Electric burners - Any builders out there?

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So it would go from the power in (receptacle male plug) to power in relay to the SSR?

Is the relay the same thing as a contactor?

contactors are relays. But they are heavy duty burly ones meant for switching on and off large loads.

You can put the contactor either before the SSR or after the SSR.

On my system, I put it before the SSR, but on the system I am helping someone else design, I am suggesting that he put it after the SSR. The reason for this is that he is building a system like yours (manual plug/unplug of the two kettles) but he eventually wants to put in a receptacle for the other kettle.

With the contactor after the SSR, then the future upgrade just becomes the dropping in of a second contactor and changing the on/off toggle switch for the contactor into an on/off/on selector switch to control which of the two contactors is enabled. The SSR feeds both contactors in that config and the selector controlls which element powered up.
 
I don't know what your picture is, but it isn't right.

for "SSR before Contactor" arrangement:
two wires in
one goes straight to contactor.
the other goes through the SSR before going to the contactor.
out of contactor, both wires go to element receptacle.

for "SSR after Contactor" arrangement:
two wires in
both go straight to contactor.
out of contactor, one wire gos to element receptacle.
the other goes through the SSR before going to the receptacle.
 
Thanks Walker... I have to admit I am making some headway, but it is a struggle. For once my ego is well in check ha!

Anyway, would you be willing to share your plan that you are doing for your friend? (i.e. wiring schematic).

I am having a difficult time dumbing my stuff down from the electric brewery site. They had a relay in, but it sounds like I need to go with a contactor instead.

Basically I am trying ot figure out how the heck to wire my stuff up, and what I need to pick up.
 
I don't have it drawn up, but was planning to do it tonight. I can post a copy of his schematic here for you if you want.

Like I said, contactor = relay. Same thing when it comes right down to it.

Oh, and as FYI: There is another option for power switching that could save a few bucks, and that is to use a big burly toggle switch instead of the contactor and smaller switch. You could directly switch the 240V with that big toggle.

I personally like the use of the contactors better. There's just something that feels better about flipping a 0.5A/120V switch on and off than flipping a 23A/240V switch on and off. :D
 
If you wouldn't mind posting it up that would be great. I am working on a visio drawing with my hardware in there (trying to be sure I have all my stuff before I start), but I really am falling short on it. I know this will be worth it in the end. But man I just want this thing installed so I can brew with it!

Wisely I decided, no holes in pots until the control panel is build ha!
 
Wisely I decided, no holes in pots until the control panel is build ha!

I did it the other way around, but it was because I redid my stand so I couldn't brew with propane anyways. So I did all the holes and had all the kettles and HERMS stuff put together while I was still accumulating control panel pieces. By the time I had everything I needed for the panel, I was done with the kettles/stand/fittings so that when I finish the panel it's ready to brew.
 
Would this work? Toggle switch wise?

For the price it is looking good compared to the contactor...


http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/NKK-Toggle-Switch-2TPC5?Pid=search

That'll work for an on/off switch. There won't be much current since it's only going through the coil of the relay. In any case, I wouldn't buy it from granger, you can get the same thing off e-bay for about $2. I bought most of my pieces from pioneerbreaker. In fact, the contactor they have is cheaper than this grainger switch (I paid $8 for my contactor).
 
I just participated in two grain bulk buys.... I need to use the crap out of the grain so I can enjoy the summer sipping, not brewing every day ha.
 
That'll work for an on/off switch. There won't be much current since it's only going through the coil of the relay. In any case, I wouldn't buy it from granger, you can get the same thing off e-bay for about $2. I bought most of my pieces from pioneerbreaker. In fact, the contactor they have is cheaper than this grainger switch (I paid $8 for my contactor).

Do the contactors have a certain spec they need to meet. For some reason I thought contactors were expensive (the relay on electric brewery was like $40+).
 
Awesome! and Thanks The tough part for me is not being familiar enough with the hardware (makes it harder for me to get the good deals on stuff!).
 
it needs to be heavy duty double-pole 30A with a 120V coil... he may have linked to an expensive one on his site, but that doesn't mean that's the one he bought,

Yup. 120V coil, or 240V coil will work, since you have 240V available. I'd go for the 120V one.

The one that Bruin linked too is perfect.
 
I think I will go the contactor route

Walker - Looking forward to your draw up when you get to it. I am green lighting this build. Picked up all my house power upgrade stuff and will be installing that soon.

I think I am going to grab the PID project box from Auberins. Just need to see if it will get too crowded in there (especially when I upgrade down the road to a herms).
 
The only thing you need to do electrically to get to a herms is add an outlet and switch for a pump. That won't take up any space at all.

The guy I am helping is going to use that auber box, too. Should be plenty big.
 
Very cool - so it looks like we are on the same track.

If you don't mind helping - I might ask you to pass on your partlist so I can try to get a good deal on some of the outlets and other things. I have picked up some of the stuff I need, but it would probably save me a ton of coin living off your electrical savvy.
 
This doesn't fit your EXACT situation, but here's an example.

This assumes you have a 4-wire 30A input (that is GFCI protected) and have a 5500W element.

nema14-30_to_nema10-30.jpg
 
oh.... the little yellow boxes are fuses.

1A fast acting fuse to protect the PID and Contactor and a 2A slow-blow to protect the pump.
 
Awesome walker and thanks! This looks very similar to what I had in mind. I might ask your opinion on the final drawing I do if you don't mind.
 
Walker,

Even though I don't have a pump yet I know I will eventually get one so I plan on running with somehting similar to your second example.

I was thinking that I would direct wire in the plug to the box (4 prong), and run the two hots, ground and neutrals into a terminal bus or two. From there I was planning to mkae jumpers on the bus terminals to split the lines as needed, and then run the lines out from there. Is this the right way to do it? Should I keep a separate bus for for each "neutral" "hot" "hot" "ground" ?

Terminal Bus http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0027114SC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20)



Fuses, they would need to be 250V rated so something like these?

2amp slow blow: http://www.pioneerbreaker.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=FH-INLINE-SB-2AMP

1amp fast blow: http://www.pioneerbreaker.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=FH-INLINE-FA-1AMP

(now I just need to find them in a qty of 1 instead of 10)


If you get a chacne - would you please list a place where I could buy those switches? I think they have to b rated for 30A right? There are a slwe of switches out there and I can't seem to find what I am looking for.

Thanks!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Walker,

Even though I don't have a pump yet I know I will eventually get one so I plan on running with somehting similar to your second example.

I was thinking that I would direct wire in the plug to the box (4 prong), and run the two hots, ground and neutrals into a terminal bus or two. From there I was planning to mkae jumpers on the bus terminals to split the lines as needed, and then run the lines out from there. Is this the right way to do it? Should I keep a separate bus for for each "neutral" "hot" "hot" "ground" ?

Terminal Bus http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-89-408-0-437-8circuit-Terminal/dp/B0027114SC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300716870&sr=8-1)
I wouldn't buy those unless you can get confirmation on the voltage and current rating. I don't see it listed anywhere. The strip needs to be able to handle everything that could possibly come in from the breakers feeding the panel.





Fuses, they would need to be 250V rated so something like these?

2amp slow blow: http://www.pioneerbreaker.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=FH%2DINLINE%2DSB%2D2AMP

1amp fast blow: http://www.pioneerbreaker.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=FH%2DINLINE%2DFA%2D1AMP

(now I just need to find them in a qty of 1 instead of 10)

You don't need fuses rated for 250V. 120V is fine, because all of the electronics you are protecting are connected to one 120V hot line and the neutral. BUt, I do think the fuses I have are rated for up to 240V. That's just what was available.

I got my fuse holders and fuses at Radio Shack. $3 for a holder and $3 for a pack of 3 fuses. So, I spent a total of $12 and have a couple of replacements. You might be able to find them cheaper than that. I just didn't bother price shopping when I added them. I just wanted the things in there and done.
 
Oh... and instead of those screw terminal strips, you might want to look at modular DIN rail mounted terminals. You mount a little track of metal in the box and then slide on as many modules as you need. It was cheaper to do it this way and is easily exapandable.

Here are the actual modules I used, rated for like 750V and 50A:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=CTS6Uvirtualkey56110000virtualkey845-CTS6U

Partition plates to separate the different poles:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=PP6/10Uvirtualkey56110000virtualkey845-PP6/10U

An end-plate (needed only on one end of the assembly to cover the exposed metal):
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=EP6/10Uvirtualkey56110000virtualkey845-EP6/10U

Clamps (end stop) to keep thing from sliding around on the rail :
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=CA802virtualkey56110000virtualkey845-CA802

And jumpers that screw in from the top so that multiple modules can be bridged together (I bought one of these long ones and cut it into multiple pieces based on what I needed):
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=CA723/10virtualkey56110000virtualkey845-CA723/10


And here's the railing I bought to mount it all to. WAY more than I needed (30" length, I needed about 6"), but the shortest piece they sold:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Phoenix-Contact/1207640/?qs=3hBxT%2fSYrV9IhG3ItEmxSw%3d%3d
 
So basically you put in the rail with screws, then add those terminal blocks in (however many are needed). You connect the terminal blocks with those little metal jumpers. I think the link you posted for the partitions isn't the right one (looks like a terminal block). Those partitions are needed when you change your type of wire that you are bridging? i.e. use a partition plate between the neutral and one of the hots in the bridging setup?

Those blocks are really cool by the way.
 
So basically you put in the rail with screws, then add those terminal blocks in (however many are needed). You connect the terminal blocks with those little metal jumpers. I think the link you posted for the partitions isn't the right one (looks like a terminal block). Those partitions are needed when you change your type of wire that you are bridging? i.e. use a partition plate between the neutral and one of the hots in the bridging setup?

Those blocks are really cool by the way.

I fixed the links. Sorry.

You have the right idea. On the rail, stacked up. Color coding of text used to show you an example of building with hot, hot, neutral, ground.

[end stop]
[module]
(... add as many as needed, jumper together...)
[module]
[partition]
[module]
(... add as many as needed, jumper together...)
[module]

[partition]
[module]
(... add as many as needed, jumper together...)
[module]

[partition]
[module]
(... add as many as needed, jumper together...)
[module]

[end plate]
[end stop]



 
Oh... and I think some other folks found things like this that were actually color coded. Different colored plastic used. Mine are all grey, but the wires coming in and out are properly colored.
 
awesome - from your above (didn't see that until after I posted) - it looks like I have the right idea.
 
yes, but you have a more modules than you really need. each module can have a wire connected to both sides of it.

So, with two of the modules jumpered together, you can connect 4 wires together at that point.
 
I gotcha. So the power feed in, then 3 terminals to pull off (using the remaining 3 spots) - see pic.

I think I am going to go with this switch. I assume 125V is ok? It will only get a feed of 120.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMvudeGI7i40XNZb1JQ3EZ0V51GgJXHqhCg=


Assumptions:
1. A would be from the wall line into the box
2. the box represents two terminals jumpered together

So it looks like I would need 10 terminals. But I will grab a few extra for potential future upgrades

A.JPG
 
yes. 125 is greater than 120. :D

Like I said, insecure much about electrical?... yup

haha.

Just about to place a mouser order - thanks a lot for the help walker!!

Almost all my stuff for the box is in, in the mail, or on order. Wouldn't ahve been able to gather it all without your help!

And yes, that would be my neutral terminal
 
Like I said, insecure much about electrical?... yup

haha.

Just about to place a mouser order - thanks a lot for the help walker!!

Almost all my stuff for the box is in, in the mail, or on order. Wouldn't ahve been able to gather it all without your help!

And yes, that would be my neutral terminal

If it's not too late... make sure you order some extra terminal modules. They are cheap, but if you have to go back in a month and order 2 more and play shipping on them, it would suck.
 
Ha - my thoughts exactly. I ordered some extra partitions, terminal modules, jumpers and even switches. Just in case I get a bad one, or in case I count wrong.

I am hoping to dry fit everything in the auberins box this weekend and plan out my layout for wiring (make it pretty).

I think I am going to run everything on 12g wire in the enclosure (except for the element which will be on 10g). Figured it will be easier to buy 4 wire color types in 12g than some on 12 and some in 14).

Now the trick is to dodge my wife and get all these packages in the house - to minimize the appearance of cost! :mug:
 
Walker wanted to ask you. I am going to either run a long extension line (10/3 rubber coated all weather) from pots to auberins box, or (10/4) from the 240 outlet on the garage wall to the auberins box.

Do you find with your set up you prefer to have your PID closer to the brew stuff? Or do youhave it a bit away and on the wall?

Part of me is thinking I want the box on the wall, away from harm (boiling work, HLT spills, etc.). Another part says it might be cheaper to run the longer 10/4 line so the cords to the HLT and BK are shorter.

Any usability thoughts from your own system?
 
I have a 10/4 running to my control panel, and 8 ft of 10/3 SOOW to each kettle from there. My control panel box sits on a fold out table well out of harms way. Close enough to flip a switch to turn on the pump, but far enough away that it doesn't get splashed. Works pretty well..

BTW, the 16 feet of 10/3 was about $25 total from Lowes at I think $1.65 a foot.
 
I was actually surprised at how cool some of the bulk wire was at HD. Thanks for the tips!
 
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