Bottling with jars

I just got done bottling my IPA in mason jars. Forced carbonated them with my buddy's legging system. Tests amazing, hopefully it won't get mixed up with moonshine apple pie. Anyone else try to bottle with mason jars?

Nope, not yet.
The amount of head space and the large surface exposed to air maybe a bit of an issue.

IslandLizard said:

Nope, not yet.
The amount of head space and the large surface exposed to air maybe a bit of an issue.

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I'd say it turned out pretty good

Are mason jars designed to withstand positive pressure inside? I thought canning jars hold a vacuum.

The caps did pop a little, but it's maintaining the pressure well so far. Granted this is a first trial, and honestly a last because of the space it takes up. Plus I like to hand out beers to people to taste and a mason jar is a little obvious

Ill advised. Though it may work on occasion, it's bound to fail. Use bottles designed to hold pressure.

45thparallelhopper said:

I just got done bottling my IPA in mason jars. Forced carbonated them with my buddy's legging system.

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What the heck's a "legging system"?

Yuri_Rage said:

Ill advised. Though it may work on occasion, it's bound to fail. Use bottles designed to hold pressure.

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Agreed.

IslandLizard said:

Nope, not yet.
The amount of head space and the large surface exposed to air maybe a bit of an issue.

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No, not an issue at all. Because...............

passedpawn said:

Are mason jars designed to withstand positive pressure inside? I thought canning jars hold a vacuum.

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Yep. Canning jars hold a vacuum, but not pressure. The lids won't seal so the beer will be flat, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, the lids will seal and the jars will explode.

Either way, it's a bad idea and either flat beer or glass bombs will occur. Maybe both, depending on how the jars are sealed (ie the lids).

I'd get them out of the jars immediately before anybody gets hurt.

So for safety's sake, what are my options to save the beer?

45thparallelhopper said:

So for safety's sake, what are my options to save the beer?

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Start drinkin

oneandahalfshepherds said:

Start drinkin

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I would gladly, but it's about 8% and there are 10 16 oz jars left. And my son likes to wake up real early. But the lions play tomorrow, so that justifies it

45thparallelhopper said:

I would gladly, but it's about 8% and there are 10 16 oz jars left. And my son likes to wake up real early. But the lions play tomorrow, so that justifies it

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Invite a few friends and you'll be done with that batch.

No more bottling in mason jars please.

Has anyone ever actually TESTED any of these theories? Is there any empirical evidence to support the "dangers", or is it all conjecture and/or anecdotal?

Get Savage and Hyneman on the job.

Either that, or I'll steal some of my SWMBO's canning jars and start doing it myself... ;-)

brewmcq said:

Has anyone ever actually TESTED any of these theories? Is there any empirical evidence to support the "dangers", or is it all conjecture and/or anecdotal?

Get Savage and Hyneman on the job.

Either that, or I'll steal some of my SWMBO's canning jars and start doing it myself... ;-)

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I've never tested it- so it's just conjecture.

I can, though- and if you think about it, the jars/lids hold negative pressure (ie a vacuum) but not intense pressure. If you've ever had a jar of food go bad, the lid starts to bulge outward- and then the seal is broken. In other words, the vacuum holds the lid down as well as sealing the jar works to keep it closed. Once pressure starts up, the lid should give. That's by design, to avoid exploding canning jars if a microbe gets in there.

What that means is that if the carbonation holds, the lid will not. It's part of the safety fallbacks on canning.

So, no, I never put carbonated beverages in mason jars and sealed them. If the seals hold (doubtful), the bottles may not explode. But they probably will. The seal should give up before the bottles explode though- simply because that is how they are designed.

I do a ton of canning, and if you have ever canned with mason jars and lids, it would not be a stretch to make the assumption that the lids will not hold carbonation.

We do a ton of canning as well, and my family has always canned everything as well.

It just sudden struck me though, that as I read through many of the threads on the forum, I see a lot of people making statements about whatever, and I find myself wondering "has this actually been tested?"

As for canning jars, I'm very well aware of the physics behind canning... however, if the rings are tightened on, I don't see why the seals on the lids wouldn't hold...

I am definitely going to test this. grab a jar and a lid and a ring and set up a nipple on the lid that I can attach an air compressor to and start filling it... see how much pressure it will take before it shatters and/or the seal on the lid fails.

Of course, all possible safety precautions will be taken...

brewmcq said:

I find myself wondering "has this actually been tested?"

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People on this forum have bottled in Mason Jars, let it sit for 1.5 yrs, and in the end the beer was still carbed and no explosions. I wouldn't recommend it though.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/mason-jars-157687/#post1818377

passedpawn said:

People on this forum have bottled in Mason Jars, let it sit for 1.5 yrs, and in the end the beer was still carbed and no explosions. I wouldn't recommend it though.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/mason-jars-157687/#post1818377

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That sounds pretty conclusive to me.. lol

The jars have been doing good so far, but I think since they have been at a constant cold temp, there has been chance for possible expansion to cause a break(in lid or jar).

I do not plan on letting them sit around either way, only a few left to go though now

I do not bottle in mason jars but sure as heck drink beer out of em!

I bought a bunch of 750ML SS water bottles from the dollar store here in canada for 3$ each. They are basically No-Name Clean Kanteens.

They work great so far! Good for golfing, they have wide mouths so easy to clean in dishwasher and are very light and space saving. Also, the seal on them is a screw and works exceptionally well.

brewmcq said:

...I am definitely going to test this. grab a jar and a lid and a ring and set up a nipple on the lid that I can attach an air compressor to and start filling it... see how much pressure it will take before it shatters and/or the seal on the lid fails.

Of course, all possible safety precautions will be taken...

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Hey Mythbuster,

Be really, really careful when doing such crazy experiments. Exploding glass jars with a gas is way, way more destructive than with a liquid or solid (like freezing an overfilled mason jar), since the pressure doesn't drop immediately. Gas keeps expanding until it reaches an equilibrium and that takes a lot of volume. Of course this causes shrapnel to be propelled at high velocity. If you need an illustration, there are some recent pictures on this board where a brewer had bottles explode in his shower stall and it caused a lot of property damage. Search for "boom."

You would need a very strong surrounding container to prevent glass shards flying everywhere with high velocity. An oil drum with a vented lid comes to mind, not unlike bomb squad equipment.

IslandLizard said:

Hey Mythbuster,

Be really, really careful when doing such crazy experiments. Exploding glass jars with a gas is way, way more destructive than with a liquid or solid (like freezing an overfilled mason jar), since the pressure doesn't drop immediately. Gas keeps expanding until it reaches an equilibrium and that takes a lot of volume. Of course this causes shrapnel to be propelled at high velocity. If you need an illustration, there are some recent pictures on this board where a brewer had bottles explode in his shower stall and it caused a lot of property damage. Search for "boom."

You would need a very strong surrounding container to prevent glass shards flying everywhere with high velocity. An oil drum with a vented lid comes to mind, not unlike bomb squad equipment.

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Let's assume for a minute that I'm not a complete idiot, kthx.

brewmcq said:

Let's assume for a minute that I'm not a complete idiot, kthx.

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Well, I know you're not a complete idiot. You might have parts missing.

You did make me laugh with that- and of course everyone who knows you knows you're not a complete idiot. We just want you to be careful, of course! I've some accidents in brewing that remind us all to be careful, and we don't you to be one of them, that's all!

Yooper said:

Well, I know you're not a complete idiot. You might have parts missing.

You did make me laugh with that- and of course everyone who knows you knows you're not a complete idiot. We just want you to be careful, of course! I've some accidents in brewing that remind us all to be careful, and we don't you to be one of them, that's all!

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Lol. Thank you, Yooper... And yes, all the important bits are intact. Lol

My job is fighting the forces of evolution and natural selection.. I've seen purple do some damn stupid things.. But yeah, when I'm about to do something dangerous, I take all possible safety precautions.

Besides, if I do something stupid, I would never live it down at work... And that is worth than death or dismemberment.. Lol

If the glass in canning jars can hold a vacuum and most canning jars are also freeze rated which causes pressure, what makes you think the glass isn't strong enough to hold carbonation. There is alot of speculation with no backup. Then everyone jumps on the person who wants to test it. Also canning jars are boiled to create pressure due to expansion then cooled as they seal to create the vacuum. So they will hold pressure.

Waterlogd2005 said:

If the glass in canning jars can hold a vacuum and most canning jars are also freeze rated which causes pressure, what makes you think the glass isn't strong enough to hold carbonation. There is alot of speculation with no backup. Then everyone jumps on the person who wants to test it. Also canning jars are boiled to create pressure due to expansion then cooled as they seal to create the vacuum. So they will hold pressure.

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But the lids won't. They pop off (or unseal) if there is pressure pushing out.

And yes, the jars hold some pressure (the vacuum part) but aren't designed to hold a volume of c02 like some beers and ciders. I don't know how carbed up this beer is- but if it's something like 4 volumes of c02, that could be quite dangerous.

Yooper said:

But the lids won't. They pop off (or unseal) if there is pressure pushing out.

And yes, the jars hold some pressure (the vacuum part) but aren't designed to hold a volume of c02 like some beers and ciders. I don't know how carbed up this beer is- but if it's something like 4 volumes of c02, that could be quite dangerous.

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I'm not sure how others do their canning, but we put screw-on lids on ours...

There's what, a year and a half of data that shows the lids will stay in place and that the jars don't become bombs.

At this point, I have to call it plausible.

Waterlogd2005 said:

If the glass in canning jars can hold a vacuum and most canning jars are also freeze rated which causes pressure, what makes you think the glass isn't strong enough to hold carbonation.

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The ability to hold a vaccuum is not directly correlated with the ability to hold pressure. My car tires hold quite a bit of pressure, but if you apply a vaccuum, they just shrivel up into a pile of wilted rubber.

Canning jars are designed for the lid to seal itself onto the jar when the vaccuum is created inside the jar. Those screw-on rings are optional. After the canning process, you don't even need the screw-on rings. The lids will stay put entirely due to the the vaccum. In fact, you're not SUPPOSED to keep the rings on them, because as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, if a contaminant somehow infects the jar's contents and ferments, creating pressure, the screw-on rings would prevent the lid from releasing the excess pressure, leading to a potential explosion.

Waterlogd2005 said:

Also canning jars are boiled to create pressure due to expansion then cooled as they seal to create the vacuum. So they will hold pressure.

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Have you ever even done canning?

Boiling the jars does not create "pressure" in them. Nor does steaming them inside a pressure canner. It creates pressure inside the canner, but the pressure between the jar's contents and the rest of the interior space of the canner is equalized. The whole kit-and-kaboodle is considerably higher than the pressure OUTSIDE the canner, but that's irrelevant. The jars inside the canner are not holding any pressure. It's 15 psi inside the jars, and it's 15 psi OUTSIDE the jars (but still inside the canner chamber). Hence, no pressure.

The vaccuum comes from when the superheated air in the headspace of the jars cools and contracts, sucking the lids down onto the rims of the jars, creating a seal. But that's very different from holding positive pressure.

I top-crop actively fermenting yeast into mason jars all the time. Sometimes I get too much beer and fermentation continues in the jar. Makes a terrible mess in the fridge. Even with tightly-screwed lids, the foam breaks the seal and shoots out. Not oozes; it sprays everywhere. Haven't had a jar explode. But that's ale yeast at fridge temps.

I don't love pushing boundaries with glass and pressure.

Yes i do can. I was mistaking volume expanding pushing out air pressure with air pressure increasing. Jars are designed to release pressure when heated then seal when cooled and air and volume decrease. Also rigid containers react to air pressure differently than elastic surfaces. Your car tires expand the more pressure you place in tgem. That is why you have to maintain certain pressure to have the tire ride and wear properly.