The FerMonitor Lives

Hello again,
I have been working into the wee hours trying to duplicate my success with the real-time fermentation monitor that I have been perfecting in my "spare time" over the past 12 years (measures real-time SG, %alcohol, BRIX, temperature, pressure). I am having good success and have also found some better methods for building these, but I have not yet found a way to significantly reduce the cost of the unit. I have patent pending status on the invention now. I have some programmers working to create the program in .NET framework so it can be used by anyone with a PC (versus requiring MS Excel). I expect to have these ready for sale in the spring of 2009. Looks like the price will be ~ $500 for one and $850 for two. I realize this kind of price tag knocks out about 75% of the homebrewing community but I also don't want to cut any corners and distribute junk. I think the best way to begin to sell these and establish a good reputation is to attend homebrewer conventions and make contact - I will be doing that as much as I can afford. I appreciate the mega-interest that many of you showed and I welcome any further insight from the group!

Sounds conceptually interesting, but I wouldn't be in the market for one myself.

My understanding is that if you are going to sell products on this forum, you should have a vendor subscription/membership.

Correct, but these are not yet available for sale. I am only following up on the promise that I would try to keep the community updated on progress and plans. Thanks for the reply,

For those you don't remember, here is the earlier thread.

This looks awesome! I hope it works out for you.

I have received the beta version and have been tinkering while I get my act together - I just received my new 6.5 gallon carboy from Midwest Supplies - I managed to break the one I've been using for years. This thing is awesome, love the software! I plan to brew later this month so the FerMonitor should be in action soon. I have 2 kits (IPA and a cream stout). I'm thinking cream stout would be fun. I'll post my results here!

Hey jmansfield,
Any update on the fermonitor thing? $500 is a bit out of my range - do you think that is still the price range? I found the fermonitor.com website but there is almost nothing there - is this project still alive? I appreciate any info on this, thanks,

I have to defer to jmansfield on this one but I am fairly certain it is very much alive. I have one of the prototypes and it is very cool. I have used it several times in the past year and it is becoming a bit of a crutch for me. A friend of mine is a manager at a microbrewery and his owners want to install these on their fermenters and display on a plasma screen so customers can see what is going on. I think that would be cool but I figure most people would be pretty clueless. No idea on price but his webpage says they'll be selling in fall 2010.

I have been meaning to add an update for several months now - thanks for the reminder. As you saw, I have created an LLC and I have a website! The probe has been complete for some time now with only a few lingering debates about preferred electrical connections and computer interface details. We spent alot of effort trying to get the cost down and I am happy to say we made major improvements - I expect the probes to be in the $100 range (providing analog output that is proportional to SG. The optional computer interface would add another ~$100. The interface can support up to 4 probes - something that is often requested.

I am working through all the legal and government hurdles now and I hope to be selling them this summer (definitely by the fall though). The website is pretty new but I already get lots of email from the [email protected] address - you can reach me there directly if you would like more info,

jmansfield said:

Looks like the price will be ~ $500 for one and $850 for two. I realize this kind of price tag knocks out about 75% of the homebrewing community....

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Wow...1 in 4 of us would have interest in a $500 pc based fermonitor. Also just read a post regarding a $78 hydrometer...I think I better find a new job.

In all sincerity, best of luck with your product development, I guess I'm old school and habits die hard.

Wilser - you must not have read the update, they now expect the Fermonitor probes are going to be about $100. Or about $200 total if you plan to use their computer interface. I agree, sounds kinda wacko when you compare it to an $8 glass hydrometer but when you consider all the perks I think you might decide you "need" one! This thing continuously monitors and trends the fermentation on your PC (showing SG, %ABV, %BRIX). You can save and catalog all of your fermentations for future reference and comparison. I recently used info from mine to stop a batch from drying out more than I wanted - cold crashed while the gravity was where I wanted it. I think when it comes to SG measurements we are all old school, but maybe that is about to change?:rockin:

I am interesed in the size,power requirements, output signal, and range for incorporation in new brewing PLC control system and software.

Yorbag said:

Wilser - you must not have read the update, they now expect the Fermonitor probes are going to be about $100. Or about $200 total if you plan to use their computer interface. I agree, sounds kinda wacko when you compare it to an $8 glass hydrometer but when you consider all the perks I think you might decide you "need" one! This thing continuously monitors and trends the fermentation on your PC (showing SG, %ABV, %BRIX). You can save and catalog all of your fermentations for future reference and comparison. I recently used info from mine to stop a batch from drying out more than I wanted - cold crashed while the gravity was where I wanted it. I think when it comes to SG measurements we are all old school, but maybe that is about to change?:rockin:

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I agree. I would be interested in one myself.

I'd definitely be down for one...or 4 (the PC thing reads 4 or so I believe)

That would be kick arse for when I forget take a measurement before i keg them...and I do this ALL the time.

Wow. This is awesome. I would buy a sensor and PC interface right now if it was available. Hoping it's not vaporware and we actually see it this fall.

I'd love to take one of these to the LHBS(s) and try to help you sell them... if you don't already have a distribution deal though other wholesalers.

EDIT: Also, while I'm okay with .Net, I think you might want to consider a Java interface. Like Excel, not everyone wants to buy Windows... and despite it being prevalent, there are a lot of us Linux users out there... and Mac users. If I run a small dedicated machine just for data capture, I don't want to have to buy Windows for it

Yes. PLEASE provide an interface that can run natively on OS X.

diatonic said:

Wow. This is awesome. I would buy a sensor and PC interface right now if it was available. Hoping it's not vaporware and we actually see it this fall.

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I'd like to echo this sentiment... I seriously came here to write the exact same thing!(the vaporware part especially) haha. Anyway, is there any way we could get a picture of the device in action?...or better yet, video of the sensor being immersed into different solutions to demonstrate its ability to do the real time readings? I can't imagine it would give too many secrets away about it before you get it fully patented.
...just a thought...thanks!

Man, this thing sounds awesome! I cant wait to see this thing in action. +1 on the software side, I would like to be able to run this on a Mac. I wish you lots of luck with this.

sambogi76 said:

Man, this thing sounds awesome! I cant wait to see this thing in action. +1 on the software side, I would like to be able to run this on a Mac. I wish you lots of luck with this.

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Oh yeah, Mac too for sure.

I was wondering if you would be able to comment on the ability of integrating it into the brewing process for people with slightly advanced or automated systems? Would one be able to place on in a boil to determine the real time SG of their batch? (ie figure out when they've reached their desired preboil SG)

Thanks!

I have had a few others ask about being able to monitor MLT gravities or kettle gravity. This is certainly something we expect to tackle at some point and we have made significant progress. However, we found that we were spreading our resources too thin trying to solve all the problems of the world - so we made a decision to focus on bringing to market a product for fermentation conditions first. It is possible that the Fermonitor that goes on sale this fall might also be suitable for reliable operation in the MLT or kettle. I hope I have addressed your question, we will be putting much more information on the website in the coming weeks.

jmansfield said:

I have had a few others ask about being able to monitor MLT gravities or kettle gravity. This is certainly something we expect to tackle at some point and we have made significant progress. However, we found that we were spreading our resources too thin trying to solve all the problems of the world - so we made a decision to focus on bringing to market a product for fermentation conditions first. It is possible that the Fermonitor that goes on sale this fall might also be suitable for reliable operation in the MLT or kettle. I hope I have addressed your question, we will be putting much more information on the website in the coming weeks.

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Any chance of seeing a prototype in action? Pics? Video? I've read in another thread that it can show the SG immediately upon immersion. Seeing a video of it being dipped into various gravity wort or sugar solutions and the resulting readout would be awesome.

jmansfield said:

I have had a few others ask about being able to monitor MLT gravities or kettle gravity. This is certainly something we expect to tackle at some point and we have made significant progress. However, we found that we were spreading our resources too thin trying to solve all the problems of the world - so we made a decision to focus on bringing to market a product for fermentation conditions first. It is possible that the Fermonitor that goes on sale this fall might also be suitable for reliable operation in the MLT or kettle. I hope I have addressed your question, we will be putting much more information on the website in the coming weeks.

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Thanks very much Jon,
I look forward to the time when I can see your product and hopefully even get to use one. I'm sure there is much interest from the homebrewing level all the way up to the macro industry.

What you're doing is unique and thus far unseen, so here is a Prost! Can't wait to see more!

Ah yes, we definitely plan to put a little video on the web site. It is very cool if you are a nerd like me, you won't be disappointed... :rockin:

Are there any videos of this yet? I would like to learn more about this product.

Check out http://www.fermonitor.com/
No video, but there are pics and a seldom-updated "news" section. I consider this innovation the "Duke Nukem Forever"* of the home brewing world.

* - A video game that took over a decade of time to come to fruition that didn't end up to be vaporware

/might be worth it if it's reasonably priced!
//hint hint

TheAleMaster said:

Yes. PLEASE provide an interface that can run natively on OS X.

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I second this. I would buy one in a New York minute. I hate taking gravity measurements almost as much as I hate Windows. I even went so far as to buy a fancy refractometer from Misco (cost me 500 bucks) but it doesn't work worth a damn.

Irrenarzt said:

I second this. I would buy one in a New York minute. I hate taking gravity measurements almost as much as I hate Windows. I even went so far as to buy a fancy refractometer from Misco (cost me 500 bucks) but it doesn't work worth a damn.

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I wouldn't count on an OS X solution at the get-go. Judging by some of the discussion on the boards here and by the screenshot, it's coded entirely in Visual Basic and will rely on Excel or something like that to display and log the information from the device. Of course, there is Excel for Macs, but I have no clue about compatibility with things like this. I could be totally wrong about everything I've just written here as well... I'm just recalling from memory.

I have an XP SP3 Dell Mini 10 that I use for Beersmith and internet browsing (i.e. brewclalcs.com, mrmalty, etc.) while I'm brewing in the garage or at the local brewery so I'm OK with a Windows solution. It would be nice to use my macbook pro but not essential.

If this thing works and is reasonably accurate I'll buy it as the temperature and gravity logging would be extremely valuable to me.

If the developer still reads this thread for the love of god don't make me hook this thing to a computer. Have it serve a webpage or something, please, please, please. I would much rather pay an extra $100 for something I can plug into a bridge vs a USB device.

remilard said:

If this thing works and is reasonably accurate I'll buy it as the temperature and gravity logging would be extremely valuable to me.

If the developer still reads this thread for the love of god don't make me hook this thing to a computer. Have it serve a webpage or something, please, please, please. I would much rather pay an extra $100 for something I can plug into a bridge vs a USB device.

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I agree...given that most people do not have spare computer lying around to simply gather data, and that fermentation does not generally occur in home offices or bedrooms (YMMV), it would be incredibly useful to have a web interface like this device

Since the Fermonitor uses the LabJack hardware, I wonder if it could somehow be used with their CloudDot services. This does look like a remote service though, perhaps a bit more difficult than just a web interface on a local LAN. (I have no experience with CloudDot and just did a quick search)

Maybe the Fermonitor guys and the Embedded Control Concepts guys could get together and work on something.

Hmm, this kind of thing screams for java or a web interface or at least just spitting out a text file (ideally xml) on what is seen by any computer as a USB drive, then you have easy access to its data from any platform.

Platform specific programming truly sucks. I hope this gets off the ground

Nearly two years since the original post on this gizmo and it's still not on the market? What's the hold up? Seems like it died on the vine so to speak. Any update on what's happening?

Catt22 said:

Nearly two years since the original post on this gizmo and it's still not on the market? What's the hold up? Seems like it died on the vine so to speak. Any update on what's happening?

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From his website:

October 16, 2010 - We have been delayed by problems at one of our part suppliers. We expect to have more products in-stock soon!

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Hmm, this kind of thing screams for java or a web interface or at least just spitting out a text file (ideally xml) on what is seen by any computer as a USB drive, then you have easy access to its data from any platform.

Platform specific programming truly sucks. I hope this gets off the ground

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From his site I see you can buy just the probe and a labjack. Labjack supports several programming languages, and you'd be more than able to implement your "java" or "web interface". I personally enjoy the .Net framework myself and will likely grow my own UI around this once it's released.

dozer4412 said:

I personally enjoy the .Net framework myself and will likely grow my own UI around this if it's released.

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FTFY

I've always been very suspicious of this little thing. The lack of the creator's input here makes me all the more suspicious. Also, if there are working prototypes out there, wouldn't they want to put a video of the thing actually giving readings and stuff? Build some hype...get people excited about it, even if it is a long way off. All we have is a half-assed screen shot of the GUI and some odd-angled, low-res, partial photos of the device.

/skeptical to say the least
//I'd love to be proven wrong, very wrong

Hokie said:

FTFY

I've always been very suspicious of this little thing. The lack of the creator's input here makes me all the more suspicious. Also, if there are working prototypes out there, wouldn't they want to put a video of the thing actually giving readings and stuff? Build some hype...get people excited about it, even if it is a long way off. All we have is a half-assed screen shot of the GUI and some odd-angled, low-res, partial photos of the device.

/skeptical to say the least
//I'd love to be proven wrong, very wrong

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I share your skepticism, but to be honest, I have no interest in actually buying the device(s). I've been following this thread mostly to see if my suspicion was justified. Seems like it's a solution to a non-problem. Some of the early cheer leading also raised a red flag. I also hope I'm wrong so that those who do want to acquire the device can do so.

I bought one of the SG probes when it was first made available on the website and I can tell you it is not a hoax, mine works really well. But I have only made 2 batches with it so it is sort of early to be giving alot of praise. It is very well put together, stainless steel probe that connects to a transmitter. I love the Labjack that came with it, been tinkering with it more than anything. I like to think am pretty tech savvy and it took me a while to figure out how to use the probe and the software, not the most intuitive interface and I don't read instructions... eh hehe . From the website it sounds like they are having trouble with a supplier but should have more soon. Cheers!

bricklayer38 said:

I bought one of the SG probes when it was first made available on the website and I can tell you it is not a hoax, mine works really well. But I have only made 2 batches with it so it is sort of early to be giving alot of praise. It is very well put together, stainless steel probe that connects to a transmitter. I love the Labjack that came with it, been tinkering with it more than anything. I like to think am pretty tech savvy and it took me a while to figure out how to use the probe and the software, not the most intuitive interface and I don't read instructions... eh hehe . From the website it sounds like they are having trouble with a supplier but should have more soon. Cheers!

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Care to post pics, vids, or anything showing the thing in action? Even sticking it in a sugar solution vs. distilled water...I think that would be cool to see.

They sure have been slow getting them out. I still don't see anything available on their web site.