Electric vs Natural Gas Homebrew Setup Cost

Hey guys, I've been here a little while, mostly reading, but I think it's time for a post.

I am at a very important crossroads here. I am really debating whether my homebrew setup will be electric, natural gas, or simply propane. Living in IL, I would like to retain the possibility to brew inside, otherwise I'll miss a good 6 months of the year. That leads me to electric.

However, after doing a tiny bit of research, I see things like the Electric Brewery and think that there is no way I can afford to build an electric setup. I would like you guys to give me a real rough estimate of the cost to setup your electric brewing system (with a link to the build, or a pic, or something) so that I can finally make up my mind.

If electric is as much as I thought, then I'll just go another route. But I need the info first. Thanks in advance, guys.

Dane
The Brew Bros

The cost really depends on the equipment that you already have as this sets the possible design you could use. Also your method (AG or extract) would help sort it out.

One more thing. What power source do you have in your brew area? If you have a 240V it's a lot easier.

Please let us know.

Here is a link to my electric build thread. (It's also in my signature)

There is a rough parts list with a total cost, along with plenty if pictures showing what I did and how. There are quite a few knowledgeable people who posted in my thread, including P-J.

My build cost significantly less than something like Kal's "The Electric Brewery," so don't be too scared. Mine could also be done for a lot less if I used cheaper switches and didn't bother refinishing the control panel, ect... Walker has a full electric setup that I believe he said cost something around $600. He'll correct me if I'm wrong.

Depending on what you already have as far as equipment and utilities, a full electric build could be done for pretty cheap if you don't shoot for anything fancy.

TB

I will be brewing all grain exclusively. I have three sanke kegs that are being polished and fitted with a sight glass, thermometer and ball valve each, all weldless. I will be running two pumps as well.

For power, I talked to my landlord (who is really strangely into helping me build this brewery) and he is having two dedicated outlets (15A 120 & 30A 240) run up and placed exactly where I need them for my setup.

So, as far as all that is concerned, I'm pretty sure that short of nuclear power, I am setup for any and all systems...I just need to plan one.

Kal's Electric Brewery is the cream of the crop, 95% of us have nowhere near as much invested. The major difference between most lp or natgas setups and electric setups is the degree of automation.

For $200ish you should be able to build a system with 2 elements, one PID controlled and one manually controlled.

I think I have around $500 in a BCS-460 controlled box with 3 elements and 2 pump outputs.

Up front costs may seem high for an electric system, but if you build an apples to apples system a gas system will cost at least the same and still cost considerably more per batch to run.

Hey Tiber_Brew, do you have the plans you used for your single tier build? the ones that made "building a breeze"? That would really take the guesswork out when I have my stoner welder build it. He usually gets off track midway through and I end up with a really cool, half functional sculpture...

Also, would you be willing to build a counter flow chiller for sale purposes? If so, how much?

TheBrewBros said:

I will be brewing all grain exclusively. I have three sanke kegs that are being polished and fitted with a sight glass, thermometer and ball valve each, all weldless. I will be running two pumps as well.

For power, I talked to my landlord (who is really strangely into helping me build this brewery) and he is having two dedicated outlets (15A 120 & 30A 240) run up and placed exactly where I need them for my setup.

So, as far as all that is concerned, I'm pretty sure that short of nuclear power, I am setup for any and all systems...I just need to plan one.

Click to expand...

That is great news for you.
See if you can get him to do your 240V 30A run as a 4 wire run with a 4 prong outlet. Get a GFCI breaker installed in the mains panel as well. All of this will make your setup a lot safer and MUCH easier to wire and control.

For cost: Take a look at this Excel spread sheet that I made up:
Brew_Parts_Order_Form.xls
I filled in the items that should get you to where you want to be, including the project box from Auber Instruments.
It's just at $278 as is. You can use the TAB key to navigate to the quantity fields to change them.

Here is a diagram that you can use to get there as well.
(Click on the image to see a full scale diagram- printable on 11" x 17" paper)




I spent a little bit just now making this for you.

Hope it helps,
P-J

A CFC will work just fine with your system. Just a heads up though. You will need to have a HERMS coil in your HLT as you will be mashing in a keg setup. I suggest that you make that coil out of 1/2" OD copper tubing. (ACR copper). Once that is built, you could also use it as an immersion chiller to save some $'s.

That's freaking awesome, P-J! Thanks a ton for working that up for me! I know the electrical setup that you mention will be a breeze, like I said, he's willing to do whatever I want. He's actually having an electrician come out exclusively to wire up my brewing setup. I will simply tell him that's what I want him to do...The best part is, he will be wiring it up in exchange for a custom homebrew for his fishing club!

I spent the last 4 months building my kal clone. I put about 3000 in it. I did a few thinga different, here is my build. I really enjoyed the build. Had some come to jesus moments. I have done my third batch and I super impressed with the system. I will never go back to fire. Electric is very nice!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/reverse-polarity-brewery-kal-clone-237568/

TheBrewBros said:

That's freaking awesome, P-J! Thanks a ton for working that up for me! I know the electrical setup that you mention will be a breeze, like I said, he's willing to do whatever I want. He's actually having an electrician come out exclusively to wire up my brewing setup. I will simply tell him that's what I want him to do...The best part is, he will be wiring it up in exchange for a custom homebrew for his fishing club!

Click to expand...

You are very welcome. Please keep this thread going with your build. I think you are in for a very pleasant adventure and will never look back to "flame" brewing.

If I can help with added info or any changes you might need, PLEASE let me know.

P-J

TheBrewBros said:

Hey Tiber_Brew, do you have the plans you used for your single tier build? the ones that made "building a breeze"? That would really take the guesswork out when I have my stoner welder build it. He usually gets off track midway through and I end up with a really cool, half functional sculpture...

Also, would you be willing to build a counter flow chiller for sale purposes? If so, how much?

Click to expand...

Not to take away from a brew sculpture - they are really great. However, I want to give you something to think about.

Here is a rig that was setup by a close dear friend of mine. He used the furniture legs from office desks (surplus office equipment center) as the legs on the Sanke kegs. When he is all done brewing (and cleaning) he just turns them upside down and stacks them. The legs lock them together so the stack cannot fall over. It also only uses the floor space of a single keg. The cost? A huge amount less than a single tier welded frame.



HTH

TheBrewBros said:

Hey Tiber_Brew, do you have the plans you used for your single tier build? the ones that made "building a breeze"? That would really take the guesswork out when I have my stoner welder build it. He usually gets off track midway through and I end up with a really cool, half functional sculpture...

Click to expand...

I'm sure I still do have the plans for the welded stand. It's probably saved on my work computer. PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

You might want to review the plans with your welder, and make sure you're both on the same page before he begins.

Also, P-J's suggestion about the furniture legs that secure onto the kegs is a great idea. If space and cost are a factor, you might want to consider something like that. I have no regrets about my stand, but I designated space for it, and had the resources to buy the materials and weld it up.

Also, would you be willing to build a counter flow chiller for sale purposes? If so, how much?

Click to expand...

Hmmmm....I'm not sure I want to build these things for $$. I started a thread for my previous CF chiller build. You can take a look at what I did there and feel free to ask me for any help. It's a little different than the chiller I made for the single tier eHERMS brewery, but it's the same general idea.

TB

P-J said:

Here is a diagram that you can use to get there as well.
(Click on the image to see a full scale diagram- printable on 11" x 17" paper)




I spent a little bit just now making this for you.

Hope it helps,
P-J

Click to expand...

Your diagram shows the relay on the Auber (7 & 8) going directly to the SSR input. Does that controller put out voltage on 7 & 8 or is it just a relay? If it is just a relay you will need the appropriate power supply to match the voltage needed to trigger the SSR and run that across 7 & 8.

i'm at this weird point where I keep jumping back and forth between Kal's control panel and a much more modest one. I have been making lists of the absolutely necessary functions/features, and basically it ends up as Kal's every time. With kids in the house and a fairly decent responsibility to remain alive, I really want ALL of the safety features. At the same time, I really want the timer and temperature alarm systems to keep me in check and keep my brews as consistently efficient as possible. I know Kal didn't leave anything out, and it's the same price as say Brewmation's system with about a million more features. Besides that, the price is cheaper than I have calculated building it on my own.

I have my kegs, currently being converted to keggles, I have a lot of the little things that will save me money, too. I think I'm going to finish my keggles (polished, all the hookups and false bottom, spigots, ball valves, HERMS), and then build my stand and add my tubing and pumps and heating elements. Hopefully by then I will be able to widdle down Kal's idea, or be able to afford it, haha. I know not having to buy the brew pots, getting cheaper pumps, and not going TOTALLY crazy with everything will save me some coin.

To be REALLY honest, I have everything in my cart on Kal's site, right now. I am minutes away from just ordering it all. Having no real electrical background, I can see building it from scratch being a total disaster for me.

P-J said:

Not to take away from a brew sculpture - they are really great. However, I want to give you something to think about.

Here is a rig that was setup by a close dear friend of mine. He used the furniture legs from office desks (surplus office equipment center) as the legs on the Sanke kegs. When he is all done brewing (and cleaning) he just turns them upside down and stacks them. The legs lock them together so the stack cannot fall over. It also only uses the floor space of a single keg. The cost? A huge amount less than a single tier welded frame.

HTH

Click to expand...

My only concern with this setup is the brew day to brew day routine. I really want everything ready to go at the drop of a hat. Any extra work is just another deterrent for me. I have very limited time and a whole setup/breadown routine would get old for me. Also, things that have been worked out (ie - pump location) would not be standard in that setup, thus possibly adding another variable to my brewday. I think that's a great idea, but fortunately I have a few other welder buddies, and I have the space. I appreciate the idea, though, I never would have thought of that.

P-J said:

That is great news for you.
See if you can get him to do your 240V 30A run as a 4 wire run with a 4 prong outlet. Get a GFCI breaker installed in the mains panel as well. All of this will make your setup a lot safer and MUCH easier to wire and control.

For cost: Take a look at this Excel spread sheet that I made up:
Brew_Parts_Order_Form.xls
I filled in the items that should get you to where you want to be, including the project box from Auber Instruments.
It's just at $278 as is. You can use the TAB key to navigate to the quantity fields to change them.

Here is a diagram that you can use to get there as well.
(Click on the image to see a full scale diagram- printable on 11" x 17" paper)




I spent a little bit just now making this for you.

Hope it helps,
P-J

Click to expand...

Thanks for post the cost list, I am also wanting to build a system and have been adding up the cost between elec and gas. The only question I have it I noticed that your total is only including some of the items. Are the items that list as 0 not needed/extra?

TheBrewBros said:

Hey guys, I've been here a little while, mostly reading, but I think it's time for a post.

I am at a very important crossroads here. I am really debating whether my homebrew setup will be electric, natural gas, or simply propane. Living in IL, I would like to retain the possibility to brew inside, otherwise I'll miss a good 6 months of the year. That leads me to electric.

However, after doing a tiny bit of research, I see things like the Electric Brewery and think that there is no way I can afford to build an electric setup. I would like you guys to give me a real rough estimate of the cost to setup your electric brewing system (with a link to the build, or a pic, or something) so that I can finally make up my mind.

Click to expand...

My Countertop Brutus 20 is specifically designed for indoor space constraints (and 120V power though that doesn't appear to be an issue for you). Detailed HBT build thread here. Easily built for < $500.

Monster Mash said:

Your diagram shows the relay on the Auber (7 & 8) going directly to the SSR input. Does that controller put out voltage on 7 & 8 or is it just a relay? If it is just a relay you will need the appropriate power supply to match the voltage needed to trigger the SSR and run that across 7 & 8.

Click to expand...

The PID referenced is a SYL-2352. Terminal 7 & 8 are output terminals for direct SSR control. Take a look at the manual (page 1) for more info:
Auber Instrument Instruction Manual SYL-2352
Keep in mind the manual also covers a relay out unit (SYL-2342)

Hope this helps.

P-J said:

...
For cost: Take a look at this Excel spread sheet that I made up:
Brew_Parts_Order_Form.xls
I filled in the items that should get you to where you want to be, including the project box from Auber Instruments.
It's just at $278 as is. You can use the TAB key to navigate to the quantity fields to change them.
...

Click to expand...

Caboose said:

Thanks for post the cost list, I am also wanting to build a system and have been adding up the cost between elec and gas. The only question I have it I noticed that your total is only including some of the items. Are the items that list as 0 not needed/extra?

Click to expand...

The Excel sheet (first quote above) includes many different items for different configurations. You can save the sheet to your PC and then make changes to customize it for your planned system. The Qty column and the one before it X are open so that they can be changed. (Re: the X column - I place an X or a > in that column to indicate if an item was ordered or is pending order.) Just use the 'tab' and 'shift tab' keys to navigate. The entries that show in Blue are links to the suppliers and the products. Click on them to see the information.

The sheet - as it is marked - was customized for the diagram I posted for TheBrewBros. It does not contain everything that might be needed (most of it is). You can also unprotect the sheet so that you can add additional items as you see fit. (The sheet in not password protected.)

I hope it helps you.

Thanks to all of you for this, This is exactly the post I was looking for. subscribed!

Old thread, but something to keep in mind too is the cost of the propane or natural gas vs. electricity.

It varies by location but in most places in North America, the cost to brew with natural gas is 2-3 times higher than electricity, while propane is 5-10 times higher.

For me, it costs me about $1.60 in electricity to brew 10 gallons of beer.

Kal

kal said:

Old thread, but something to keep in mind too is the cost of the propane or natural gas vs. electricity.

It varies by location but in most places in North America, the cost to brew with natural gas is 2-3 times higher than electricity, while propane is 5-10 times higher.

For me, it costs me about $1.60 in electricity to brew 10 gallons of beer.

Kal

Click to expand...

Ah the joys of efficiency. I live in the Pacific Northwest so hydro power keeps things that much cheaper.

kal said:

Old thread, but something to keep in mind too is the cost of the propane or natural gas vs. electricity.

It varies by location but in most places in North America, the cost to brew with natural gas is 2-3 times higher than electricity, while propane is 5-10 times higher.

For me, it costs me about $1.60 in electricity to brew 10 gallons of beer.

Kal

Click to expand...

What's your cost per kwh? Iirc mines @ .$10/kwh.

$0.12/kWh on peak, $.06/kWh off peak.

The $1.60 cost is for off peak and includes all the extra delivery charges, taxes, fees too (about 1/2 of the cost).

Kal

Sheesh, that's nice. I cringe everytime I burn through propane. I need to accelerate my e brewery

<Rubbing salt in the wound>

That's making 11-12 gallons of wort too to fill 2 kegs.
If it was a standard 5 gallon batch it would be about 80 cents.

</Rubbing salt in the wound>



Kal

kal said:

$0.12/kWh on peak, $.06/kWh off peak.

The $1.60 cost is for off peak and includes all the extra delivery charges, taxes, fees too (about 1/2 of the cost).

Kal

Click to expand...

$0.085 for under 600kwh and $.103 for over 600kwh for me. We don't have peak rates. However if my wife and I quit our jobs we could get the $.000777 low income rate. If it weren't for the two refrigerators, freezer, kegorator, and home theater (which I know you know way more about than me) my energy cost would be pretty cheap. But ebrewing is still much cheaper than propane, especially since I fill my HLT with 105 water from my tankless.