Chocolate malt SMASH??

I'm sure that I am not the only Dark Dark beer lover. Anyone ever try something like this? will it work? How did it turn out? What did you use?

Never tried it, but I don't think you want to use a specialty grain in a smash. There maybe some exceptions to that, but I am doubtful about chocolate malt. But hey try a small 1 or 2 gallon batch, what the hey.

I believe they make a chocolate 2 row, but I'm not sure if it would make a good smash.

If you're curious try a very small batch. I am very doubtful this will turn out drinkable, though.

ilv4xn said:

I'm sure that I am not the only Dark Dark beer lover. Anyone ever try something like this? will it work? How did it turn out? What did you use?

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It will not work but don't let me stop you from trying.

Sounds awful.

GrainWhisperer said:

Sounds awful.

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This, and I'm pretty sure chocolate malt won't self convert and thus will not ferment leaving a batch of dark nasty with yeast mixed in.

I like the way you are thinking but in this particular case I believe your thinking is incorrect. Next time you go to the homebrew store eat a few chocolate grains and tell me if you would like nothing but that in a beer. If you want to try a SMaSH I hear Vienna is a great way to go.

But then again you never know.... I did read someone on here who made an all Peat-malt SMaSH and liked it so I guess you never know....

FastAndy said:

This, and I'm pretty sure chocolate malt won't self convert and thus will not ferment leaving a batch of dark nasty with yeast mixed in.

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Good point! Didn't even think of that. How much base grain hypothetically would you need to get you through a batch super, super heavy on the chocolate? 25%? 50%? I really have no idea...

With chocolate malt being killed at such high temps for so long, I don't know that it ever adds much fermentable sugar in any recipe. That being said you could use base malt to get the SG you want then go to town with all the chocolate you'd like and it would still ferment the base. Again, I think this sounds awful but experimentation is a great part of this hobby. I would use something like EKG or Fuggles as a hop and a neutral yeast like US-05.

FastAndy said:

That being said you could use base malt to get the SG you want then go to town with all the chocolate you'd like and it would still ferment the base. Again, I think this sounds awful.

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I've actually done this with light DME instead of base malt, and I steeped a pound of chocolate malt in the batch. It was a one gallon batch, and it came out super nasty!

when wondering about a grain, it's useful to look it up in the wiki: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Chocolate_Malt

3 stats that are relevant to the discussion here:
Max in Batch 10.0%
Diastatic Power 0.0%
Recommend Mash No

the recommendation is that no more than 10% of your grains be chocolate. so if you want to go crazy, try doubling the recommended limit to 20% and see how you like that. but 100%, or 10 times the recommended max, is probably going to taste horrible.

chocolate has zero diastatic power. it can't even convert itself. however:

no mash is needed, because it's a crystal malt. its starches have already been converted to sugars. however, a large portion of these sugars will be unfermentable. you would be left with a very very sweet beer that would finish at a high FG. even at 20% chocolate i'd expect a sweet beer... yuck.

you could also add some carafa, black patent and roasted/black barley. but i'd also stay within recommended limits, and ensure that at least 70% of my grains were 2-row, marris otter, munich, or some other base malt.

going with 100% anything (other than base malts) is kinda silly. it's like saying "i like sweet cakes, so let's make a 100% sugar cake!!!111"

I used a pound of chocolate in a 28lb grain bill for a 10 gallon batch of stout.
You wouldn't want much more than that.

Thanks for all of the great why I can't/should not info. I guess I have always been one to try to reinvent the wheel. Being very new (second batch in ferment) an my first batch a stout. I figured it can't get any easier then one kind of grain and one kind of hop. Seeing the chart on Max and why helped me to under stand the process a little more. Darker grain means more roast and less fermentable sugar. I have lots of why to learn I have learned lots about how but don't understand the why's yet. Thank you

ilv4xn said:

I figured it can't get any easier then one kind of grain and one kind of hop.

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single malt & single hope (AKA SMaSH) beers are awesome indeed, however you need to use a base malt - not a crystal/specialty malt.

Beers are like salads. They have a base (lettuce, spinach, etc.) and usually a little bit of dressing or other toppings which most of the flavor comes from. You're talking about drinking straight balsamic vinaigrette.

Chocolate malt will not convert. You can do a SMASH with Brown Malt, that is the darkest that I can think of that will self convert.

I'd try 9 lbs two row and 3/4 lbs chocolate malt mash 45 min at 156. Use English hops to about 30 IBUs. And either use American Ale or an English yeast strain. Not a true SMaSH but hey, this is homebrewing.

Is Munich a malt that can be used for 100% of the grain bill?

Sippin37 said:

Is Munich a malt that can be used for 100% of the grain bill?

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Yes, it is a base malt.

Hey Ilv4xn- this is 100% not meant to burst your bubble but this topic has come up before, actually, though some have not been so prudent. I'm super glad you have chosen to listen to the wisdom of the HBT proletariat, and maybe adjusted your future plans. Tennesseean's analogy about salad is almost too perfect- well done there.

In learning from others, you will make better beer and be happier- who can be bummed about that?

Cheers, and much luck to your future brewing endeavors- chocolate malt is a many-splendored thing!

You'd be surprised how a single specialty grain with some base malt can sing in a recipe. I've done a really nice bitter with nothing but base+c120, base+special b, base+a skosh of special roast. Nice beers!

My feelings still intact I am the kind of person that likes to try stuff even if it's wrong and I want to try it even more is someone tells me it can't be done. there was enought very good reasons listed that I don't need to try it because I understand now that it can't be done

What about using 6 row, and piggybacking on the extra enzymes? If, in fact it, turns out that chocolate still has enough fermentable sugars to make this work.

I might like the idea of piggybacking off of another grain but after only two batches. I have no idea what that entails how to do it or what you are even trying to attempt LOL. I say let's go for it!
If it will work,

9 lbs base malt (2-row Pale, Maris Otter, Munich, Vienna, etc.)
1 lbs special malt

Yeast
Hops

Because I am sooo new to this. I don't understand how 9lbs of 2row And a pound of chocolate Is different then a regular batch?

ilv4xn said:

Because I am sooo new to this. I don't understand how 9lbs of 2row And a pound of chocolate Is different then a regular batch?

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It's different because you are only adding one specialty grain to your basic base malt. In other words your first SMaSH is a beer with only 1 base malt and 1 hop to learn their flavors, aromas, etc. once you get those components then you add 1 specialty grain to the mix so you can learn what it does. You always need a base malt to brew beer so if you stick with one variety then you can play with the many different specialties to learn about them, same thing with using single varieties of hops.

philrose said:

You'd be surprised how a single specialty grain with some base malt can sing in a recipe. I've done a really nice bitter with nothing but base+c120, base+special b, base+a skosh of special roast. Nice beers!

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I did a bitter with British caramel 75 and 2row (some vienna also, I think) and loved it. adding one specialty grain at a time is just a step up from SMASHING.

sweetcell said:

no mash is needed, because it's a crystal malt. its starches have already been converted to sugars. however, a large portion of these sugars will be unfermentable. you would be left with a very very sweet beer that would finish at a high FG. even at 20% chocolate i'd expect a sweet beer... yuck.

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Chocolate malt is not a crystal malt. However you are correct that it has no enzymes and therefore needs a base malt to convert.