Pressure Canning Starter Wort Process

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chief764

chief764

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I thought I'd share my process for canning starter wort. This seems to be the easiest method for me.

Here's a list of items I use during the process:
- Presto model 1781 23-quart aluminum pressure cooker/canner.
- Bottling bucket.
- 14 one-quart wide-mouth mason jars with new lids.

Recipe for a 1.040 wort that just fills 14 one-quart mason jars:
3 lbs. light DME
3.25 gal. water

Mix the DME and cold water in the bottling bucket until fully dissolved.

Canning process:
Make sure the canning rack is in the bottom of the canner. Fill 7 mason jars from the bottling bucket's spigot. Place the lids on the jars and place them in the canner. I follow the instructions from the canner's manual for adding water, venting, etc. then process the jars of wort for 25 minutes at 15 lb. pressure. Repeat for the other 7 jars.
 
Thanks for this. I've been considering doing the same thing. How do you store the canned wort? Is room temperature safe, since it's canned, or is refrigeration a must?
 
If you are pressure canning wort, it would be best not to sample the starter, nor to empty it into your wort. Even decanting the starter could still have enough botulism toxin to be harmful. I know that everyone says that you won't get botulism from pressure canned wort, and that somehow canned food are magically "sterile", but once the boiling stops, and fresh air moves into the canner, there is a chance that Clostridium botulinum spores could make it into your wort. Regular wort is not acidic enough to prevent the growth of C. botulinum and since you would be adding the contents of your start after the boil, the toxin would not be denatured by heating. This is straight from the fda website "Most of the 10 to 30 outbreaks that are reported annually in the United States are associated with inadequately processed, home-canned foods [...]". I know this is "chicken little" thinking, but seriously it is worth it? Probably not. Even refridgeration may not be enough, as the Colorado State University wesite states the 4 of the 7 types can grow at 38F. Seriously, people die from this quite often, and the bacterium is everywhere in the soil and floating around in the air. Will your starter get contamined with botulism toxin, probably not. Will I take the chance, no!

http://www.fda.gov/food/foodsafety/foodborneillness/foodborneillnessfoodbornepathogensnaturaltoxins/badbugbook/ucm070000.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6026a5.htm?s_cid=mm6026a5_x

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html/
 
theredben said:
If you are pressure canning wort, it would be best not to sample the starter, nor to empty it into your wort. Even decanting the starter could still have enough botulism toxin to be harmful. I know that everyone says that you won't get botulism from pressure canned wort, and that somehow canned food are magically "sterile", but once the boiling stops, and fresh air moves into the canner, there is a chance that Clostridium botulinum spores could make it into your wort. Regular wort is not acidic enough to prevent the growth of C. botulinum and since you would be adding the contents of your start after the boil, the toxin would not be denatured by heating. This is straight from the fda website "Most of the 10 to 30 outbreaks that are reported annually in the United States are associated with inadequately processed, home-canned foods [...]". I know this is "chicken little" thinking, but seriously it is worth it? Probably not. Even refridgeration may not be enough, as the Colorado State University wesite states the 4 of the 7 types can grow at 38F. Seriously, people die from this quite often, and the bacterium is everywhere in the soil and floating around in the air. Will your starter get contamined with botulism toxin, probably not. Will I take the chance, no!

http://www.fda.gov/food/foodsafety/foodborneillness/foodborneillnessfoodbornepathogensnaturaltoxins/badbugbook/ucm070000.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6026a5.htm?s_cid=mm6026a5_x

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html/
Click to expand...


no. you might be thinking of a hot water bath. pressure cookers are tottaly sealed and at 15psi its over 240f in there which is hot enought to kill anything.. the bottles seal before they see air.. the only people who get botulism make mistakes, or just do water bath methods of canning with food that is not acidic..
 
No, I am talking about a "sealed" canner. While I realize they are actually quite safe, I just want to get the message across that these things need to be handled carefully. Since you are not cooking these things when using, you do need to be quite careful.
 
Interesting. Once the beer ferments out, ph should drop and it should die?
 
I think I'm with Greenbasterd on this; the pressure canning process will kill absolutely everything, the jars are sealed while they are still under very high heat and pressure, and the jars are not unsealed until use. So how does the bacteria get introduced to the wort?
 
If you are an idiot don't can your wort or you might make it on the Darwin award list. If you are reasonably intelligent then you might be able to can your wort and survive. Welcome to the easier side of making started wort.

It doesn't easier than this.
 
and what would be the difference between canned wort, or canned or bottled extract bought from a brewing shop?
 
theredben said:
If you are pressure canning wort, it would be best not to sample the starter, nor to empty it into your wort. Even decanting the starter could still have enough botulism toxin to be harmful. I know that everyone says that you won't get botulism from pressure canned wort, and that somehow canned food are magically "sterile", but once the boiling stops, and fresh air moves into the canner, there is a chance that Clostridium botulinum spores could make it into your wort. Regular wort is not acidic enough to prevent the growth of C. botulinum and since you would be adding the contents of your start after the boil, the toxin would not be denatured by heating. This is straight from the fda website "Most of the 10 to 30 outbreaks that are reported annually in the United States are associated with inadequately processed, home-canned foods [...]". I know this is "chicken little" thinking, but seriously it is worth it? Probably not. Even refridgeration may not be enough, as the Colorado State University wesite states the 4 of the 7 types can grow at 38F. Seriously, people die from this quite often, and the bacterium is everywhere in the soil and floating around in the air. Will your starter get contamined with botulism toxin, probably not. Will I take the chance, no!

http://www.fda.gov/food/foodsafety/foodborneillness/foodborneillnessfoodbornepathogensnaturaltoxins/badbugbook/ucm070000.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6026a5.htm?s_cid=mm6026a5_x

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html/
Click to expand...

That's ridiculous. Pressure canning is fine. 10-30 outbreaks is not 'common.' It happens when people can carrots and beef stew without pc. Have you ever driven a car on the freeway?
 
StMarcos said:
That's ridiculous. Pressure canning is fine. 10-30 outbreaks is not 'common.' It happens when people can carrots and beef stew without pc. Have you ever driven a car on the freeway?
Click to expand...

Over 40,000 Americans die in traffic accidents every year.

443,000 die from tobacco every year.

75,000 deaths are alcohol related every year.

10-30 outbreaks of botulism is actually a success story.
It's nuts what people pick and choose to freak out over.
 
Cook in a pressure canner for 15 minutes at 15 lbs. Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal. It's not rocket science.

People get sick when they don't can properly, meaning they do a hot water bath instead of pressure canning foods when they need to.
 
Botulism can't live in the presence of oxygen that's why boiling and vacuum sealing jars alone presents a small risk. If you're pressure cooking for 15+ minutes at 240+ degrees everything is killed in the jars... everything.

Saying ambient air getting into a sealed cooker could cause botulism is silly.

That is unless you pressure canned them, waited for the cooker to cool, opened the jars, boiled the jars again and then re-vacuum sealed them to remove the oxygen. Nobody would do that.

The only time I dump pressure canned wort is if the jar didn't seal.
 
Homercidal said:
Cook in a pressure canner for 15 minutes at 15 lbs. Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal. It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

I agree but I put the lids on the jars before putting them in the pressure cooker. That way they're sealed at the end before opening the cooker.
 
scoundrel said:
I agree but I put the lids on the jars before putting them in the pressure cooker. That way they're sealed at the end before opening the cooker.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I thought they said to boil the lids separately. I'll have to check again.

Don't the lids come off the jars in the canner?
 
Homercidal said:
Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal.
Click to expand...

What does that mean? I just leave the whole contraption alone to cool down after I turn off the burner. Are you supposed to do something else? I thought you wanted to make sure that you didn't cool the jars too quickly.

Homercidal said:
People get sick when they don't can properly, meaning they do a hot water bath instead of pressure canning foods when they need to.
Click to expand...

Right, or don't can at a high enough pressure or for long enough (or, per the linked website from Colorado, fail to account for elevation changes), or don't check to make sure the seals took.

I mean look - the poster above isn't completely wrong; I'm sure that pressure canning wort isn't ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABSOLUTELY SAFE, but from all I've read, it's damn safe. As in, I'm probably more likely to blow up my propane tank while brewing than I am to get botulism from a carefully-canned jar of starter wort.
 
Homercidal said:
Hmm... I thought they said to boil the lids separately. I'll have to check again.

Don't the lids come off the jars in the canner?
Click to expand...


No they stay on fine. You don't have to put the rings on until after if you want, but if you lay the lids on top, by the time the cooker cools, the jars will have sealed.

I just put them on, don't screw them down completely, then tighten them once I open the cooker.
 
ResumeMan said:
I mean look - the poster above isn't completely wrong; I'm sure that pressure canning wort isn't ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABSOLUTELY SAFE, but from all I've read, it's damn safe. As in, I'm probably more likely to blow up my propane tank while brewing than I am to get botulism from a carefully-canned jar of starter wort.
Click to expand...

I think you'd have a higher chance at a free trip to the moon than to get botulism after cooking wort for 15 min at 240 degrees. Nothing in the wild lives at 240 degrees because the only way to achieve this temperature on planet earth is with a pressure cooker or autoclave (or maybe some specialized pressure equipment I don't know of). Seriously, thanks chief764 for spreading the word on pressure cooking starters. If done right, it really is safe.

Edit: I just want to be clear that when I talk about nothing living at 240, it relates to the boiling point based on atmospheric pressure. A pressure cooker changes the atmospheric pressure to allow the temp to get above 212.
 
scoundrel said:
No they stay on fine. You don't have to put the rings on until after if you want, but if you lay the lids on top, by the time the cooker cools, the jars will have sealed.

I just put them on, don't screw them down completely, then tighten them once I open the cooker.
Click to expand...

Actually it is my understanding that it's essential to have the lids on before canning - otherwise you won't get the seal made tightly by the vacuum caused as the temperature drops.

And I think you should have the rings on in the first place, to make sure that the lids don't get thrown off-kilter during the boil. The first time I tried canning, I only screwed the rings on part-way, and I had several of the jars fail to seal. The next time I turned them on all the way, but not tight (till the ring stopped turning, but with no force), and they all sealed.

And then once they are sealed the rings are totally optional, as the vacuum will hold the lid on tight (and if it doesn't it means you had a bad seal to begin with).
 
ResumeMan said:
What does that mean? I just leave the whole contraption alone to cool down after I turn off the burner. Are you supposed to do something else? I thought you wanted to make sure that you didn't cool the jars too quickly.
Click to expand...

See below...


scoundrel said:
No they stay on fine. You don't have to put the rings on until after if you want, but if you lay the lids on top, by the time the cooker cools, the jars will have sealed.

I just put them on, don't screw them down completely, then tighten them once I open the cooker.
Click to expand...

Sweet! The way I had seen to do it was to boil the lids and then place them on the jars right after the lid was opened.

Instructions for the canner showed how to cool the thing with some water poured over it. This may work great for cooking food, but for canning liquids, all it does is to cause the jars to boil over. I wasn't sure if there was any "boiling" going on when you just let it cool on it's own.
 
ResumeMan said:
Actually it is my understanding that it's essential to have the lids on before canning - otherwise you won't get the seal made tightly by the vacuum caused as the temperature drops.

And I think you should have the rings on in the first place, to make sure that the lids don't get thrown off-kilter during the boil. The first time I tried canning, I only screwed the rings on part-way, and I had several of the jars fail to seal. The next time I turned them on all the way, but not tight (till the ring stopped turning, but with no force), and they all sealed.

And then once they are sealed the rings are totally optional, as the vacuum will hold the lid on tight (and if it doesn't it means you had a bad seal to begin with).
Click to expand...

Ya, I agree. I turn them all the way but don't tighten them until it's done and have only had one not seal.

Like you said the vacuum will keep the lids on and that's why I mentioned it, but you might as well screw the rings on too.
 
FWIW I've not had a bad seal doing it the way I have done it after several batches... YMMV.

But I'll try with the lids on next time as it will make it an absolutely sanitary process, not to mention much easier.
 
I have never used a dry yeast so I want to be sure I have the whole process down? After I safely get my starter canned I can then pull a perfectly sanitary jar out and pitch dry yeast into it? Like into a gallon carboy or something with an airlock on it? Should this be done the day before I brew?
 
No, you're mistaking what this is used for.

For dry yeast, you don't want to make a starter (this is discussed elsewhere). Just re-hydrate the yeast and pitch.

The starter is for liquid yeast (e.g. Wyeast or White Labs). You want to put the yeast in a starter to grow to the quantity of yeast you need; refer to mrmalty.com or yeastcalc.com.

Many brewers make starters the "old fashioned" way, by boiling up some DME in water, cooling it, and putting the yeast into it. What's discussed in this thread is an alternate approach to make the starter in advance, safely.

Either way you make the starter, you'll put it into an appropriately sized container, from a liter to a gallon or more. If you've got one, use a stirplate, that grows the most yeast per starter volume. Usually an airlock is not recommended, because you want the yeast to get lots of oxygen, and an airlock keeps out the O2. Put a piece of foil or a foam stopper on the container to keep dust and critters out.
 
This thread is inspiring me to try some new things and buy new toys.

So what is the shelf life of these canned worts?
 
tom_gamer said:
This thread is inspiring me to try some new things and buy new toys.

So what is the shelf life of these canned worts?
Click to expand...

Mine never sit around for more than 6 months (especially when I "step up" starters), but I'm sure they would be fine for much longer than that.
 
Homercidal - This is the kind of thing that worries me, what do you mean by "cover jar quickly"? Having the jars exposed to the air after cooking is exactly the problem with improper canning. THAT IS HOW THE SPORES GET IN! Not only that, but 15 minutes AT 15 psi is not sufficient when home canning. All sources recommend 25 minutes for liquids. While 15 minutes is sufficient in a proper autoclave (but most people use 20 minutes for 1 liter), the uncertainty of a home setting requires a few more minutes at temperature to ensure sterilization. Your comment about it not being rocket science may be true in regards to difficulty of the work, but safety with proper canning methods are just as important as rocket science.

Homercidal said:
Cook in a pressure canner for 15 minutes at 15 lbs. Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal. It's not rocket science.

People get sick when they don't can properly, meaning they do a hot water bath instead of pressure canning foods when they need to.
Click to expand...

To be clear everyone, the post I made on page 1 was a bit of hyperbole to scare off those who are not sure what they are doing. The post above shows an EXCELLENT example of what I am talking about. I knew if I waited long enough, people would prove my point. Also, I have not seen a single mention of the fact that canning times NEED to be lengthened when cooking at altitude due to decrease in atmospheric pressure.

Scoundrel - Not to be too nitpicky, but there are organisms that can survive the autoclave, especially for short periods of time

This is through Google Translate, hopefully it works.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSterilisation&act=url

At if that is not enought, here is another one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolobus_fumarii
 
Veedo said:
Interesting. Once the beer ferments out, ph should drop and it should die?
Click to expand...

With botulism, it is not the bacteria that causes the problem, it is the toxin they produce. Even if the bacteria die off, the contaminated product is still poisonous. Cooking at high heat for 10+ minutes will denature (remove) the toxin, but with beer obviously that would not be a good idea.
 
Also, I have not seen a single mention of the fact that canning times NEED to be lengthened when cooking at altitude due to decrease in atmospheric pressure.
Click to expand...

Not to be a smartass, but:

ResumeMan said:
Right, or don't can at a high enough pressure or for long enough (or, per the linked website from Colorado, fail to account for elevation changes), or don't check to make sure the seals took.

[...]
Click to expand...

:mug:
 
theredben said:
Homercidal - This is the kind of thing that worries me, what do you mean by "cover jar quickly"? Having the jars exposed to the air after cooking is exactly the problem with improper canning. THAT IS HOW THE SPORES GET IN! Not only that, but 15 minutes AT 15 psi is not sufficient when home canning. All sources recommend 25 minutes for liquids. While 15 minutes is sufficient in a proper autoclave (but most people use 20 minutes for 1 liter), the uncertainty of a home setting requires a few more minutes at temperature to ensure sterilization. Your comment about it not being rocket science may be true in regards to difficulty of the work, but safety with proper canning methods are just as important as rocket science.



To be clear everyone, the post I made on page 1 was a bit of hyperbole to scare off those who are not sure what they are doing. The post above shows an EXCELLENT example of what I am talking about. I knew if I waited long enough, people would prove my point. Also, I have not seen a single mention of the fact that canning times NEED to be lengthened when cooking at altitude due to decrease in atmospheric pressure.

Scoundrel - Not to be too nitpicky, but there are organisms that can survive the autoclave, especially for short periods of time

This is through Google Translate, hopefully it works.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSterilisation&act=url

At if that is not enought, here is another one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolobus_fumarii
Click to expand...

Well there you go! You learn something new all the time. The canning information that I read, that came from the canner, seemed to claim that 15 minutes at 15 PSI was pretty much the maximum required for this process. Granted, they did not list bread or grain as a canned item, so I had to use vegetables as a guideline.

So I guess I should start canning at 15 PSI for 30 minutes, just to be safe. I don't want to be one of the millions of people who die from improper canning methods each year.
 
Homercidal - Could you explain what you meant by covering the jars quickly? You cannot have the open jars exposed to the air for even a second. Are you canning without the lids on?
 
theredben said:
Homercidal - Could you explain what you meant by covering the jars quickly? You cannot have the open jars exposed to the air for even a second. Are you canning without the lids on?
Click to expand...

Well I have, but not any longer. It's only Starter wort anyway, so there is no real danger of getting sick. Unless I drink the canned wort without boiling first, as the boiling destroys the toxin.

As I said, you learn something new all the time.
 
Homercidal said:
Well I have, but not any longer. It's only Starter wort anyway, so there is no real danger of getting sick. Unless I drink the canned wort without boiling first, as the boiling destroys the toxin.

As I said, you learn something new all the time.
Click to expand...

It seems learning something new is what this hobby is all about... at least for me. :)

That, and drinking good homebrew!

:mug:
 
Homercidal said:
It's only Starter wort anyway, so there is no real danger of getting sick. Unless I drink the canned wort without boiling first, as the boiling destroys the toxin.
Click to expand...

Sorry for harping on this since you're changing your technique, but you do drink your starter wort without boiling it first, at least a little of it, right? We grow up the yeast in the starter, decant most of it, and then dump the yeast - with whatever remaining liquid it's mixed in - into the real wort. No boiling. If there was a culture of botulism spores in there, it's now in your beer.

The danger is still fairly low, but not nearly as low as it needs to be. Honestly, if I were you, I'd start practicing my new technique right away, and dump anything I had sitting on the shelves now.
 
Now that I think about it, there is still a danger because the boil happens before you add the yeast. The alcohol and pH probably won't affect the toxin (but it will kill the botulism).

I guess I'll have to risk it. I think I have a couple of jars of starter wort left. I wonder what the odds of some spores finding their way into the jars is...

EDIT: Posted at the same time.
 
I would toss those questionable jars in the pressure canner for 20 minutes to be sure (that is if you are not willing to toss them). By the way it is fine to fully tighten the lids before pressure canning.

On another note. Not sure if this was mentioned, but I put my jar on a scale and zero it. Then measure 100g of DME and add a quarter tsp of nutrients. then I add tap water. The DME gets dissolved in the pressure canning process. No need to mix or use a bottling bucket that will need to be cleaned. Just works better for me.

I cook mine for 20 minutes, then let it cool naturally for a few hours before openning the lid on the cooker.
 
cosmo said:
I would toss those questionable jars in the pressure canner for 20 minutes to be sure (that is if you are not willing to toss them). By the way it is fine to fully tighten the lids before pressure canning.
Click to expand...

Oh, right. That makes more sense than just chucking them.

cosmo said:
On another note. Not sure if this was mentioned, but I put my jar on a scale and zero it. Then measure 100g of DME and add a quarter tsp of nutrients. then I add tap water. The DME gets dissolved in the pressure canning process. No need to mix or use a bottling bucket that will need to be cleaned. Just works better for me.

I cook mine for 20 minutes, then let it cool naturally for a few hours before openning the lid on the cooker.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I do (amount of DME depending on jar size; 1 gm per 10 ml).
 

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