Design Contest:Fermentation chiller/bookcase

Here is the deal: Send me a design based on the specs and rules I have below, and if I pick yours, I'll send you a 6 pack of brew

1) Dimensions are 6'10"high, 5'5" long, close to 20" deep (no more than 24", less is more, its a narrow room.

2)Bottom of the structure is the fermentation chamber/Storage cabinet. Must be able to hold 4 cornies, have 2 individually temp controlled fermentation chambers, and If you can manage a cabinet to hold various other brew supplies, you get extra points.

3)Bookshelf up above: Shelves must be large and sturdy enough to hold large textbooks (at least 13-14" high) I love shelf space, so the more you can give me the better.

4)Anyone can build anything with unlimited funds, so to keep this fair, shoot to keep the bill under or close to $200.

5)Supplies I already have and do not count towards the bill: 2 thermostats, 4 80mm 12V computer fans, 24 and 12 gage wire, and computer power supply (was going to build a chiller kind of like the son of fermentation chiller). I also have access to some OSB, 2x4's, and 2x6's. Most of this is scrap from home sites, so don't count on full pieces. I might also be able to get some r-13 attic batting, but this takes up alot of space, but its also free...

6)Ingenuity and extra features welcome! Think of stuff that would be cool (built in stirplate, desk space, power strip, desk lamp, etc.

7)It has to look nice and pass with SWMBO's seal of approval! Ease of construction is also a plus.

8)pictures are worth a 1000 words, diagrams are very welcome!

9)deadline is 2/29

Thanks!

Here are pictures of the room I want to put it in:



I have my own design that I came up with, but I want to see what interesting things ya'll can come up with

try the fermoire!! http://homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=45567&highlight=fermoire

ha ha, yeah, I have seen that one in person, and have stolen some of his ideas, I am mostly wanting to see if anyone can come up with additional original ideas that I couldn't come up with on my own. I have seen some really creative stuff that y'all have come up with and know you can do it!

Just imagine it this way: you have ~$200, the dimensions and needs that I posted above, what and how would YOU build it? If not that, what interesting things would you add to meet YOUR needs?

I thought this would be a fun way to either get some creative ideas to add to my design, or get an awesome design from someone else that just blows mine out of the water Besides, send me something cool, I might send you a six pack

Ok, I'll go first... Although I really like Erik's suggesion of building a Fermoire for some reason...........

This is a pretty crude drawing, and I didn't finish wrapping the base in the pretty oak color so that you can peek inside. I was thinking just cabinet doors to cover up the chamber, kinda like I did on mine.

First though, this is a pretty tall order man! I think with two cornies front-to-back in each of the two chambers, this would barrrrely come out under 24" if you stack up the insulation like I did on mine and accounted for some trim and cabinet doors. I've had pretty good results with the 2.25" foam, and would probably try and sway you into that rather than the foil backed stuff you mentioned. Just depends on whether you can get it into the budget or not. It's pretty expensive, but you're not doing too huge of a box. You'll need to come up with something for a base within the chamber if you do the foil. A full corny will crush the foil stuff if my distant memories of it are accurate. It's pretty delicate.

Anyway, this was kind a first pass at what I had in my head. I left a small area at the end that should be about 24" wide. Not huge, but you can get a chair under it. I left it this way b/c air is cheaper than wood. Having to allow for the corny height, it made the desk surface come out to about 34 inches. A little tall for a desk... I guess you could cut the surface into two sections and drop the desk portion down a little and anchor it to the side of the fermentation chamber.... It'd make the "desk" part feel pretty small though I think... roughly 24x24.

As for the fermentation chambers... Pretty tight in there! I've had really good luck with using frozen 2-liter bottles in mine, so that's the size I made this ice chamber. As for cooling, ducting takes up space and is why I wound up water-cooling mine. I think though that if you make the chamber next to the ice the one where you do cooler fermentations you can pull off air from it to chill your right-most one. I don't know how much would want to "leak" into the right chamber when your fans were off and it didn't really need to be cooled further. It might make that right chamber a little harder to control.

The shelves, I just kinda slapped together here. Would make them detachable so that you can have a better shot at getting this around the corners it needs to go around.

Sure you're never going to want to throw a carboy in there?





Something else I considered before I let my Fermoire design get out of control was going narrow and vertical kinda like the wardrobe below. That wouldn't help you with the shelving, but you could build some off the side of it and a little shallower. You wouldn't gobble up quite as much floor space this way, but you'd lose your nice 24x24 desk. <grin>

Ok, I started liking the vertical idea a little better and threw a quick visualization of it together. Again, it'd (of course) have some doors on the front to hide the ugly foam. You could either just do this cabinet and buy some seperate shelving, or go ahead and make it one unit. Going this way would let you have two ice chambers, so you could truly get two temps that weren't dependent on one another. If you left off the shelves, it's pretty small too. Looks like the footprint is about 24x27.

hum, vertical might be an option... hadn't thought that way... Thats why I love this forum!
Quick disclaimer, I wasn't planning on cooling the cornies, just storing them out of sight, but if I could temp control them in the space I have, Ill go for it!

When I get a few more ideas from people I will post the plans I have been drawing up to maybe get a few more peoples creative juices flowing.

Oh jas0420, I couldn't see most of the pictures you posted, not sure if its my computer of your links.

Hmm. Sometimes pbase does that to me.... Here are some direct links to click if they don't show up.


http://www.pbase.com/jas0420/image/92850654
http://www.pbase.com/jas0420/image/92850640


http://www.pbase.com/jas0420/image/92853827
http://www.pbase.com/jas0420/image/92853828
http://www.pbase.com/jas0420/image/92853829

wow, I like those! Ok, I see what you mean about throwing carboys in there, my plan was to have fermentation chamber for 2 carboys and storage for 4 cornies. Sorry for the confusion! The vertical looks great, the more I look at it the more and more I like the idea. It might give more room for shelves as well...

Oh, what program did you use to draw that up? It might be easier than just taking pictures of my rough sketches when I decide to post my original plan...

haha, ok, now the photos are popping up in the thread thanks for the links though!

Ok, I did misunderstand. Thought you were going all-corny for some reason. Was about to ask you for your Better Bottle! Haha!

Easy fix, and lookie there... already a spot to put your cornies.... Nah, may have to reconsider horizontal if you need to store all of that and still want shelves. 4 cornies should just fit where your desk segment was in the top entry.



Link: http://upload.pbase.com/update_image/92855805



Link: http://www.pbase.com/jas0420/image/92855806

Your right! A perfect spot to store cornies! Now where to put my text books...

Since I haven't gotten that much of a response (thank you Jas0420 for playing along ) I am going to go ahead and post a couple of the ideas I had:

This is pretty much like what Jas0420 posted, but instead of ice, using the guts of a small 1.7/2.4 cf mini fridge to cool one side(controlled by thermostat #1) and a 80mm fan between the two chambers connected to thermostat #2. I would always have to keep the one side cooler than the other, but I don't see a problem with lagering on one side and doing an ale on the other.

I will try to post more pictures later, but if anyone wants my google sketchup file to tweak or adjust, or totally do over, just let me know. I am still looking for some good ideas!

Hey deathweed,

Can you upload just your corney to the 3d warehouse. I couldn't find one in there and would like to save some time.

I usually use brewing, homebrewing, homebrew and some other key words to be sure people can find stuff.

Thanks

yeah, when I get home and double check the dimensions to make sure they are accurate, I can do that!

A more complete model, I will add the doors next.

so far materials on this I would have to buy/find:

some OSB and 2x4's (got a free source)
1 sheet 1/2" plywood, 1 sheet 1/4" plywood (may be able to get these free as well, if not ~$40
2" foam board $25
4 1x12's (probably have to buy these... ~$8 a piece=$32
mini fridge ~$30

Rough total so far minus hardware, stain, sealant, etc: ~$127

I only have a 1"divider between the chambers right now, I may up it to 2" if I can get it all out of one sheet, otherwise I think I can scrounge up some scrap 3/4" or 1" somewhere.

I think you're winning the contest so far.

When I did mine, I made a conscious decision to make a box within a box. I made the wood frame, and then within it, a sealed insulation box on the premise that wood would be transferring heat into the chamber.

Granted, only a small amount, but I didn't want to have to change ice very often... Probably not as big of a deal w/ a powered unit. But... if externally exposed parts of the wood gets cold enough (lager?) in our balmy weather here, it might form condensation/mold/rot.

Having the insulation all sealed toghether with gobs of caulking also makes for a nice waterproof barrier when things spill and condensation forms on your carboys. You might consider moving your foam base into the chamber for these reasons. Aside from the sealed foam box, I even put a film of plastic between my wood and foam and a coat of Thompsons Water Seal on the wood....

I probably tend to over-build though.

yeah, I was thinking about the mold/rot issue when I came up with this, but I was hoping a dousing in water sealer/some bathroom/utility water resistant latex paint, a little plastic on top, and a towel under the carboy to absorb whatever does spill/condense might save the wood enough so I could move that foam outside and get a little extra room + save on the crush factor on that foam.

I may be grossly mistaken, but dosnt wood serve as an alright insulator? Not the greatest, but surrounding the foam box with the plywood/OSB serves to add to the insulation. I may be mistaken though...

I'll play with the box in a box idea, and the vertical idea, see if I can get those to work out with the space I have.

Ok, here is my model with the doors. I have also uploaded it to the 3D warehouse
as "homebrew fermentation cabinet":


In the words of Johnny 5, "Need more input!"

Pretty cool! Where are you putting the compressor and other fridge guts?

here


I am past my 20" depth by an inch or 2, but I think I may be able to handle that... The room is really narrow (its that office that I hid when you were over:cross: ) and SWMBO is looking at getting her crap and the 2 bookcases we have in there now out of there (hence the permission for this project) so we can put a futon for guests on the opposite wall. I thing a 22"-24" depth will be ok, but I will see If I can squeeze a few more inches out of this drawing....

Maybe make the other chamber your cold one and slightly shorten the depth of that bottom cubby hole in your "corny closet" and fit the compressor in that pocket to make it flush with the back. ?

Or if it came to it (would imagine you're going to be limited on splitting the fridge parts up into convenient locations unless you have an HVAC friend) possibly even putting the entire set of fridge parts (coil, compressor, etc) in where you have the cubby holes now, and add one more fan in that area to exhaust out heat out of the cabinet that's generated from the coils......

(if you have depth problems caused by the compressor, that is)

hummm, good point... I will have to think on that as well..

I had thought of trying to find an old r134 compressor, and automotive expansion valve, and a couple heat exchangers from a scrap yard and putting my own refrigeration system together, but I have the feeling that would turn into a giant mess of a project. This being a college town, I am sure I could go to just about any pawn shop and fine a mini fridge for fairly cheap. Whatever fridge I find is going to determine how the final cabinet goes together.

I was planning on using one of those shelves near the cornies for the power supply for the fans and thermostats, it wouldn't take much more to put the compressor down there as well if I am able to bend everything around.

Unless I get some radical ideas by this or next weekend, or some "this definitely wont work because..." I may be running around to see what kind of fridges I can pick up...

This is starting to look more like a bar hutch

I may need to look into this..

deathweed said:

A more complete model, I will add the doors next.
View attachment 4437
so far materials on this I would have to buy/find:

some OSB and 2x4's (got a free source)
1 sheet 1/2" plywood, 1 sheet 1/4" plywood (may be able to get these free as well, if not ~$40
2" foam board $25
4 1x12's (probably have to buy these... ~$8 a piece=$32
mini fridge ~$30

Rough total so far minus hardware, stain, sealant, etc: ~$127

I only have a 1"divider between the chambers right now, I may up it to 2" if I can get it all out of one sheet, otherwise I think I can scrounge up some scrap 3/4" or 1" somewhere.

Click to expand...

Here is take 2:

From the rear:

And close up of the workings and the fans to help cool them, Includes compressor, hot side coils, and PC power supply.


Let me know what y'all think!

Nice job. Keep us updated with pics once you get started...

This is a good resource for dismantling a fridge and putting it back together in a customized box: cold box

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=35125

I could take you a picture of the cube fridge I took apart the other day to make a lagering box out of.. It's one of the type that has the condensor coils (hot side) embedded in the casing, which is the most common type these days.

I know the question has been raised of whether or not the mini fridge compressors can handle a larger space.. I've examined a lot of mini fridges, and I can confidently say that the 4.3 cu ft models have the same compressor as the 1.8cf. The single biggest improvement you could make would be to put a small fan blowing on the evaporator, this will help prevent condensation and freezing on the coil, as well as increasing the cooling capacity (and speed) greatly. A fan on the hot side coils would also help, but not as much.

I'm planning on making a lagering box large enough to hold a single carboy, or 2-4 kegs.

deathweed said:

I will try to post more pictures later, but if anyone wants my google sketchup file to tweak or adjust, or totally do over, just let me know.!

Click to expand...

Still got that SketchUp? I just installed the program and it's FREAKIN AWESOME!
(Where have I been for the past 24 months??????? Under a rock????)

with a 200 budget if it were me being sometimes an unhandy guy I would just buy a used chest freezer, build a box on the inside of it put fans, and thermo 2 on the box and thermo 1 on the freezer, then just build a box around the with a bookshelf across the top, but still allow it to open. Kinda similar to what Lonnie Mac used to make his bar

chriso said:

Still got that SketchUp? I just installed the program and it's FREAKIN AWESOME!
(Where have I been for the past 24 months??????? Under a rock????)

Click to expand...

Yeah, if you go to "get models" in sketchup and search for "fermentation" in the 3d warehouse, mine should be one of the two results you get.

Mirilis said:

with a 200 budget if it were me being sometimes an unhandy guy I would just buy a used chest freezer, build a box on the inside of it put fans, and thermo 2 on the box and thermo 1 on the freezer, then just build a box around the with a bookshelf across the top, but still allow it to open. Kinda similar to what Lonnie Mac used to make his bar

Click to expand...

Good idea, but i had limited depth in the room I wanted/was allowed to put this in. Besides, I have almost finished it, just need to do the trim and paint!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=65929

that looks pretty nice. Thats something I need to build one of these days.. right after I finish my Brutus 10 build (assuming SWMBO lets me finish)