Experimental Batches

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DKershner

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So, my co-worker was gracious enough to give me some of his old fermenters, some 1gal jugs. I was looking at how best to use these and thought of you guys.

What I need from you:
Ideas that you have had of the fairly experimental variety that for whatever reason you didn't feel like your brewery or budget could support.

I have 3 fermenters to try things out in, so that will be the limit for now on how many experiments we have going. I do have a bag of amylase enzyme I picked up awhile ago and have not used. I also have a PID hooked to a big rice cooker for any crazy mash ideas you guys can come up with.
No grain roasting or malting for now. I don't want to mess with the smell in my house on 100F days and I don't have any more room to grow things at the moment either.

1) For this one, I was thinking of trying out a Bob's GF Rolled Oats beer with some amylase enzyme and seeing what happens. Just a simple blonde with 100% oats.
2) Open.
3) Open.
 
I'd be really interested in doing several batches of 100% of any particular grain. Make the style be a pretty standard pale or blond. So that the grain, not the style is the focus.

My votes:
2. 100% Quinoa, should be similar to a 100% oat beer
3. 100% Millet. Nobody really does too much with this one, but it's cheap and readily available and I'd love to see more work with it.

Would be really nice if somebody sold some B-amylase and all the other enzymes we need since you won't be malting anything.
 
Would be really nice if somebody sold some B-amylase and all the other enzymes we need since you won't be malting anything.

You think that too many starches are going to be left behind? I really thought some alpha amylase would consume most of them...
 
I just don't think that unmalted grains will have much diastatic power. And thought that if there's some enzyme not natively in the grain, then maybe we could add it manually.

Honestly though, you know more about all-grain brewing than I and I would trust your better judgement.
 
I just don't think that unmalted grains will have much diastatic power. And thought that if there's some enzyme not natively in the grain, then maybe we could add it manually.

Honestly though, you know more about all-grain brewing than I and I would trust your better judgement.

Well, I think the unmalted grains should literally have zero diastatic power. Flaked corn and the like do, and they are not malted. It is barley's enzymes that obviously help it through.

By adding these enzymes, we would help it convert, but yes, we could be missing some which may not convert like they should. I don't really know. I do know that adding amylase enzyme to a fermenting beer can actually convert more starches to sugars and more comlpex sugars to simpler ones though, even after a mash with barley. So, maybe it will work out, I dunno.

I know more about all grain brewing with Barley than you, which is sort of like saying I know more about knife fighting when we are clearly fighting with guns. :mug:
 
Did you do a 100% rice beer yet? I've thought about it but changed my mind many times...I don't know how well the end product would taste.

Nope, just 84% BRS. I do wonder what a pile of minute rice with some amylase would be like...although perhaps BRS is the more sane choice.
 
I just don't think that unmalted grains will have much diastatic power. And thought that if there's some enzyme not natively in the grain, then maybe we could add it manually.

Both α-amylase and β-amylase are present in seeds; β-amylase is present in an inactive form prior to germination, whereas α-amylase and proteases appear once germination has begun. Cereal grain amylase is key to the production of malt. Many microbes also produce amylase to degrade extracellular starches. Animal tissues do not contain β-amylase, although it may be present in microrganisms contained within the digestive tract.

So...Beta amylase might be sitting there waiting to be used? Am I reading this right?
 
Nope, just 84% BRS. I do wonder what a pile of minute rice with some amylase would be like...although perhaps BRS is the more sane choice.

IF it were me and I had the time, BRS is the way I would go. If you try it let us know. My guess is that it will be light bodied, thin and pale. Some type of spices or hops would give you all the flavor...I bet dry hopping would do nice on this...

Just thinking out loud
 
IF it were me and I had the time, BRS is the way I would go. If you try it let us know. My guess is that it will be light bodied, thin and pale. Some type of spices or hops would give you all the flavor...I bet dry hopping would do nice on this...

Just thinking out loud

Yeah, those were my thoughts on my almost all BRS beer. Like I said though, the beer is white...like see through. It really does seem like the most basic beer ever created...

I think 100% BRS is a good idea. Let's see if we can make a beer that tastes like nothing but alcohol.
 
If you malt your own grain and do the roasting right you can make very good beers with just one type of grain. I have done this many times myself with millet ( the secret is in the malts, but I`ll never tell...) lol

as for the oats idea I dont see why it wouldnt work but I have not tried it.
 
If you malt your own grain and do the roasting right you can make very good beers with just one type of grain. I have done this many times myself with millet ( the secret is in the malts, but I`ll never tell...) lol
Could you at least give a couple of hints? On paper millet looks like a great gluten-free grain and I just started playing with it. Any hints or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hahaha, maybe I'll do one too. I got a bunch of 1 gallon fermenters, now I just need to find the time...

I have the same issue!

I really need to bottle my Tripel. And I've got 2 of those 1 gallon jugs, waiting for some experiment...
 
I have done this many times myself with millet ( the secret is in the malts, but I`ll never tell...) lol

You might be missing the point of these forums...

In any case, I may not be using all 3 for experiements due to my success with BRS, but I am liking the branstorming session.
 
Could you at least give a couple of hints? On paper millet looks like a great gluten-free grain and I just started playing with it. Any hints or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Millet is good for a base malt but I have not gotten the malting down 100% (kinda hard to tell if it is fully modified when it is that small)

http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/papers/2004/G-2004-1303-247.pdf

http://www.brewery.org/library/roastmaltGC.html

google can find about anything but only experience will make a good malt :(

You might be missing the point of these forums...

In any case, I may not be using all 3 for experiements due to my success with BRS, but I am liking the branstorming session.

how is the body/flavor and mouth feel with brs?
 
You think that too many starches are going to be left behind? I really thought some alpha amylase would consume most of them...

Remember, no enzyme can work unless it can come in contact with the starches. That's why particle size of carbohydrate grain sources is important and grains that are not malted need to be cracked. Malting works internally and adding enzymes to makes sugars need access to the substance of the grain where the starchs are found.

leeinwa
 
So then the 1st experiment should be 100% BRS...what style shall it be?
If these experiments are to be useful they need to all be the exact same style, hops schedule, and yeast.

The only way you can tell what is the difference the grain makes and what are the style differences is to keep that consistent amongst all the different varieties. While it might not be always the most interesting beer possible, in this case the fewer variables the better.

Malt: Focus on light-malts so that some accidental over-toasting doesn't throw off the flavors between batches.
Hops: Keep it a fairly mild variety and don't let the hops be dominant, but still good enough that you'll enjoy the final product.
Yeast: Safale US-05 or S-04
 
If these experiments are to be useful they need to all be the exact same style, hops schedule, and yeast.

The only way you can tell what is the difference the grain makes and what are the style differences is to keep that consistent amongst all the different varieties. While it might not be always the most interesting beer possible, in this case the fewer variables the better.

Malt: Focus on light-malts so that some accidental over-toasting doesn't throw off the flavors between batches.
Hops: Keep it a fairly mild variety and don't let the hops be dominant, but still good enough that you'll enjoy the final product.
Yeast: Safale US-05 or S-04

In my experience S-04 is a very clean finish with a great flavor..usually my choice yeast when I go to make a nice pale ale.
 
Malt: Focus on light-malts so that some accidental over-toasting doesn't throw off the flavors between batches.
Hops: Keep it a fairly mild variety and don't let the hops be dominant, but still good enough that you'll enjoy the final product.
Yeast: Safale US-05 or S-04

That's a good point but in the OP he said no roasting and no malting. I don't know of any commercially available gluten-free malted grains to use, but I could be wrong.
 
So then the 1st experiment should be 100% BRS...what style shall it be?

So ill do two of the bottles with a coffee beer experiment I already had planned, that should work well.

The third, I will just make a 100% BRS beer. Probably blonde or maybe a light lager if I really get ambitious.
 
There are guys in Aussie working with non malted grains and adding enzymes. I managed to get my hands on some and have given it a go with buckwheat, millet and chestnuts.

They recommend using pullulanase, alpha amylase, beta glucanase, amyloglucosidase, and a protease.

I contacted a company called novozymes, and they sent me out 100mL trial samples of each for free. I use between 1 and 3 mLs for each batch, so these "trials" will last quite a while.

I have to say that none of the brews I made were exceptional but they were all drinkable.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=39204&hl=gluten+free

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=33936&st=0&p=476237&#entry476237

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=35567&st=0&p=499703&#entry499703
 
There are guys in Aussie working with non malted grains and adding enzymes. I managed to get my hands on some and have given it a go with buckwheat, millet and chestnuts.

They recommend using pullulanase, alpha amylase, beta glucanase, amyloglucosidase, and a protease.

I contacted a company called novozymes, and they sent me out 100mL trial samples of each for free. I use between 1 and 3 mLs for each batch, so these "trials" will last quite a while.

I have to say that none of the brews I made were exceptional but they were all drinkable.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=39204&hl=gluten+free

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=33936&st=0&p=476237&#entry476237

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=35567&st=0&p=499703&#entry499703



Wine and beer making is chemistry, pure and simple. Natural chemistry works great and man induced chemistry CAN work great also. All the enyzmes being used is just another way to reach the same goal as natures way. More and more big breweries are using shortcuts with enzymes to go faster, use less expensive ingredients and save money. Malting is getting expensive for several reasons, but will probably give the best quality products due to the micro chemistry going on that we can't duplicate.

leeinwa
 
Malting is getting expensive for several reasons, but will probably give the best quality products due to the micro chemistry going on that we can't duplicate.

leeinwa

I definitley agree with that, while we can add in certain enzymes we will probably never be able to replicate exactly what is going on within the grain during the malting process.

Still most of the fun with home brewing is in the experimentation. Looking forward to hearing how these turn out.
 
I definitley agree with that, while we can add in certain enzymes we will probably never be able to replicate exactly what is going on within the grain during the malting process.

Still most of the fun with home brewing is in the experimentation. Looking forward to hearing how these turn out.

I know. That's why it took about 2 1/2 years to figure out the kinks of making beer with chestnuts.

leeinwa
 
The third, I will just make a 100% BRS beer. Probably blonde or maybe a light lager if I really get ambitious.

If I have time this weekend to get some BRS I'll do a 1 gallon test on this. Thats IF I have time- I am supposed to be brewing a pumpkin ale this weekend too. Not sure what style I'll do, let me look at what hops I have and go from there...maybe a light pale ale.

No MD on these just to see what happens, yeah?
 
If I have time this weekend to get some BRS I'll do a 1 gallon test on this. Thats IF I have time- I am supposed to be brewing a pumpkin ale this weekend too. Not sure what style I'll do, let me look at what hops I have and go from there...maybe a light pale ale.

No MD on these just to see what happens, yeah?

MD?

Good luck on the pumpkin, my jack-o-gluten is probably still my favorite gluten free beer I have tasted. We had a party where we served it in kegs and no one even noticed it was GF.
 
Well, you can always save it till later, but since the point is to see the characteristics of a 100% BRS beer, MD would modify the gravity.

I haven't use any in awhile anyway, and I have not found any problems with my FGs.

But, if you like it, then do whatever you want! Your BRS may not be equal to my BRS anyway.

My first 100% BRS beer will be made on the following weekend, although it won't be the best judge for taste since it is a holiday spice beer.
 
maybe I'll make the blonde you made with 84% BRS...just some different hops. What size are your experimental batches going to be?

My containers are 1gal...so I am thinking anything I make will be .75gal or maybe 1.5gal with something different amongst the fermenters.

I really don't know what to make now though. I had an idea today though, so we will see what I can come up with.
 
Mine are 1 gallon too. In the 1st tests I did, actually its in the similar threads section below, I made .75 gallons in the fermenter- I felt like I could have safely put more in there. We'll see, right?
 
Mine are 1 gallon too. In the 1st tests I did, actually its in the similar threads section below, I made .75 gallons in the fermenter- I felt like I could have safely put more in there. We'll see, right?

Ha! I had actually forgotten about that thread.

Well, if you or anyone else has something fairly simple to try, I am down to try it. I don't want to mess with cracking grain right now, as I am scared to used my barley crusher to crush anything. A lot of barley and wheat has been through that thing...

But you should run with the 100% BRS idea, I really think it will be the way to go for all extract GF beers. Make sure to add 1tsp yeast nutrient per gal.
 
I'm going to keep this simple:

1 lb 8 oz Brown Rice Syrup (30)
.1 oz Centennial 8.3% (60)
.1 oz Centennial 8.3% (2)

Don't know if it's in the spirit of a blonde but I guess it's close.

19.9 IBU
1.048 OG

I just need to figure out what yeast I am going to use, it will be one of the dry yeasts.
 
Looks good, go with S-05, you want it nice and dry.

And you may actually look up centennial blonde from Biermuncher, you are fairly close to his most famous creation.
 
Awesome, I'll check his recipe. It just so happened that I have some Centennial on hand! I'll pick up some S-05 this weekend, I've only ever used S-04 in the past. I think I'll go on and pitch the whole packet rather than measuring it out...or maybe half of it.
 
Awesome, I'll check his recipe. It just so happened that I have some Centennial on hand! I'll pick up some S-05 this weekend, I've only ever used S-04 in the past. I think I'll go on and pitch the whole packet rather than measuring it out...or maybe half of it.

I did half on my 2gal batch. Don't want to overpitch by too much, or you may get some off flavors from the other direction, although the risk is more minimal than underpitching.
 
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