finally going to all grain (hopefully)

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wormraper

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ok guys, I have a glass top stove that doesnt' like to boil over 4 gallons of liquid without the lid on so I've stayed away from upgrading to all grain BIAB batches till now. well now I have an extra ale pail that's not in use this time so I thought I'd try a SMaSH IPA only doing a 3 gallon batch.... thought a SMaSH IPA would be a great beginner all grain batch since I'm a tad nervous

here's what I thought I'd try and pull off

7.25 lbs of 2 row
3.5 ounces of Cascade or Centennial (depending on if my LHBS is out of stock or not on their cascade like they were last time)

BIAB method so fairly simple there. mash in at 152 degrees ish
.75 oz cascade at 60 minute mark
.50 oz cascade at 15 minute mark
1.25 oz cascade at flameout

then 1.5 oz cascade dry hop

got a crapload of S-04 sittting around that I harvested from my last batch so no real big expenditure there either...

total bill is about $14 including tax from the LHBS to try my first foray away from extract kits

I MIGHT dry hop with another 1/2 oz if you guys think it's apropriate
 
For an IPA, I think dry hopping is absolutely appropriate. You may want to consider using an ounce, instead of a 1/2 ounce.
 
For an IPA, I think dry hopping is absolutely appropriate. You may want to consider using an ounce, instead of a 1/2 ounce.

an ounce can easily be done. does the hopping schedule look fine (amounts, time period)??
 
Well if all else fails...
add_more_hops.gif
 
decided to up the grain bill just a tad to boost the abv to about 5.9 instead of 4.9%

7.25 lbs of 2 row
3.5 ounces of Cascade or Centennial (depending on if my LHBS is out of stock or not on their cascade like they were last time)

BIAB method so fairly simple there. mash in at 152 degrees ish
.75 oz cascade at 60 minute mark
.50 oz cascade at 15 minute mark
1.25 oz cascade at flameout

then 1.5 oz cascade dry hop

and this is for a THREE gallon batch (not a 5)

as long as no one sees anything wrong with this sucker I'll pick up the ingredients this friday

oh, and for leaving "trub" at the bottom I've seen some pics of IPA's in here where I swear a 3rd of the bucket is hop trub... is there a way to decrease that say by using whole leaf hops and letting them float etc???
 
Leaf hops will be worse for trub (they sink). Use a hop bag.
I use a tsp. of Irish moss at 15.
Look up whirlpooling. That works really well when combined with a clearing agent.

Recipe looks really good! It will be extremely hoppy.
 
Leaf hops will be worse for trub (they sink). Use a hop bag.
I use a tsp. of Irish moss at 15.
Look up whirlpooling. That works really well when combined with a clearing agent.

Recipe looks really good! It will be extremely hoppy.

ok, no leap hops. so I was thinking. I could use a hop bag (5 gallon paint strainer bag) to hold my boil hops and reduce trub transfer during the wort creation. and then get a little bag with marbles to sink the dry hopping hops and keep trub to minimum that way.
 
Just to briefly correct your math, so you purchase the right amount, your hop bill is 4 oz, not 3.5.

I think the total amount of hops is fine, but I'd like to see you boil an ounce, maybe even 1.25 oz for 60 minutes. Keep in mind you get very little bitterness with the 15 minute addition, and almost none at flameout. Those really are aroma additions, as is the dry hop.
 
Just to briefly correct your math, so you purchase the right amount, your hop bill is 4 oz, not 3.5.

I think the total amount of hops is fine, but I'd like to see you boil an ounce, maybe even 1.25 oz for 60 minutes. Keep in mind you get very little bitterness with the 15 minute addition, and almost none at flameout. Those really are aroma additions, as is the dry hop.

durr, I forgot I adjusted the dry hop amount without adjusting the 3.5 ounce "total" in my first post... so basically YES on 4 ounces

I can boost the bittering hops easily....

say....

1.25 60 min
.50 at 15 min
1 oz at flameout

1.25 oz dry hop

(unless of course you can think of a better "spread" so to speak)
 
No, I think that is much better. I wouldn't add any more for a 3 gallon batch.
 
No, I think that is much better. I wouldn't add any more for a 3 gallon batch.

kewl beans. quick "dummy" question. since I'm gonna try and use a hop bag for the "boil" hops, and I've never done late hop additions (usually do hefe's and saisons with full hop boils of only 1-2 ounces for 5 gallons) how long do I keep the strainer bag of hops in there before taking them out (I have a full oz of hops at flameout so I didn't want to take them out tooo early before the aroma was imparted to the wort)
 
The full time. In other words, don't take the bag out until after you have transferred your cool wort to the fermenting bucket.
 
hercher said:
For an IPA, I think dry hopping is absolutely appropriate. You may want to consider using an ounce, instead of a 1/2 ounce.

+1

Mitch Steele on the Beer Smith podcast says he likes to dry hop american IPA's at the 1pound per Barrel mark. Thats just over 2.5 oz for a 5 gallon batch or roughly 1/2 oz per gallon.
And after all... He wrote the book on IPA. :D
 
The full time. In other words, don't take the bag out until after you have transferred your cool wort to the fermenting bucket.

got it. I purchased the 2-row and cascade hops today from my LHBS ... now off to create a starter for my S-04
 
one more question. I have a 5 gallon stainless steel and a 7.5 gallon aluminum pot...

should I do a dunk sparge in the second pot or is it just as "effecient" to heat the strike water back up to 170 and mash out IN the same pot as my regular mash??? personally I don't mind doing the extra work of a dunk sparge in a second pit if it guarantees me a higher efficiency percentage.

also since I'm doing a 3 gallon final with 7.25 lb's of 2-row how much water will I need total??? I haven't done any all grains so I'm not sure how much the 7.25 lbs of grain will absorb
 
well, having an "interesting" first all grain night

1st I found out I was holding the thermometor in the wrong spot. on the water OUTSIDE the bat... it was holding at 154... at the temps INSIDE the bag of grain for my mash was about 160.... THEN I find out that there are two holes in the bottom of my paint straining bag.... nothing too big. just looks like I squeezed too hard sometime (I've used this bag for a year of steeping grains and squeezing them out so it was probably week... luckily the grains were compressed enough not to fall out.

THEN when I'm putting a colander on the top of the pot it AND the grain bag that I'm draining slips and falls into the wort splashing hot wort over the top 1/2 of my body and the floor. didn't loose TOOOOO much so I mashed out and dunk sparged in the other pot... eeeeeeeeffff. we'll see how the boil goes and what my final gravity is have 4.5 gallons of wort for this 3 gallon batch so I'm hoping I can boil off 1-1.5 gallons and get it down there.... I'm still pissed that I accidentally mashed that high :(... hope it's not ruined.... my extract batches have never had a hitch and this "easy" one turned out to be a nightmare....

now I guess it's time to buy a new paint strainer from sherwin williams
 
Let us know how it finally turns out.

will do.

is there anything wrong with boiling an extra 1/2 an hour to get the final volume down lower?? in about 38 minutes I'm down to about 4 gallons of liquid (trying to get at LEAST 3.5 gallons final, hopefully 3.25 if I can)
 
wormraper said:
will do.

is there anything wrong with boiling an extra 1/2 an hour to get the final volume down lower?? in about 38 minutes I'm down to about 4 gallons of liquid (trying to get at LEAST 3.5 gallons final, hopefully 3.25 if I can)

Won't help you now but; yes you can boil off extra wort but remember when doing that you increase your hop utilization so with more time comes higher IBU and less aroma for any hops in the kettle already. Your color will also be negligibly darker ( less so in all grain than for extract).

If you boil an extra 30 min then add 30 min to the hop additions in this recipe. you can assume little to no hop aroma for anything over 30-40 min in the boil ( which if you added them in already would be all of them) which may not be as bad as it sounds given the relatively low IBUs
 
Won't help you now but; yes you can boil off extra wort but remember when doing that you increase your hop utilization so with more time comes higher IBU and less aroma for any hops in the kettle already. Your color will also be negligibly darker ( less so in all grain than for extract).

If you boil an extra 30 min then add 30 min to the hop additions in this recipe. you can assume little to no hop aroma for anything over 30-40 min in the boil ( which if you added them in already would be all of them) which may not be as bad as it sounds given the relatively low IBUs

that's what I hoped I could do. I only put 1.25 oz of hops in the full boil and waited till the hour mark to add my 15 minute addition. I delayed them on purpose for that reason. my IBU's will probably be a bit higher with my bittering but it was only 39.8 ibus to begin with.... x fingers .... next time I'll try to mash out with less sparge water (was trying to do the 1.5 guarts per lb of grain that was recommended but that turned out to be too much....) maybe next time I'll try a no sparge biab using the full boil amount.
 
well, I wasn't as off as I expected ... I got 3.5 gallons of liquid in the fermentor INCLUDING the hop trub from the boil pot (I wanted all those nice tasty hop residues to be in the fermontor since they'll just settle out in 3 weeks or so). it would have been 3 gallons EXACTLY if I'd have left the trub behind. but close enough...

my efficiency was a bit low (63%) because of my high mash temp I believe, and the fact that I splashed wort from my mast pot all over the stovetop and myself, giving me a 1.043 OG... meaning only a 4.1% IPA instead of the 5.5 I was aiming for but ya can't win em all. wort was a nice sweet taste with a nice kick in the teeth hop profile. according to hopville's calc It's about 50 IBU's bittered due to the 80 minute boil

used a 1 liter of liquid starter I made 2 days ago with re-washed s-04 (1 liter of liquid in a 2 liter bottle) so for 3 gallons I should have MORE than enough yeast to get that IPA as low as it'll go with the amount of sugars in there.

I know it was a bit of an ooooops day with me messing up quite a few things ,but I was surprised it took me about 5 - 5.5 hours for the full brew day (usually 2.5 - 3 hours for an extract day due to being able to cut my cooling time in half or 1/3rd by using chilled top off water and not having to do an hour and a half mash time). still it was kinda fun and the cheapness of it is definitely a pull from extract. especially for simple brews like SMaSH IPA/APA's etc. I think next time I'm gonna do a no sparge BIAB or use a "sprinkle" sparge to top off to what I need. I think due to the size of the turkey fryer I have now I can get away with doing a 4 gallon BIAB next time...... I'm not sure if I'll be able to do all grain once summer hits since I live in arizona and don't have a worth chiller (have to use bottles of ice in the tub) and it was difficult enough putting the wort outside in a rope tub filled with water in 37 degree weather in the middle of the night vs 85-110 degree weather outside in the summer


I think I'll try a SMaSH APA or just duplicate this one again to try and see if I can do it better next time.
 
ok, wow, that's all I can say. my heater broke last night and I woke up with the house 57 degrees and my ale pale on tile floor. I panicked thinking I might have killed my yeast by it getting too low. I grabbed a sample with a beer thief and checked the temps... still sitting at 63 degrees... not too bad. I decided to check my gravity readings ... and with a 1.043 OG it was an expected attenuation of 73% and 1.012 FG.... I just came in at 1.006 final!!! (meaning 84% attenuation)

being that it attenuated that much , that fast should I dry hop NOW or wait a week or so before dry hopping. the krausen was GONE and the IPA was pretty darn clear (surprised the crap out of me actually).

the taste is pretty darn solid, a little "simple" so to speak due to it being just 2-row and cascade , but pretty darn tasty without being dryhopped even
 
Leave it be. Your into this, what- 3 days now? Maybe 4. It's very possible that your at FG but you need to let things calm down before dry hopping it or to stand the potential of having co2 scrub out the hop character
 
Leave it be. Your into this, what- 3 days now? Maybe 4. It's very possible that your at FG but you need to let things calm down before dry hopping it or to stand the potential of having co2 scrub out the hop character

ok, I was just wondering If I should dry hop because I've seen a lot of posts saying to dry hop JUST as the primary fermentation is winding down so the co2 bubbling can "mix" the hops in instead of letting it settle. I was just raising an eyebrow cuz this was the fastest ferment I've seen yet (attributing to one helluva starter)
 
welp, dry hopped after a week in primary. smells great, all Krausen has fallen and my FG was holding steading at 1.005.... NOW

I decided to brew up Yoopers Dogfish head 60 minute clone all grain style. a LOT smoother this time, no exploding wort, nothing seemed to go wrong. Even was able to cool the brew in about an hour.... my only problem still seems to be efficiency..... I was supposed to get a 1.061 OG reading, but I only got a 1.051 (giving me 62% efficiency according to to Hopville's beer calculus. ( a little bit better than I did last time. wondering why, I mashed at 148-150 for 90 minutes. squeezed the grain bags out like a leprechaun and his bag of gold.... mashed out at 160 degrees in the pot and cooled quick. I ended up with 5.5 gallons instead of 5 gallons due to the hot and cold break in the pot, but nothing wild.... kind of annoying to get that low of an effeciency... might have to compensate by adding another couple of lbs of 2 row next time.
 
I was supposed to get a 1.061 OG reading, but I only got a 1.051 (giving me 62% efficiency according to to Hopville's beer calculus. ( a little bit better than I did last time. wondering why, I mashed at 148-150 for 90 minutes. squeezed the grain bags out like a leprechaun and his bag of gold.... mashed out at 160 degrees in the pot and cooled quick.

How did the crush look? Mine looks a lot like corn meal with husks in it. With BIAB that works well but if I used a conventional mash tun I would have trouble draining because I have too much fine material and the husks are all shredded. It seems that the quality of the crush is what has the most effect on efficiency.
 
How did the crush look? Mine looks a lot like corn meal with husks in it. With BIAB that works well but if I used a conventional mash tun I would have trouble draining because I have too much fine material and the husks are all shredded. It seems that the quality of the crush is what has the most effect on efficiency.

I was just thinking that (oh and I forgot to adjust for temperature. my OG was actually 1.053 after temp adjusting which means my effeciency was actually 64%).... I have to get mine ground at the LHBS due to not having a mill just yet (didn't wanna jump in and get a mill for my first couple all grains..... I don't think it's as fine as what you're describing... even after double crushing at the LHBS.... it looks that fine in SOME areas, but the husks are pretty intact and the grain itself is more like grits than corn meal.
 
I bought a cheap Corona knock off mill that works well for BIAB and with a bit of care could work for a conventional mash tun too, especailly if you condition the malt before milling it so the husks are a bit tougher. The mill I bought was under $30 with shipping and will last me as long as I want to make beer. If you get into making more beer than you want to grind with that kind of mill you can probably sell it for near what it cost you.
 
I bought a cheap Corona knock off mill that works well for BIAB and with a bit of care could work for a conventional mash tun too, especailly if you condition the malt before milling it so the husks are a bit tougher. The mill I bought was under $30 with shipping and will last me as long as I want to make beer. If you get into making more beer than you want to grind with that kind of mill you can probably sell it for near what it cost you.

not a bad idea to get a corona mill. the one nice thing is that I'm actually saving up to get a really nice Grain mill to grind my own flour (like the wondermill), since I adore making my own bread.


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CPJKWC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I'm pretty sure now that I think about it that it's probably a crush issue, cuz I hit EVERYTHING on the nose, I watched my temps, I squeezed the bag, etc... only thing I can think of is my crush.... until I get that sucker it looks like 1.5-2 lbs of cheap 2 row will boost my effecincy for only $1.75-$2.40 more per 5 gallon batch.
 
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well, update... the SMaSH IPA I brewed first is in the bottles for 3 days and I taste tested one... nice STRONG grapefruit taste thanks to the cascade. this one ended up dropping down to 1.004 FG (I overpitched with a big starter forgetting it was a 3.5 gallon batch not a 5 gallon batch so it attenuated WELL). overall tastes great. nice and simple with a HUGE hop aroma (did a 1.5 oz dryhop for a 3.5 gallon batch). nice, cheap and tasty. now I'm excited to see how yoopers dogfish head 60 minute clone works out.
 
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