat my water in my kettle with 5500w. It takes me about 20 minutes to get to mash in temps. They are using weldless fittings not welded. Welds can be cheaper if you braze them yourself. There are lots of other little things that can save you money.

Overall though. I think it is a great system. If it were me though and I did not have the ability to build it myself. I would buy the mini-brew system. Save some money by buying the plastic tanks. Then you can upgrade later to three kegs and complete the system. Using their electronics.
 
If I could figure out how to replicate that control box I could do the rest my self.
 
Looks like nothing more than a PWM driven SSR to regulate power to the element - maybe $40 in parts. Most brewers would prefer to have some sort of temperature control in their systems and use off-the-shelf PID controllers that are even easier to wire up. If you really have your heart set on just a dial control for the kettle alone, I know various PWM designs has been written up here a number of times.
 
Looks like nothing more than a PWM driven SSR to regulate power to the element - maybe $40 in parts. Most brewers would prefer to have some sort of temperature control in their systems and use off-the-shelf PID controllers that are even easier to wire up. If you really have your heart set on just a dial control for the kettle alone, I know various PWM designs has been written up here a number of times.


Gee thanks.:rolleyes: I suppose your electrical knowledge is better than your reading comprehension.;)
 
Care to rephrase?

He is saying that he has zero knowledge of how to do electrical work, and wouldn't know where to start.

wildwest, I think the best option is to look around and figure out exactly what you want and then start asking here for help to plan it. There are some talented (and helpful) people with good electrical skills that could help you put together a control box that does what you want.
 
If I could figure out how to replicate that control box I could do the rest my self.

I believe there is someone out there making control just control boxes. I seem to remember seeing them somewhere. Though they were pricey. Like $500.

There may even be someone on the forum that would make you one for a small fee. If I had the extra time i would help you out. I can sell you a PWM though. It is a very simple design. You would have to figure out how to get 12v dc to it and how to wire up the SSR.
 
He is saying that he has zero knowledge of how to do electrical work, and wouldn't know where to start.

wildwest, I think the best option is to look around and figure out exactly what you want and then start asking here for help to plan it. There are some talented (and helpful) people with good electrical skills that could help you put together a control box that does what you want.

I know exactly what i want. A rims or herms, with full/ partial automation. Crap I hate being a n00b again at something.
 
Ok, your post sounded like a peanuts(charlie brown) adult talking, whah, whah,whah. Pwm, ssr, pid mean nothing to me. Jesus I put smilies there, have a sense of humor.:)

Umm. OK.

If I could figure out how to replicate that control box I could do the rest my self.

I was simply trying to help. With over 4K posts and a membership here, surely you're aware of the little search button above, right? If PWM, SSR, and PID mean nothing to you yet you really want your question answered, why don't you just search? Might be easer than slamming someone's "reading comprehension".
 
I recommend research and learn. If you buy a pre-built system you wont be able to repair it if you have no knowledge of it. I mean seriously a control box for $500? I built mine for about $80. Have an electrician drop you a 40 amp gfi protected outlet the rest is really just plug and play.
 
Umm. OK.

I was simply trying to help. With over 4K posts and a membership here, surely you're aware of the little search button above, right? If PWM, SSR, and PID mean nothing to you yet you really want your question answered, why don't you just search? Might be easer than slamming someone's "reading comprehension".

Because I never asked what those things were. I simply asked if people with a working knowledge of electric brew rigs thought those were reasonably priced setups.

And I wasn't slamming you, did you not have your coffee yet?
 
I...If PWM, SSR, and PID mean nothing to you yet you really want your question answered, why don't you just search?...

I understand where wildwest is coming from. I have read extensively about how to create and control an electric system, but I completely lack the technical knowledge to know what each piece really does. I can figure out the end task that the combination of parts produces, but not why. Hell, wiring up my outlet box with simple 115V power was tough enough for me...and I sound farther along than he does. :confused:
 
I understand where wildwest is coming from. I have read extensively about how to create and control an electric system, but I completely lack the technical knowledge to know what each piece really does. I can figure out the end task that the combination of parts produces, but not why. Hell, wiring up my outlet box with simple 115V power was tough enough for me...and I sound farther along than he does. :confused:

Thank you.
 
The highgravitybrew controller uses a 3-prong dryer plug (hot, hot, ground) and provides a 110v pump outlet (hot, neutral, ground) -- are they conflating ground with neutral, and will that cause trouble for a gfci outlet? Or am I confused about something?
 
... are they conflating ground with neutral, and will that cause trouble for a gfci outlet? Or am I confused about something?
No, you are not confused. You are spot on. That simple violation of wiring principles should raise a huge red flag for anyone considering that vendor.
 
Another thing I love about electric. No two people agree on any setup. Pol thread here we come.:D
 
Here, http://www.brewmation.com/Elements.html

Crap I could buy the whole setup for what he wants for some of those.

I think the unit for $599 would be the one you want. That would leave you $1000 for stand, kegs, pipes, pump, and misc connectors.

If you compare that to the full system you originally posted about. You would have a much nicer system. I would venture to say you would end up lower than $1500 total if you went this route.

I think in my opinion given your electrical knowledge. That would be the ticket. After buying wire, switches, controllers, connectors, and misc other parts. My control system was the most expensive part of my build. What they are offering is a pretty good system. You are pretty much getting exactly what I have on my system as far as control features.

Edit: After looking at it a bit more. The features of the $799 unit is more like what I have. This is a bit pricey. I bet I only have about $400 in all my parts.
 
I think the unit for $599 would be the one you want. That would leave you $1000 for stand, kegs, pipes, pump, and misc connectors.

If you compare that to the full system you originally posted about. You would have a much nicer system. I would venture to say you would end up lower than $1500 total if you went this route.

I think in my opinion given your electrical knowledge. That would be the ticket. After buying wire, switches, controllers, connectors, and misc other parts. My control system was the most expensive part of my build. What they are offering is a pretty good system. You are pretty much getting exactly what I have on my system as far as control features.

Edit: After looking at it a bit more. The features of the $799 unit is more like what I have. This is a bit pricey. I bet I only have about $400 in all my parts.


Something to think about. Who wants to build me one?
 
Sparta, Tn? Darn shame. Wish you were closer. The build is not all that difficult. But, IMHO, it requires some hands on to make sure that all of the safety considerations are accounted for in the process.

+1 I would have no problem building one if you could be here to help and understand. That is just too much liability.
 
I recommend research and learn. If you buy a pre-built system you wont be able to repair it if you have no knowledge of it.

+1 to that.

Not just repair, but safety as well. What you're dealing with could kill you. :eek:

I know that you are an intelligent man; therefore, you could easily learn the necessary theory. Start playing around with the electrical components on your own (which is fun!) before dealing with an entire complex electrical system.

If you won't bother to learn the fundamentals, then don't proceed to buy it. You don't need an electrical system, especially if you're not willing to understand how it works.

Good luck, and keep it safe, bro. :)
 
+1 to that.

Not just repair, but safety as well. What you're dealing with could kill you. :eek:

I know that you are an intelligent man; therefore, you could easily learn the necessary theory. Start playing around with the electrical components on your own (which is fun!) before dealing with an entire complex electrical system.

If you won't bother to learn the fundamentals, then don't proceed to buy it. You don't need an electrical system, especially if you're not willing to understand how it works.

Good luck, and keep it safe, bro. :)

I am not so sure I agree with you on this. Everyday housewives turn on their electric stoves and microwaves with boiling fluid in them. They do not need to know the hows and whys of the device they are using. Why should brewing be any different. I bet most commercial brewers do not really know how their equipment works. When it breaks they call in the repairman.

Expecting everyone to know as much as designers and builders does seem a little bit of a reach. Though we have some safeguards in place like UL listings and such, but overall people have other things to deal with then learning complicated details. They just need their products to work.

Though I agree it is in your best interest to know much of these things. I don't believe they are required. Another dangerous "thing" many people use is a car. Sure some of us tinker and modify. Most just turn the key.
 
I am not so sure I agree with you on this.

Well said! I'm not an idiot. I have a class A CDL, I've build 3 homes from the ground up. I can pour and finish cement, and chew bubble gum and walk at the same time.:D

Plus my dad is a licensed electrician. I just don't know the technical in's and out's of a partially automated electric brewery. It's mostly a lingo/sourcing problem. I'm starting to see why the POl ran off.:(
 
I was at High Gravity last Sunday at an all-grain class. They demonstrate with that very system. It works like a dream. I am slowly converting over to electric and emulating their system as closely as I can.
 
I am not so sure I agree with you on this. Everyday housewives turn on their electric stoves and microwaves with boiling fluid in them. They do not need to know the hows and whys of the device they are using. Why should brewing be any different. ...
That is exactly the reason for my wish that I was closer. It is not about running the system. It is all about the design and installation.

Let's not get into the differences between plumbers and "electricians".

wildwest is right on the money with his concerns. I am 100% in his corner.
 
I was at High Gravity last Sunday at an all-grain class. They demonstrate with that very system. It works like a dream. I am slowly converting over to electric and emulating their system as closely as I can.

And no one was electrocuted? Amazing. Thanks for the info, for the money I do like their setup. If only it had a little better temp control system. I have a question, they have Ranco controllers to control temp, in their pics it showed the probes just dangling in the kettles, but Ranco probes are not waterproof. Have any insight? Thanks!
 
Ok, I've been researching this, and I've looked at the controllers on the sites mentioned so far with the same reservations already discussed here.

This will NOT be 1/2 arsed, or built with cheap crap. But it should be cheaper than the ones listed in this thread so far.

I'm talking full-blown PID control w/400 degree submersible RTD sensor, with disconnect
Dual SSRs w/heat sinks (Both legs switched)
30 amp 220v straight-blade input on 10' of SJOW 10-4 cable
30 amp 220v twist-lock output (L14-30)
NEMA enclosure

Because it sounds like fun, and there seems to be a need. It seems like 25 Amp is the sweet spot for SSRs, so this may change a little, but that's still 5500 Watts....

It'll be inspected and tested. If I like it, maybe I'll make more.:mug:
 
I want to go all electric, unfortunately I have zero electrical knowledge. I could build you a house but can't tell you why your lights turn on.:eek:

There isn't much in the way of all electric brewing that isn't super expensive. Until I found High Gravity. They have some neat systems that range from around $1400 to $2100 complete (minus the chiller and stand). I need the electric experts to have a look and tell me what you think.

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Build-Your-Own-Brewery-c269.htm

I called them they are legit.:mug:
Where do you plan to set up your system? What size power supply do you have available? Would you need to add a receptacle for the brewery? A new GFI protected receptacle will run you a few bucks that you will want to budget for. If you plan to use an existing receptacle, you should replace the circuit breaker with a GFI breaker.

I would be a little leary of the system you mentioned. As pointed out earlier, it is a four wire system with only a 3 prong main power plug. That is illegal and unsafe. Makes me wonder what else is wrong with it since they got the very first component wrong. I hope their disclaimer holds up in court for them:D

Also, some electric systems seem to have only capacity enough to fire either the HLT or BK but not both at the same time. A 30A circuit will not handle two 4500W elements. I often do multiple batches and need to heat strike water while boiling the first batch.

I built my electric HLT/HERMS and absolutly love it. My system is similar to the $749 one at brewmation. Their systems look well built to me. I would probably consider one if I was uncomfortable with building my own.
 
There is a definite market for the non-engineer brewers, but it is not all that large. Brewers who are really into brewing, are not engineers or DIYers through and through, and are looking to move to electric is definitely a small market, but definitely exists. Which is why you only see a few people selling and they can charge a premium (or so some of you seem to think they do, I have no idea).

As for Sweetsounds, I would be interested in hearing about your product, and based on price, I may buy just for my HLT or something.

Just to be curious, what exactly would need to be repaired in these systems? Seems to me that a well-wired electrical system should last longer than the element or many other parts of the brewing system. I've never had to replace any propane plumbing on any of my brew setups...although I don't have pilot lights and automated burners either.
 
I am also interested in going electric but know nothing about electricity. I have been to Brewmation and like what they have, but it seems more expensive than what one can be put together for (I don't know, they may be quite reasonable).

I'm pretty sure I could assemble one, but making sure it was SAFE and not hazardous is my concern, I'd want to make sure it was grounded properly and such.

I'm currently only brewing extract, and in 5 gallon batches. Would someone be able to recommend a electrical system for me? And if I assembled it, posted pictures, would someone be able to tell me if it was safe or not?
 
And no one was electrocuted? Amazing. Thanks for the info, for the money I do like their setup. If only it had a little better temp control system. I have a question, they have Ranco controllers to control temp, in their pics it showed the probes just dangling in the kettles, but Ranco probes are not waterproof. Have any insight? Thanks!

On his demo unit he had a heat well on the side of the MT but like you saw online the sensor dangles (alligator clipped to the thermo probe) in the HLT.
Ranco actually sells a heat well...$22 I think, but it is attached to a stopper. Not sure if Weld B Gone makes one large enough for the Ranco sensor. Here is a link to making your own submersible sensor....https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/diy-submersible-temperature-probe-26400/...who knows..maybe a little epoxy on the Ranco is all you need. Ask Dave at High Gravity if he's had any problems from the submerged probes.
 
Where do you plan to set up your system? What size power supply do you have available? Would you need to add a receptacle for the brewery? A new GFI protected receptacle will run you a few bucks that you will want to budget for. If you plan to use an existing receptacle, you should replace the circuit breaker with a GFI breaker.

I would be a little leary of the system you mentioned. As pointed out earlier, it is a four wire system with only a 3 prong main power plug. That is illegal and unsafe.

My system will be in a dedicated brew shed (check my sig). I will have a 100 amp service at my disposal. I'm planning on having 2 30 amp 240v plugs. I e-mailed the company with everyones concerns about their setup and this was their reply-

"We recommend grounding the frame of your brewery to protect everything. The ground from a GFCI should be attached to the frame. We can build a 4-wire version of the EBC II if you prefer. We don't use a GFCI ourselves, it's not like a hot tub where you are sitting inside the thing. The potential risk is in the case of a heating element failure, which is extremely rare, and we recommend simply hitting the Off switch in this case."

If you would post up some pics of your setup.
 
What is everyone using to control their boil kettle element? A potentiometer, or some other device?
 
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