Making a All Grain Based Starter

Good Morning,



Has anyone treid to make a starter from grain? I have a small steel pot with a steel handle. I was thinking of mashing in the pot and heating my oven to 150 degrees. After doughing in I was going to put the pot in the oven and let it sit for the duration of the mash. Then sparge it into a larger pot and boil down to a gallon.



Thoughts, suggestions?

-Albert





BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Starter Batch
Brewer: Sumo
Asst Brewer:
Style: Starter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 0.50 gal
Boil Size: 0.79 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 0.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 15 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 100.00 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 1.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 1.25 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F

You can certainly do it, but it isn't exactly as convenient as using DME. You can make a larger batch, chill and collect in a few 1 liter PET bottles and stuff it into the back of the fridge. Whenever you want to get a starter going, dump one into a pot, boil 10 minutes to sanitize, chill, pitch yeast.

If I were going to do an all grain batch for a starter, that's what I would do.

+1 Bobby... that is what I have done in the past. Saves on buying DME... Otherwise I dont see the point in doing a msh for a starter, since that wort wont really be going into your brew anyway.

Sumo said:

Recipe Specifications
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Total Grain Weight: 1.00 lb

45 min Mash In Add 1.25 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F

Click to expand...

If you decide to go through with it, you should either make the mash thinner, or water it down with boiled and cooled water to get the OG down near 1.040. Higher gravity starters stress the yeast. The benefit of that is that you will end up with more starter to save for another time.

I did a small (2 gallon total volume) mash just the other day for this same reason. I needed to make a stater for this weekends brew, plus I bottled and froze about 4 more quarts for later. I have hundreds of pounds of grains sitting around and a bit of free time, so I did not see the use in buying DME.

When you mash in that pot, put the lid on, you will be surprised how well it will hold temp.

You can also pull some wort off a batch while your putting it in the fermenters. If it's SG is too high, dilute with boiled water. You get even more that way.

Thats sounds like a good idea. I have a bunch of PET bottles kicking around from my Mr Beer kits. I have over 200 lbs of grain on hand. I bought three 55 lbs of 2 row and two 55lbs of marris otter. With all that grain on hand I didnt feel like springing for DME. How long do you think the stuff will keep in the bottles in the fridge?

After what I just read maybe I will freeze it.

Sumo said:

How long do you think the stuff will keep in the bottles in the fridge?
After what I just read maybe I will freeze it.

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Here is my take, please correct me if wrong. If you can pressure can the wort, it is sterile and could be stored at room temp. indefinitely. If you cannot do that, boiling will kill all the beer spoilage bugs. One bug that you can't kill by simply boiling is botulism. And botulism can live in the sweet wort in the fridge, eat the sugar, and secrete toxin. This toxin cannot be removed by re-boiling either. In normal beer the botulism is quickly suppressed as the yeast drop the pH in the beer, but this is not happening in the starter wort.

If you freeze it, this is not an issue.

This is essentially the deal with canned tomatoes vs. green beans. Botulism thrives in green beans, and if not pressure canned correctly, can make people sick. With tomatoes, it is not so much an issue because the pH is so low.

But one thing I am not sure of is the time course, so someone else will have to chime in on that.

I have also read that if you add some hops to the starter the oils in them will help prevent botulism.

Personally I am not sure that I would risk it without being able to pressure cook the wort.

I ran a bit larger mash for a brewday and pulled some off to a seperate conatiner. Put that in bomber bottles and froze them. When I need to do starter now, I thaw the bottle, add water to desired amount and boil for 15 - 20 min. Cool, put in my flask and the yeast get real happy.

IMO, its just easier to use DME for starters. That is unless you have some extra runoff from a previous batch.

In the "Yeast Starters" episode of Brew Strong, Jamil talks about how he makes up a big batch of wort (using DME) for starters, then cans it all. I'm pretty sure its just the normal canning method. If you boil the wort, then can it I don't see any problems.

There was a show on Basic Brewing Radio that mentioned all grain starters... I believe Chris Colby from BYO was the guest.

Yep. I heat 1.5 quarts of water to 166*F and drop in a pound of crushed grain in a paint strainer bag. I then put on the lid and stick it in my 150*F oven for 60 minutes. Teabag, rinse the grains using a strainer over the pot as you top off to one gallon, and you are good to go. Depending on the efficiency you will be between 1.025 and 1.030 pre-boil which gives a wort around 1.040 after boiling.

Ok, not trying to talk anyone out of it. Just being the Devil's Advocate.

Are there any specific advantages to an all grain starter besides just not having to buy DME? I thought the point of a starter was to make healthy yeast, not make good beer. Unless you are churning out 2 batches a week, an all grain starter just seems like a lot more work for a small amount of savings.

Edcculus said:

That is unless you have some extra runoff from a previous batch.

Click to expand...

I thought about doing something like this after my last batch. I was thinking about throwing extra malt in my MLT after I was done sparging for my batch, adding some water to make the temperature in the conversion range, and lautering off the wort.

... Then I realized I only have one primary so it was a no go.

Edcculus said:

Ok, not trying to talk anyone out of it. Just being the Devil's Advocate.

Are there any specific advantages to an all grain starter besides just not having to buy DME? I thought the point of a starter was to make healthy yeast, not make good beer. Unless you are churning out 2 batches a week, an all grain starter just seems like a lot more work for a small amount of savings.

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I definitely agree, and I think most people would. Just use extract, there's no reason to make it more complicated.

I think this idea has serious merit if you were to pressure can your wort in multiple starter amounts. This is what I would do:

Mash with a BIAB technique, set strike water, drop in grains, go watch the game.

Come back when it is convenient, rinse off the grains, take a gravity reading.

Dilute to 1.040 using a brewing software calculator, bring to boil.

Boil for 15 minutes just to kill anything.

Pressure can in 1L jars.

Save in cellar for anytime you need a starter.

You really wouldn't have to calculate anything or be careful about times temps or anything else. That isn't your beer it just needs to be fermentable.

I think this could be a legitimate cost savings.

It's not too bad if you can just collect some extra runnings from a brewday and use those. That's what I'm doing currently.

yep - I do that as well, just pull some wort off the batch in the 2nd half of the sparge.

aeonderdonk said:

It's not too bad if you can just collect some extra runnings from a brewday and use those. That's what I'm doing currently.

Click to expand...

bingo. just steal a little bit of your runnings, start the starter, and brew again the next week.

Really when you think about it...

If you are already AG brewing, there is no point in buying DME to make a starter. You are creating copious amounts of wort, you are practically swimming in it... so why buy it elsewhere?

If my pre-boil SG is in the right range, I tap some of that for starters. If not, I will use my post boil wort and tap that for starters.

To each thier own, but if you make wort... I dont see the point in buying it elsewhere for starters.