Man, I love Apfelwein

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So, I have read about 100 pages here and do have a few questions. I must appologize if these were already answered as I did not find them in the pages I read.

1. Is it ok to leave in my primary (plastic bucket) fermenter for 6 months? Will there be oxidation if that happens?

2. Has anyone added cinnamon sticks or nutmeg to this? If so when did they do it? And how much did you add? How did it turn out?

I have everything ready to assemble tonight. I am excited about doing this one!
 
The bucket shouldn't cause any noticeable issues. I have not added nutmeg to apfelwein but I did make a batch in October that I added two sticks of ceylon cinnamon two cloves and two vanilla beans to the primary, in secondary I added one more stick of cinnamon and one more clove. This batch was bottled last week and was amazing from the siphon.
 
I was too afraid of losing the aromatics so I didn't. During active fermentation and after a decent amount of alcohol has been formed you should be safe.
 
cool, so you are saying to wait a week to put these in the primary to let the alcohol clear these off. I am going to make a two gallon batch by the book and then make a 5 gallon batch with the cinnamon and nutmeg. I may switch it by the time i get home from work, who knows... I wish brewing was my work! Maybe one day!

Thinking of brewing for work... Has the creator gotten any monetary returns (like recipe purchased by big name brewery) or anything? From the sounds of this, he should! I am sure I will have more opinions in 6 months when my batches are done.
 
OK all I have a few questions. I am going to start on my third batch of apfelwein. I am going to use 2lbs of brown sugar this time instead of corn sugar. I just do the same thing and dissolve it in half the bottle of juice right? Also my second batch will be done soon and I just got back from the hbs and i got yeast nutrient,potassium metabisulphate, and potassium sorbate. for the nutrient can i just add that to the applejuice and sugar and dissolve it and pour it right into the carboy? And then for the other two once fermentation is done do i have to rack the apfelwein into a new carboy and then pitch the stuff or can i put it in the original carboy that has the yeast cake at the bottom? And also do i just measure our the stuff and pour it in or do i have to pour it in and then mix it up? I plan on taking apple juice concentrate to this 5 gallons and see if I like that better. How long do I have to wait after i put in the sorbate and sulphite before i can add in the concentrate? Thanks and sorry for so many questions.
 
1. Is it ok to leave in my primary (plastic bucket) fermenter for 6 months? Will there be oxidation if that happens?

Don't leave your wine in the bucket for six months!

You'll want to put it in a narrow necked carboy or demijohn. This minimizes the air surface contact and slows the oxidizing process.
 
mastamind said:
OK all I have a few questions. I am going to start on my third batch of apfelwein. I am going to use 2lbs of brown sugar this time instead of corn sugar. I just do the same thing and dissolve it in half the bottle of juice right? Also my second batch will be done soon and I just got back from the hbs and i got yeast nutrient,potassium metabisulphate, and potassium sorbate. for the nutrient can i just add that to the applejuice and sugar and dissolve it and pour it right into the carboy? And then for the other two once fermentation is done do i have to rack the apfelwein into a new carboy and then pitch the stuff or can i put it in the original carboy that has the yeast cake at the bottom? And also do i just measure our the stuff and pour it in or do i have to pour it in and then mix it up? I plan on taking apple juice concentrate to this 5 gallons and see if I like that better. How long do I have to wait after i put in the sorbate and sulphite before i can add in the concentrate? Thanks and sorry for so many questions.

Im interested in the answers to alot of the questions you have.
But next time (or edit it) id do that many questions in bullet form. Not paragraph. Just saying.

Good luck with your next batch
 
Im interested in the answers to alot of the questions you have.
But next time (or edit it) id do that many questions in bullet form. Not paragraph. Just saying.

Good luck with your next batch

Davis is right. You'll find more people willing to answer questions if you break you questions down into bite-sized chunks that are easier to read. I'll do it this time.


OK all I have a few questions. I am going to start on my third batch of apfelwein. I am going to use 2lbs of brown sugar this time instead of corn sugar. I just do the same thing and dissolve it in half the bottle of juice right?


You are going to find the brown sugar a lot more difficult to dissolve. I would start by trying to see how well a half pound dissolves in a half gallon of juice. You might have to shake the living hell out that bottle to get it all dissolved. Light, powerdery dextrose dissolves so easily. You’re going to have a whole lot of shakin’ goin’ on. There is also the option of trying to dissolve the brown sugar in juice heated on the stove. The trade off with doing that is a haze to your finished product. If you’re okay with the haze, then you might want to take the easy way out. Don’t boil the juice. BTW, how long were you planning on letting this batch sit?

Also my second batch will be done soon and I just got back from the hbs and i got yeast nutrient,potassium metabisulphate, and potassium sorbate. for the nutrient can i just add that to the applejuice and sugar and dissolve it and pour it right into the carboy?


Absolutely right. Some people notice a significant difference in the level of Rhino Farts when using yeast nutrients. I’m not sure about that effect when using brown sugar instead of dextrose.

And then for the other two once fermentation is done do i have to rack the apfelwein into a new carboy and then pitch the stuff or can i put it in the original carboy that has the yeast cake at the bottom?


You might hear differently from others, but personally, I’d measure it out, dissolve it in a little juice, and pour it into a secondary carboy and rack what you have made on top of it. The natural swirl from racking will stir it and mix it for you. Wait 72 hours for the k-meta to work and then add your concentrate. Save that yeast cake and pour another batch right on top!

And also do i just measure our the stuff and pour it in or do i have to pour it in and then mix it up?

See above answer.

I plan on taking apple juice concentrate to this 5 gallons and see if I like that better. How long do I have to wait after i put in the sorbate and sulphite before i can add in the concentrate?

See above answer. But seriously, your finished product shouldn’t need k-meta or k-sorbate or concentrate. Just let it sit in your carboys as long as you can stand (it sounds like you’ve got yourself a pipeline going) and bottle it when you’re ready. If you’re looking for a little sweetner and apple taste, pour a little applejuice in with a glass of apflewein. you can change the amount of juice added with each glass to suit your taste (you might find out that you like it without juice)(some people like it with Sprite or 7-up), and the process will be much easier with significantly decreasing your workload and further chances of contaminating your finished product.

Good luck. And let us know how using brown sugar works for you.
Cheers,
Michael
 
Yall see this?

party-fails-how-wallet-friendly1.jpg
 
I searched this thread for 'filtered vs unfiltered' and saw issues with clarity mentioned(unfiltered being cloudy when complete)

Are they any other differences?

Cloudy unfiltered organic costs me 7.99 per glass gallon jug vs buy 1 get 1 free half gallons of filtered for 1.98/gallon.

I did my first batch with 7.99 stuff and bottled after about 3 weeks. My finishing gravity was 998 or so with Montrachet yeast.

It tasted very much like apples, and the small sample glass I drank made my face warm up.

I know some people say they don't have apple taste left once it's done. I had a very apple-e, somewhat tart flavor.

If the juice is filtered, would I expect less apple taste since the cloudyness is basically suspended apple particles?

I have 2 gallons of fancy stuff and 2 gallons of clear stuff that I was going to mix together for a 4 gallon batch, and now I'm thinking of scrapping that for another cloudy batch, and then maybe a little 2 gallon batch of the clear stuff to note the differences.
 
Bottled my first batch today, it's gonna be tough to let this age as the test sample was pretty tasty. Pitched a batch of hard lemonade onto the 1118 cake.
 
Hey does anyone have the yeast information for Red Star Montrachet. I'm trying to add it into BTP for a batch of Ed Wort's Apfelwein and even after searching for a while I can't seem to find the info.
 
what is BTP?...sorry if its a dumb question, still trying to learn allot from the site.

thanks,
 
I searched this thread for 'filtered vs unfiltered' and saw issues with clarity mentioned(unfiltered being cloudy when complete) Are they any other differences?
. . .
If the juice is filtered, would I expect less apple taste since the cloudyness is basically suspended apple particles?

I suppose that's accurate, but the real question is what the "suspended apple particles" are actually composed of. If they are truly particles of apple fibers, that would sediment out as the juice sits in the original packaging. It is proteins and pectins that generally stay in solution (as well as yeasts/bacteria, but you should be free of those until adding intentionally).

A generous dose of pectic enzyme (available at your LHBS) will help the pectins break down and settle out. Yeasts will flocculate out of solution on their own once they eat up the digestibles if given enough time (from your dry FG, I'm thinking you don't have a suspended yeast issue here).

Proteins are much more difficult to deal with and are generally dealt with in one of three ways: filtering (not really worth the bother for apfelwine - and could aversely affect aging), cold-crashing (always worth a try before bottling if you have the fridge space or a cold river/pond), and fining. If you choose to fine your apfelwine, some of the beer finings could work well, although I'd recommend the wine-focused finings, such as ClarityFerm that don't require any boiling to work properly.

Finally, if you still have any issues, adding yeast nutrients (compare to mead recipes for amounts/types to add) can significantly help the yeast to chew through anything extra that might be in solution (helps with fermentation odor too).

It tasted very much like apples, and the small sample glass I drank made my face warm up.
. . .
I know some people say they don't have apple taste left once it's done. I had a very apple-e, somewhat tart flavor.

I've been working through the entire thread to put together a summary FAQ and have been noticing a pattern with the "apple flavor" comments. It appears that most of the people here making apfelwine are primarily beer brewers rather than wine vintners. Many first-time batches are accompanied by the complaint of little apple flavor....and in subsequent batches from the same people, it's less of a complaint. I suspect that many are expecting a relatively bold "apple juice" flavor rather than the much thinner and more watery (certainly less fragrant) flavor of young apfelwine. Once these brewers have passed the "third glass" test or brewed a couple of batches, they are commenting on delicate apple flavors and aromas with the initial tartness, rather than complaining about a lack of flavor. Yeasts are certainly a factor too - from the comments, it seems that Montrachet scrubs out more apple flavor initially than some of the other options. Red Star comments on Montrachet's likelihood of needing to manage sulphur production - perhaps the sulphur counters some of the apple flavors/scents? (I'm not an organic chemist...just a guess.)

what is BTP?...sorry if its a dumb question, still trying to learn allot from the site.

Heh...np. BTP = Beer Tools Pro. You also might see abbreviations for other brewing sotware: BS = BeerSmith (any version); BS2 = BeerSmith v2; PM = ProMash; BW = Brewer's Warehouse website. Any of these can be used to calculate predictions in your brews, but accurate input data on the ingredients is crucial.
 
I had already found that info. Unfortunately it only contains the temp range info and no indicator of attenuation range and flocculation characteristics.

Still looking for attenuation and flocculation info for input in BTP...

My first batch of Apfelwein was made exactly according to the diretions on p. 1. I can tell you what happened. It didn't ferment that quickly, but it fermented down to 0.998, pretty much the standard complete attenuation for Montrachet.

Flocculation is a tougher call with cider / apfelwein, as the cloudiness in the finished product may be due to multiple causes. There is pectin (a compound found in fruit) as well as yeast in suspension. My batch cleared up.....pretty well. I added 1/4 t. of pectic enzyme, but that was after the main fermentation, in the secondary, so I don't know if it's had any effect. I may be able to tell more on this issue when I do another batch.
 
It appears that most of the people here making apfelwine are primarily beer brewers rather than wine vintners. Many first-time batches are accompanied by the complaint of little apple flavor....and in subsequent batches from the same people, it's less of a complaint. I suspect that many are expecting a relatively bold "apple juice" flavor rather than the much thinner and more watery (certainly less fragrant) flavor of young apfelwine.

You are right on in my case. I am a beer brewer who never made wine before of any kind. However, I probably tasted so much apple in my wine because I never drink anything sweet. I drink water and beer, period. I can't remember the last time I had a glass of apple juice. It might have been years. I don't even sugar my coffee and so forth. Therefore I probably was just very sensitive to whatever apple/sweetness was going on in there.

I bought some sorbate so when I make a 4 gallon batch and it's done fermenting I'm going to stop the yeast and add another gallon of juice to it. It will lower the ABV a little but at least I'll have a batch on hand where I won't have to hear people saying "I thought it would be more apple-e."

Either that or I'll leave that batch in a secondary until it's big day and then pour the apple juice in that evening.
 
Does anyone know of any benefit to let it sit in the primary for 3 months vs 2 months?

I'm bottling a pale ale this weekend and my first batch of apfelwein will be aged 2 months then as well.
 
lseabo00 said:
Does anyone know of any benefit to let it sit in the primary for 3 months vs 2 months?

I'm bottling a pale ale this weekend and my first batch of apfelwein will be aged 2 months then as well.

I bottled mine after two months and i thought it was great. It didn't last long.
 
BeerDoctor5 said:
I bottled mine after two months and i thought it was great. It didn't last long.

Thanks. I need to get some bottles then. This will be bottled and put away for Christmas presents, so it should be sufficiently aged.
 
I have made a couple batches of this stuff using both Montrachet and Red Star Champagne Yeast.

As other has mentioned, this stuff is pretty hoochy when it's first bottled. Just bottled some more today...tastes kind of like box wine. Give it at least six months before you sample. At 1 year it tastes fantastic. I can't wait till this batch properly aged. My stockpiles are running very low :drunk:
 
I suppose that's accurate, but the real question is what the "suspended apple particles" are actually composed of. If they are truly particles of apple fibers, that would sediment out as the juice sits in the original packaging. It is proteins and pectins that generally stay in solution (as well as yeasts/bacteria, but you should be free of those until adding intentionally).

A generous dose of pectic enzyme (available at your LHBS) will help the pectins break down and settle out. Yeasts will flocculate out of solution on their own once they eat up the digestibles if given enough time (from your dry FG, I'm thinking you don't have a suspended yeast issue here).

Proteins are much more difficult to deal with and are generally dealt with in one of three ways: filtering (not really worth the bother for apfelwine - and could aversely affect aging), cold-crashing (always worth a try before bottling if you have the fridge space or a cold river/pond), and fining. If you choose to fine your apfelwine, some of the beer finings could work well, although I'd recommend the wine-focused finings, such as ClarityFerm that don't require any boiling to work properly.

Finally, if you still have any issues, adding yeast nutrients (compare to mead recipes for amounts/types to add) can significantly help the yeast to chew through anything extra that might be in solution (helps with fermentation odor too).



I've been working through the entire thread to put together a summary FAQ and have been noticing a pattern with the "apple flavor" comments. It appears that most of the people here making apfelwine are primarily beer brewers rather than wine vintners. Many first-time batches are accompanied by the complaint of little apple flavor....and in subsequent batches from the same people, it's less of a complaint. I suspect that many are expecting a relatively bold "apple juice" flavor rather than the much thinner and more watery (certainly less fragrant) flavor of young apfelwine. Once these brewers have passed the "third glass" test or brewed a couple of batches, they are commenting on delicate apple flavors and aromas with the initial tartness, rather than complaining about a lack of flavor. Yeasts are certainly a factor too - from the comments, it seems that Montrachet scrubs out more apple flavor initially than some of the other options. Red Star comments on Montrachet's likelihood of needing to manage sulphur production - perhaps the sulphur counters some of the apple flavors/scents? (I'm not an organic chemist...just a guess.)



Heh...np. BTP = Beer Tools Pro. You also might see abbreviations for other brewing sotware: BS = BeerSmith (any version); BS2 = BeerSmith v2; PM = ProMash; BW = Brewer's Warehouse website. Any of these can be used to calculate predictions in your brews, but accurate input data on the ingredients is crucial.

Awesome post and great idea for a FAQ and a comparison of different yeast effects on apple flavor.... :mug:
 
"Cocktails

The most common cocktail is the Sauergespritzer, which is Apfelwein blended with 30% mineral water. The Tiefgespritzter or Batschnasser are varieties which use more mineral water. Also common is the Süssgespritzer, which is Apfelwein blended with lemon soda, orange soda or fresh-pressed apple juice (lemon soda being the most common). Less commonly, Apfelwein is blended with cola, and is referred to as a KE (for Kola-Eppler); in Frankfurt am Main it is known as a "Korea", while east of Frankfurt the names "Panzer" ("tank") or "Panzersprit" ("tank fuel") are used. Rarer still, Apfelwein can be mixed with beer. This combination is named Bembelschlabber, similar to a snakebite."

Tank fuel.. wiki
 
thanks will do..... any one try apple and white grape juice ?

I have a carboy cleaner (power one) that I can put beaters on and do it all the time, be careful not to add the sugar right on top of the yeast, it can shock it, I ahve done that before, thus the power stirrer
 
I started a batch in late January, and just bottled yesterday. I used Kirkland's apple juice from Costco, which is not from concentrate, and it turned out absolutely delightful.

In the next batch, I'm going to add another pound of dextrose, to try and up the alcohol content, because I have friends who like to get lit quickly. :drunk:

Thanks, EdWort!
 
wonder what it would be like if someone added candy too it?
.....................
Deep Amber (290F)
-Deep amber with full red colors. Raisins and plums are the dominant flavors with a hint of toast and coffee. Some rummy and mildly woody flavors. Strong complex caramels are present. It is a sophisticated sweetness with a robust, full characteristic. This is my favorite.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
2 – 1/2 tsp DAP
1 – 1/2 Cup Water
 
wonder what it would be like if someone added candy too it?
.....................
Deep Amber (290F)
-Deep amber with full red colors. Raisins and plums are the dominant flavors with a hint of toast and coffee. Some rummy and mildly woody flavors. Strong complex caramels are present. It is a sophisticated sweetness with a robust, full characteristic. This is my favorite.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
2 – 1/2 tsp DAP
1 – 1/2 Cup Water

It might be well for those unfamiliar with the process to know that what is being referred to as "Deep Amber" sugar is produced by doing something similar to this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/
 
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