First BIAB - Dissecting Results

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OrangesOfCourse

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Hey guys,

I'm hoping you guys can give me some comment/critique my first BIAB. I can go ahead and list all the details and I would appreciate it if you guys could tell me where I went wrong.

I'm basing my recipe from BierMuncher's Blue Moon Clone.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.19 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.77 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 3.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 16.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
3.5 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
1.5 Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0
0.60 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 mins)
1.00 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)
1.0 pkg Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400)
Click to expand...

Steps:

1) Started with 8 gallons strike water at 158°
2) Added grains to paint strainer bag (cover only half the kettle)
3) Mashed around 154° for 60 mins
4) Mashed-out around 168° for 10 mins.
5) Removed bag from kettle and squeezed everything we could from the bag.
6) Started boiling the wort
7) Added hops once we achieved a rolling boil and boiled for 60 mins.
8) Added coriander and orange peel at 10 and 5 mins prior to flame out.
9) Cooled the wort as low as we could in the sink (only got it down to 80°)
10) Transferred 5 gallons to a carboy and had ~1/2 gallon wort with trub.
11) Pitched yeast at 80° (Would not cool further as the house was hot)

Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.029
Post-Boil (Original Gravity): 1.033

According to BeerSmith our OG should have been 1.046 but we only achieved 1.033. Where did we go wrong?

Should we have used 2 paint strainer bags and clipped each over half the kettle and split the grains between them?
Did we not have enough water in the kettle prior to adding the grains?
What adverse effects will we get from pitching the yeast at 80°?

Please let me know if you need any more information.
 
Could be a lot of things. If the crush wasn't fine enough, that could be part of the problem. First step would be to check your thermometer though. If it's off several degrees, you'll have issues.

Pitching and fermenting at 80F will give you some crazy esters.
 
seabass07 said:
Could be a lot of things. If the crush wasn't fine enough, that could be part of the problem. First step would be to check your thermometer though. If it's off several degrees, you'll have issues.
Click to expand...

Hmm... never did check the thermometer. It came with a brewing kit and I figured it would be fine. I'll be sure to check on that before the next brew.

Pitching and fermenting at 80F will give you some crazy esters.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I didn't have a way to cool the wort down further. We used an ice bath but it wouldn't drop below 80°. I'm thinking we will make an immersion chiller for next time but I'm not sure how I'll be able to consistently keep the temp around 65°-74° in this Texas weather. Any advice?
 
Even with an IC you will only be able to get it down to the temperature of your groundwater. As far as keeping fermentation temps cool, you could use a swamp cooler with frozen water bottles or wet tshirt with a fan blowing on it.
 
You mashed too thin.

You have 10 pounds of grain, but the Flanked Wheat and Torrified Wheat have no enzymes (diastatic power), so you really have 5 pounds of grain in 32 quarts. Thats almost a ratio of 6.4 : 1

Next time try heating less water, or removing some of the heated water and storing it in a pot.

Keep your water : grain ratio below 2.5 : 1

You dont have to mash thick 1.25 : 1, but if its too thin the enzymes are diluted and wont be as effective, and according to one of John Palmer's quotes, the enzymes break down (though I don't see why).

Maybe you can get away with such a thin mash if you mash at a lower temperature, for a longer time.
One time I did a BIAB with a thin mash and came in below 70%, missing my OC by several points.

Having a tight crush will also help.




>>Unfortunately I didn't have a way to cool the wort down further. We used an ice bath but it wouldn't drop below 80°. I'm thinking we will make an immersion chiller for next time but I'm not sure how I'll be able to consistently keep the temp around 65°-74° in this Texas weather. Any advice?

Occasionally Stir the wort in the ice bath. It will make a huge difference
 
Did you stir the mash?

In my early experiences with biab I found that I wasn't hitting my OG. My crush, pot volumes and temps were good but it wasn't until I started giving my mash a good 2-5min stir (prior to dough in, half way through mashing and prior to pulling the bag) did I see any significant change and now consistently hit my numbers.
 
Apologies to ArcLight but you did NOT mash too thin. BIAB uses the full volume of water to start with which usually results in a mash ratio of @ 3qts/lb grain or higher. (Yes, I'm saying Palmer was wrong but he is forgiven as he doesn't do BIAB)

Suggestions:

Crush a bit finer than you would for standard 3V brewing as there is no risk of a stuck sparge and the finer crush will expose more grain to the water.

Check your thermometer for accuracy (mashing too hot will effect OG)

Stir.....a lot!

Find a bag that will fit your pot. It's important that all the water be exposed to all of the grain and it's very difficult to accomplish this if the bag is too small. When sizing a bag, the rule of thumb is that the pot should be able to fit INSIDE the bag. This will insure that when the pot is lined with the bag all of the grain will be exposed to all of the water. (I'd be willing to bet this one change will get your efficiency numbers into the 80's).

Let us know how you make out next time around.
 
I disagree.

Enzymes do get diluted. There is probably some theoretical curve showing efficiency as a ratio of water to grain. Kai mentions that you can get good results at 2.5 : 1. But if you start going thinner and thinner, it's probably going to have an effect. (I still don't know why Palmer says the enzymes are destroyed if the mash is too thin)

Assuming you have a decent crush, I think if you use less water (meaning below 3:1), you will get better results.
3:1 can work, but the ratio the OP used was much higher. There were 5 pounds of grains with enzymes in 32 quarts of water.
Its not like above 3:1 wont work, of course you will get some conversion. But probably it's not optimal.

With BIAB, you dont have to use the full volume. You can hold back some water, say 1.5 gallons to sparge with, and mash "less thin", since you dont mash thick with BIAB.

My anecdotal evidence (for what thats worth) is I got the worst conversion with BIAB at 3+:1, compared to 2:1
Not terrible, maybe 64%, and I gave it 1 hour at 150 and 15 minutes at 156.


thughes said:
Apologies to ArcLight but you did NOT mash too thin. BIAB uses the full volume of water to start with which usually results in a mash ratio of @ 3qts/lb grain or higher. (Yes, I'm saying Palmer was wrong but he is forgiven as he doesn't do BIAB)

Suggestions:

Crush a bit finer than you would for standard 3V brewing as there is no risk of a stuck sparge and the finer crush will expose more grain to the water.

Check your thermometer for accuracy (mashing too hot will effect OG)

Stir.....a lot!

Find a bag that will fit your pot. It's important that all the water be exposed to all of the grain and it's very difficult to accomplish this if the bag is too small. When sizing a bag, the rule of thumb is that the pot should be able to fit INSIDE the bag. This will insure that when the pot is lined with the bag all of the grain will be exposed to all of the water. (I'd be willing to bet this one change will get your efficiency numbers into the 80's).

Let us know how you make out next time around.
Click to expand...
 
ArcLight said:
My anecdotal evidence (for what thats worth) is I got the worst conversion with BIAB at 3+:1, compared to 2:1
Not terrible, maybe 64%, and I gave it 1 hour at 150 and 15 minutes at 156.
Click to expand...

Again, no offense, but spend the next 2 years doing nothing but experimenting with BIAB and recording your results and then get back to us. ;)
 
thughes said:
Again, no offense, but spend the next 2 years doing nothing but experimenting with BIAB and recording your results and then get back to us. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree, just anecdotal evidence.

Someone should conduct an experiment.
Take the OPs grain bill, crush it properly, and conduct 2 mashes.
One the way he did it, and one thicker, say 2-1, and sparge with the extra water.

The key here is half the grain bill had no diastatic power.
 
Good point. It's not so much a too thin mash as insufficient enzymes. Having a bit of amylase lying around is great for these situations. It's very possible that an extra 30 minutes of mashing would have helped.

But for this particular problem, there are too many unknown variables. It could be insufficient enzymes for the amount of grain and water, or a bad crush, or a mash temperature issue, etc...

I see no point in mashing so thin and not doing a sparge. When I was doing BIAB, I always held about 2 gallons back to rinse the grain with. Consistently got 75-80% efficiency.
 
I use the full volume to mash. I do six gallon batches and mash in with about 8 gallons. I stir regularly and use a bag that lines the entire pot (made by wiserbrewer). I usually end up with around 80% efficiency and great beers.
 
I'd say the mash was not long enough. With only 50% malt the mash may need to be a bit more intense than just 60 min. To what extent the high water to grain ratio matters, I don't know. It should work, though.

b-amylase is denatured faster in thin mashes, but that only affects fermerntability and not efficiency. A-amylase matters for efficiency and that one should be just fine at 154 F.

Kai
 
GTaylor said:
Even with an IC you will only be able to get it down to the temperature of your groundwater. As far as keeping fermentation temps cool, you could use a swamp cooler with frozen water bottles or wet tshirt with a fan blowing on it.
Click to expand...

I was going to use an ice bucket with a pond pump to recycle the water. Hmm... I'll have to look into swamp cooler. I have an old mini fridge that won't fit a carboy but I wonder if i can make an enclosure that will use the compressor to keep it cool.

thughes said:
Apologies to ArcLight but you did NOT mash too thin. BIAB uses the full volume of water to start with which usually results in a mash ratio of @ 3qts/lb grain or higher. (Yes, I'm saying Palmer was wrong but he is forgiven as he doesn't do BIAB)

Suggestions:

Crush a bit finer than you would for standard 3V brewing as there is no risk of a stuck sparge and the finer crush will expose more grain to the water.

Check your thermometer for accuracy (mashing too hot will effect OG)

Stir.....a lot!

Find a bag that will fit your pot. It's important that all the water be exposed to all of the grain and it's very difficult to accomplish this if the bag is too small. When sizing a bag, the rule of thumb is that the pot should be able to fit INSIDE the bag. This will insure that when the pot is lined with the bag all of the grain will be exposed to all of the water. (I'd be willing to bet this one change will get your efficiency numbers into the 80's).

Let us know how you make out next time around.
Click to expand...

I'll have to get a finer grain then. I just used the standard crush that my LHBS does. I will check the thermometer for accuracy before the next brew. Might invest in a digital one too. I wasn't able to stir as well as I would've liked since the bag only fit over half the pot. I'm looking into getting a bigger bag. My pot is 15" in diameter and about 14.5" deep. This bag should work, right? http://www.defalcos.com/virtuemart....ge=flypage.tpl&product_id=1115&category_id=58

Thank you guys so much for the help :)
 
>b-amylase is denatured faster in thin mashes, but that only affects fermerntability and not efficiency. A-amylase matters for efficiency and that one should be just fine at 154 F.

Kai, can you explain this in more detail?
Am I correct in that you are saying - the OPs OG will be high but so will his FG, because it's not as fermentable?

For me, I want a fermentable wort, so I would not be happy with an efficiency number, that gives more unfermentables.

As one of your articles says, I tend to mash at 150F.

For teh OP, I'm curious how your final gravity ends.
 
b-amylase appears to be more heat liable at higher water to grain ratios. Here is some data from the Kunze book I have:

Narziss_data_beta_amylase_mash_thickness.gif


(Water to grist ratio)

This would mean that thinner mashes produce less fermentable wort if mashed at the same temperature as thicker mashes. But that has not been my experience. The literature is also divided on the effect of mash thickness on fermentability.

Kai
 
Hey guys,

So I'll be brewing again this Friday and wanted to get your input on the changes I've made to the brewing process. I'll be brewing the Nut Brown Ale by Lil' Sparky.

Code: 
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.90 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.77 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 14.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 22.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.9 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt          Name                                     Type        %/IBU         
9 lbs        Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain        76.6 %        
1 lbs        Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)    Grain        8.5 %         
1 lbs        Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                   Grain        8.5 %         
8.0 oz       Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                  Grain        4.3 %         
4.0 oz       Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)               Grain        2.1 %         
1.00 oz      Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop          14.4 IBUs     
1.00 Items   Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 20.0 mins)        Fining            
1.00 oz      Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop          7.9 IBUs      
1.0 pkg      Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml]       Yeast             


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name                   Description                             Step Temp     Step Time     
Saccharification       Add 9.76 gal of water at 158.6 F        152.1 F       75 min        
Mash Out               Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min              168.0 F       10 min

I will be doing the following things to ensure a better efficiency:

1) Check/calibrate thermometer.
2) Get a larger mash bag - one that is big enough for my pot to fit inside.
3) Have the grains crushed twice.
4) Do a longer mash.

We thought about sparing in a different pot but we want to give this method another try. Still don't have a wort chiller but have built ourselves a Son of Fermentation Chiller. I should be able to keep it fermenting at 65 without issues.

My main issue is the amount of water need to start. According to Beersmith I will need 9.76 gallons and that seems a bit high to me. I have a 10 gal kettle and my fear is that it'll overflow if I add that much water before the grains. Am I doing something wrong in Beersmith?

Any help is appreciated. Please let me know if you need anymore information.
 
1, What is your evaporation rate?
2. What does BeerSmith show as loss to Hops and Grain?
When I BIAB, I lose less than a gallon for 12 pounds. And I have some $6 heat /chemical resistant gloves from Home Depot that let be squeeze the hops bags I use, so I lose little wort, other than to the boil.

3.>>Post Boil Volume: 6.77 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal

You lose 1.25 gallons in dead space?


I think you need a gallon less water, based on less grain/hops wort loss, and you wont lose the 1.27 gallons between flame out and ferementor.

I suggest you try and calculate to the best of your ability how much wort you lose from the grain absorption.
Remember to drain and squeeze the bag. SCOOB = 0.6 gallons loss per pound of grain.
 
OrangesOfCourse said:
Hey guys,

I'm hoping you guys can give me some comment/critique my first BIAB. I can go ahead and list all the details and I would appreciate it if you guys could tell me where I went wrong.

I'm basing my recipe from BierMuncher's Blue Moon Clone.



Steps:

1) Started with 8 gallons strike water at 158°
2) Added grains to paint strainer bag (cover only half the kettle)
3) Mashed around 154° for 60 mins
4) Mashed-out around 168° for 10 mins.
5) Removed bag from kettle and squeezed everything we could from the bag.
6) Started boiling the wort
7) Added hops once we achieved a rolling boil and boiled for 60 mins.
8) Added coriander and orange peel at 10 and 5 mins prior to flame out.
9) Cooled the wort as low as we could in the sink (only got it down to 80°)
10) Transferred 5 gallons to a carboy and had ~1/2 gallon wort with trub.
11) Pitched yeast at 80° (Would not cool further as the house was hot)

Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.029
Post-Boil (Original Gravity): 1.033

According to BeerSmith our OG should have been 1.046 but we only achieved 1.033. Where did we go wrong?

Should we have used 2 paint strainer bags and clipped each over half the kettle and split the grains between them?
Did we not have enough water in the kettle prior to adding the grains?
What adverse effects will we get from pitching the yeast at 80°?

Please let me know if you need any more information.
Click to expand...


First thought. Did you adjust your OG measurements for temperature?


Here is how I calculate volumes using paint strainer bags.

5.5 Gal Batch: #10 Grain

5.5 Gallons+
1 Gallon (Evaporation 60 min boil)+
.73 Gallon (Grain Absorption)

Total: 7.23 Gallons

I seem to hit my volumes and my OG within a point.
 
ArcLight said:
1, What is your evaporation rate?
2. What does BeerSmith show as loss to Hops and Grain?
When I BIAB, I lose less than a gallon for 12 pounds. And I have some $6 heat /chemical resistant gloves from Home Depot that let be squeeze the hops bags I use, so I lose little wort, other than to the boil.

3.>>Post Boil Volume: 6.77 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal

You lose 1.25 gallons in dead space?


I think you need a gallon less water, based on less grain/hops wort loss, and you wont lose the 1.27 gallons between flame out and ferementor.

I suggest you try and calculate to the best of your ability how much wort you lose from the grain absorption.
Remember to drain and squeeze the bag. SCOOB = 0.6 gallons loss per pound of grain.
Click to expand...

Ok... so I have adjusted my equipment settings to better match my brewing setup and it seems to be a bit closer to what I could expect. I think my numbers were just way off before. Here are the new numbers:

1) Evaporation rate: 13.8/hr (I will measure this again after this brew)
2) Loss to hops and grains: Is this the same as grain absorption? If so it's at 0.86 gallons
3) After the changes my post boil volume is 6.24. That should be a loss of .74 gal. Sound right?

Here is the new recipe card:
Code: 
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.24 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 15.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 22.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        76.6 %        
1 lbs                 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)    Grain         2        8.5 %         
1 lbs                 Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                   Grain         3        8.5 %         
8.0 oz                Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                  Grain         4        4.3 %         
4.0 oz                Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)               Grain         5        2.1 %         
1.00 oz               Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           6        14.8 IBUs     
1.00 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 20.0 mins)        Fining        7        -             
1.00 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop           8        8.1 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml]       Yeast         9        -             


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name                   Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification       Add 8.35 gal of water at 157.2 F        152.1 F       75 min        
Mash Out               Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min              168.0 F       10 min

Attached is my Beersmith equipment profile.

Thanks for the help ArcLight!

beersmith-2-tiff.jpg
 
Jimmyjim said:
First thought. Did you adjust your OG measurements for temperature?


Here is how I calculate volumes using paint strainer bags.

5.5 Gal Batch: #10 Grain

5.5 Gallons+
1 Gallon (Evaporation 60 min boil)+
.73 Gallon (Grain Absorption)

Total: 7.23 Gallons

I seem to hit my volumes and my OG within a point.
Click to expand...

Yes I did adjust the OG for temp. I'm thinking that one of my biggest problem was not having a big enough grain bag. The grain was just sitting semi-packed in 1 paint strainer bag that only fit half my kettle. I have bought a new bag that fits my whole kettle and will stir it better this time. Also going to ground the grains a bit finer.

At least I'm getting better with each brew. Our first one didn't turn out as planned. Second also had a few issues but not as many as the first. The third hopefully have a lot less mistakes. :)
 
Much better! :mug:


OrangesOfCourse said:
Ok... so I have adjusted my equipment settings to better match my brewing setup and it seems to be a bit closer to what I could expect. I think my numbers were just way off before. Here are the new numbers:

1) Evaporation rate: 13.8/hr (I will measure this again after this brew)
2) Loss to hops and grains: Is this the same as grain absorption? If so it's at 0.86 gallons
3) After the changes my post boil volume is 6.24. That should be a loss of .74 gal. Sound right?

Here is the new recipe card:
Code: 
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.24 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 15.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 22.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        76.6 %        
1 lbs                 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)    Grain         2        8.5 %         
1 lbs                 Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                   Grain         3        8.5 %         
8.0 oz                Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                  Grain         4        4.3 %         
4.0 oz                Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)               Grain         5        2.1 %         
1.00 oz               Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           6        14.8 IBUs     
1.00 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 20.0 mins)        Fining        7        -             
1.00 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop           8        8.1 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml]       Yeast         9        -             


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name                   Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification       Add 8.35 gal of water at 157.2 F        152.1 F       75 min        
Mash Out               Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min              168.0 F       10 min

Attached is my Beersmith equipment profile.

Thanks for the help ArcLight!
Click to expand...
 
OrangesOfCourse said:
Yes I did adjust the OG for temp. I'm thinking that one of my biggest problem was not having a big enough grain bag. The grain was just sitting semi-packed in 1 paint strainer bag that only fit half my kettle. I have bought a new bag that fits my whole kettle and will stir it better this time. Also going to ground the grains a bit finer.

At least I'm getting better with each brew. Our first one didn't turn out as planned. Second also had a few issues but not as many as the first. The third hopefully have a lot less mistakes. :)
Click to expand...


Crush is critical.

First batch, I got numbers fairly close to yours.
After getting access to a mill and double crushing, my efficiency
now runs between 70-75%.
 
Jimmyjim said:
Crush is critical.

First batch, I got numbers fairly close to yours.
After getting access to a mill and double crushing, my efficiency
now runs between 70-75%.
Click to expand...

I concur with this. I just did my first BIAB after getting my own mill and I got 82%!:)
 
OrangesOfCourse said:
Hmm... never did check the thermometer. It came with a brewing kit and I figured it would be fine. I'll be sure to check on that before the next brew.



Unfortunately I didn't have a way to cool the wort down further. We used an ice bath but it wouldn't drop below 80°. I'm thinking we will make an immersion chiller for next time but I'm not sure how I'll be able to consistently keep the temp around 65°-74° in this Texas weather. Any advice?
Click to expand...

Not sure if this has been mentioned. (Fellow Texan here)
  1. IC - Cool as low as you can. (most likely 80-85 this time of year)
  2. Ice water bath to pitching temp, you have to continuously stir!
 
muhteeus said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned. (Fellow Texan here)
  1. IC - Cool as low as you can. (most likely 80-85 this time of year)
  2. Ice water bath to pitching temp, you have to continuously stir!
Click to expand...

We weren't able to make an immersion chiller for this next beer as funds were running low. I think we'll have to give ice water bath another go unless you guys have a different idea.
 
So I went to my LHBS today and got the ingredients for tomorrows brew day. I also got a voile curtain to use as a mash bag. I think we will just clip it into place this time and see how it goes. I wanted to get your opinion on both the curtain and grain crush.

Do you think this curtain is fine enough as a biab bag?

Is the grain crushed fine enough? I didn't double crush it this time... my LHBS has a second mill that is set to a finer tolerance then the one I used last time so I wanted to give this one a try.

biab-bag.jpg


grain-size.jpg
 
It's hard to tell from the picutre but it looks like it could be a little finer? Are all the hulls at least cracked? If not I've used a ziploc bag and wine bottle or rolling pin to crush the grain a bit more.

I BIAB as well so I error on the side of too fine, you don't have to worry about a stuck sparge with this method.
 
OK... So we brewed today and it seems to have gone better. The curtain worked out great but we did get a small tear in it. I think it might have been the spoon we were using. Today was the first time we were using a propane cooker so I think we will need to adjust our boil rate. I'm still trying to find an accurate way to measure the wort pre/post boil. Ideas?

Code: 
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 15.3 SRM		SRM RANGE: 12.0-22.0 SRM
IBU: 22.9 IBUs Tinseth	IBU RANGE: 20.0-30.0 IBUs
OG: 1.055 SG		OG RANGE: 1.040-1.052 SG
FG: 1.012 SG		FG RANGE: 1.008-1.013 SG
BU:GU: 0.415		Calories: 178.9 kcal/12oz	Est ABV: 5.6 %		
EE%: 72.00 %	Batch: 5.50 gal      Boil: 7.24 gal	BT: 60 Mins

Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.0 oz	Total Hops: 2.00 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.20 ------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        76.6 %        
1 lbs                 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)    Grain         2        8.5 %         
1 lbs                 Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                   Grain         3        8.5 %         
8.0 oz                Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                  Grain         4        4.3 %         
4.0 oz                Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)               Grain         5        2.1 %         


Name                   Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification       Add 8.35 gal of water at 157.2 F        152.1 F       75 min        
Mash Out               Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min              168.0 F       10 min        

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.046 SG	Est OG: 1.055 SG
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
1.00 oz               Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           6        14.8 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop           7        8.1 IBUs      
0.50 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)        Fining        8        -

Measured Pre-boil Gravity: 1.049
Measured Original Gravity: 1.058 (5 gal)

We were short .5 gallon in the fermenter so we topped off with some water. I forgot to take a gravity reading after I added the water. Is there anyway to calculate it?

A question about fermenting: I was planning on doing either a 2 week primary and then bottling for 3 weeks or 1 week primary and 1 week secondary then bottling for 3 weeks. Do you think that will be enough time in the fermenter? I can do a week primary and 2 weeks in the secondary but that only gives me 2 weeks in the bottle before thanksgiving.

Please let me know if you have any questions about the brew.

Thanks

cbehr said:
It's hard to tell from the picutre but it looks like it could be a little finer? Are all the hulls at least cracked? If not I've used a ziploc bag and wine bottle or rolling pin to crush the grain a bit more.

I BIAB as well so I error on the side of too fine, you don't have to worry about a stuck sparge with this method.
Click to expand...

The grains seem to work out fine but I will try doing a double crush next time. We hit our pre-boil gravity on the dot but were off by 3 points after the boil. I think we boiled too much water.
 
>>Measured Pre-boil Gravity: 1.049
Measured Original Gravity: 1.058 (5 gal)

>>We were short .5 gallon in the fermenter so we topped off with some water. I forgot to take a gravity reading after I added the water. Is there anyway to calculate it


1.058 measured with 4.5 gallons or 5?



0.5 is a dilution of 10% off of a 5 gallon batch.
1 + .058 * (5 / ( 5 + .5)) = 1.053

Off a 4.5 -> 5 its 1.052
1 + .058 * (4.5 / ( 4.5 + .5)) = 1.052
 
ArcLight said:
>>Measured Pre-boil Gravity: 1.049
Measured Original Gravity: 1.058 (5 gal)

>>We were short .5 gallon in the fermenter so we topped off with some water. I forgot to take a gravity reading after I added the water. Is there anyway to calculate it

1.058 measured with 4.5 gallons or 5?

0.5 is a dilution of 10% off of a 5 gallon batch.
1 + .058 * (5 / ( 5 + .5)) = 1.053

Off a 4.5 -> 5 its 1.052
1 + .058 * (4.5 / ( 4.5 + .5)) = 1.052
Click to expand...

Did you top off because you we're just short of water or was your gravity too high? If your gravity was ok, I would have just left it. Plus, was your water clean? It appears your gravity was okay based on your recipe. Just volume was off.
 
ArcLight said:
>>Measured Pre-boil Gravity: 1.049
Measured Original Gravity: 1.058 (5 gal)

>>We were short .5 gallon in the fermenter so we topped off with some water. I forgot to take a gravity reading after I added the water. Is there anyway to calculate it


1.058 measured with 4.5 gallons or 5?



0.5 is a dilution of 10% off of a 5 gallon batch.
1 + .058 * (5 / ( 5 + .5)) = 1.053

Off a 4.5 -> 5 its 1.052
1 + .058 * (4.5 / ( 4.5 + .5)) = 1.052
Click to expand...

We got 5 gallons into the fermenter and topped off with .5 gallons. Our gravity aim was 1.055.

divrguy said:
Did you top off because you we're just short of water or was your gravity too high? If your gravity was ok, I would have just left it. Plus, was your water clean? It appears your gravity was okay based on your recipe. Just volume was off.
Click to expand...

We topped off with bottle spring water that we used to brew so we will have enough when it comes time to bottle. Should we have not done this?

Over all I'd say this batch was a success. There are still a few areas we need to improve but I'm happy with the results so far.

Quick fermentation question: What temperature should I keep the fermentation chiller at to ferment around 63°?

Also: During the first day of fermentation I was unable to refrigerate the batch and it was sitting around 70-78. Will that cause me any harm?
 
OrangesOfCourse said:
We got 5 gallons into the fermenter and topped off with .5 gallons. Our gravity aim was 1.055.



We topped off with bottle spring water that we used to brew so we will have enough when it comes time to bottle. Should we have not done this?

Over all I'd say this batch was a success. There are still a few areas we need to improve but I'm happy with the results so far.

Quick fermentation question: What temperature should I keep the fermentation chiller at to ferment around 63°?

Also: During the first day of fermentation I was unable to refrigerate the batch and it was sitting around 70-78. Will that cause me any harm?
Click to expand...

I personally would prefer to have 4.5 gallons of beer coming out with the intended gravity, then having 5 gallons of beer that has been watered down a little bit to hit the desired volume. If I lose a six pack because of it, so be it. It still may taste good, just a little thinner than intended with the recipe.

I agree with the comments about making sure you stir your mash well to make sure your full volume of grist is getting saturated and hitting your desired temperatures. The bigger bag makes it much easier to do that. I consistently hit about 80% efficiency, but I grind my own and grind it finer than pictured.

Another handy toy to keep around is a refractometer. It makes it easier to monitor your conversion as you're mashing so you can adjust temperature and time as you go to hit your desired results.
 
Kaiser said:
b-amylase appears to be more heat liable at higher water to grain ratios. Here is some data from the Kunze book I have:

Narziss_data_beta_amylase_mash_thickness.gif


(Water to grist ratio)

This would mean that thinner mashes produce less fermentable wort if mashed at the same temperature as thicker mashes. But that has not been my experience. The literature is also divided on the effect of mash thickness on fermentability.

Kai
Click to expand...

Reading through the link you referenced with the image, the literature doesn't link the enzymatic activity to a conclusion that thinner mashes produce less fermentable wort. In fact Figure 7 and the associated comments draw the opposite conclusion with regard to conversion of malt starches and production of fermentable sugars, and concluded no impact on the ratio between fermentable extract and total extract.
Windisch_data_on_mash_thickness.gif

"Figure 7 shows data from mash experiments done by Windisch, Kolbach and Schild. It shows how the thinner mashes were able to convert more of the malts starch and also produce more fermentable sugars. But the ratio between fermentable extract and total extract (i.e. fermentability) remained largely constant over the range of mash thicknesses that were tested."

It loosely infers that the factors that prepare starches for conversion, and extracts those sugars into solution, operate better in thinner mashes, which more than compensates for the reduced enzymatic residual activity.

"while thick mashes offer better protection for the enzymes, they also inhibit the enzymatic activity through the reduced availability of free water and the sugars acting as competitive inhibitors [Briggs, 2004]. In addition to that the gelatinization of starch is also slower and happens at higher temperatures in thick mashes and as a result thinner mashes are known to give more fermentable worts at normal mashing temperatures."
 

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