Mark 2 Keg Washer

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FYI - I wrote Mark and here is his response:

1.) When attempting to attach the 3/16" hose to the tee that goes to the ball lock connector, without overt pressure, I twisted the connection off - see picture below. This resulted in a $10 home improvement store run even before getting started.

The vendor used low quality HDPE without my knowing it, there are appearently several grades of hdpe, I am having them run a batch in higher quality HDPE and also in Nylon. A few guys have reported this problem. If you keep the unit, send me your address and I will replace the one that broke.

2.) SPLASHING. holy. splashing. Over the course of PBWing the above items, I lost 1/2 gallon of liquid. It got so bad that I had to place a large tupperware lid under the keg washer to catch all of the excess fluid. This device would be a lot better off if the lip was about an inch taller. Per the instructions I added the shrub sprinkler with no noticeable change.

Some of the bigger buckets that go right up to the edge will spash over the edge depending on how the bottom of the bucket is formed. The sprinker head worked on the ones I tested. You might also try reducing the pump flow by partially closing the input to the pump. Some buckets are just going to splash no matter what I do. Buckets are fairly easy to clean by hand, carboys and kegs are where the keg and carboy washer really does the job. Did you lose the 1/2 gallon mostly on the bucket? Was the 1/2 gallon lost after all the items mentioned (8 corny kegs, etc)? The unit is really not designed to clean that many items in a row, although, I guess you could. It is really meant to be used while brewing, like sanitizing a keg, then cleaning a carboy. My whole idea was to make setup and use so easy that dirty stuff would not pile up to be cleaned later. If you were cleaning a bunch of stuff like that, I'd just do that in the utility room or the back patio and anticipate some splashing.

3.) No drain? Seriously? You're right, it's not THAT difficult of a job to tilt the thing out into a bucket but after a few instances of spilling I found myself siphoning. I promptly ran to Lowes and installed my own drain solution.
I designed it not to have a drain, leak considerations. I made it light enough to just dump out. I will probably never break even on this unit, getting plastic injection molds are very expensive. A drain would have cost about $10,000 in addtional mold costs. A drain in the side would not have completely drained the unit and people would have complained about that, so I couldn't win on that one either way. At less than 7 pounds full of water, I did not see it coming that people would want a drain so badly. I just take the carboy and stand off, rinse the pump and then dump the dirty liquid in the sink and rinse it off all at the same time.

In hindsight I wish I would have built my own, saved a fair amount of cash and got a product I was comfortable would do such a simple job.

Sorry you are so unhappy with the unit, go ahead and return it to more beer, they will be very happy to refund your money. Lots of guys make their own keg washers. Check you tube for lots of examples. I made this unit for people who did not want to go to the trouble of building their own, but it's not for everybody. Also, I have never taken a sump pump apart, so not sure what is inside and if it will stay as clean as I wanted it to. Most of the do-it-yourself stuff uses a sump pump.
Thanks for your feed back

Cheers,

Mark
Click to expand...

and mine...

Mark,

Thank you for your prompt reply. For the record, I am not "so unhappy" that I am interested in returning the product. I was simply concerned with the quality of product I got for the money.

I am rather satisfied with your response and candor. I simply wanted to get a sense of what can be done to remedy the challenges I am having from a pro. It is rather unusual to be able to speak with the proprietor directly and your reply is much appreciated. The high level of customer service you provide will go a long way in communities like HomeBrewTalk.com.

I look forward to the updates that will help make the product more complete.

Best Regards,
--
Lucas
Click to expand...
 
Does anyones pumps make a crackle like sound when it starts up. Finally got mine, and ran it with water and OxyClean. Crackle Crackle Crackle, and then it pushes an awesome stream of steady water, with no more sounds other than the traditional sound of a pump moving water. My water level is good. I even ran it in my sink with more than enough water, still get the crackles. I e-mailed Mark, and am waiting for his reply.
 
Yes - I have this too. Also, there have been several times when plugging it in does nothing. Unplug, plug in, nothing, unplug, plug in, nothing, unplug, plug in - boom, it starts up.
 
The 'crackle' sound is the water/fluid priming throughout the pump. All similar pumps should make this sound. Even the pond pumps will sound the same.

If the pump isn't working, that's either the pump or the outlet and not related to the sound.
 
Mark's keg washer is on deal of the day at Morebeer today. 13 left at this time.
 
I got one woot. I also had built my own. But between trying to make too many connections to clean too many things, and instability, I broke down and ordered this one. 89 shipped is crazy. First keg washer looked much better though, but I think this one will do fine and I can use my current pump to recirc an icebath for wort chilling!

Thanks mark!
 
We obtained a "free dishwasher" and cut it in half. I screwed and siliconed the door. I wired up two switches in a waterproof box to the side. I plumbed Ball lock gas and beer out to the drain ( as well as a garden hose connection). I did hot glue closed the out side holes in the central spray assembly, We can clean our 27 Gallon Stout conical as well as a 45 gallon Stout Mash Tun with ease. Cost about $50. Larger footprint but will clean more things. It also does not splash. Uses about 2 gallons of PBW!
 
oakbarn said:
We obtained a "free dishwasher" and cut it in half. I screwed and siliconed the door. I wired up two switches in a waterproof box to the side. I plumbed Ball lock gas and beer out to the drain ( as well as a garden hose connection). I did hot glue closed the out side holes in the central spray assembly, We can clean our 27 Gallon Stout conical as well as a 45 gallon Stout Mash Tun with ease. Cost about $50. Larger footprint but will clean more things. It also does not splash. Uses about 2 gallons of PBW!
Click to expand...

Sounds like a beast...photos???
 
What about a connection for the gas side. To me this is a glaring design flaw that should be fixed in a subsequent model.

-J
 
Jazong said:
What about a connection for the gas side. To me this is a glaring design flaw that should be fixed in a subsequent model.

-J
Click to expand...

I use a simple "t" and a qd for both the liquid and gas sides. I wouldnt call it a flaw as some dont want to clean the gas side and for those who do a "t" and a qd are the only additions. My "t" cost less than a dollar.
 
Does the pump have enough juice to run cleaner through both? I shouldn't have to modify the thing to get it to do its job. Why wouldn't someone want to clean the gas side?

-J
 
Jazong said:
Does the pump have enough juice to run cleaner through both? I shouldn't have to modify the thing to get it to do its job. Why wouldn't someone want to clean the gas side?

-J
Click to expand...

Yes, it does have enough power. However many people take the posts off to clean a keg just as i do every other time. What you are asking IS a modification, albeit one i find useful sometimes.

What "modification" would you have in the vext revision? Including a "t"? Have you emailed mark with your concerns?
 
Contacted Mark? No, it would be just as easy to modify it myself. I think tubing and a T would be a good addition. As long as the pump can run both sides as you said.

Not sure why someone would take a keg apart to clean it when they have just purchased a keg cleaner. That would be completely counter productive. Dr. Scott from the Brewing Network has said he hasn't taken a keg apart in years, and he won gold at the National Homebrew Conference last year.

-J
 
Jazong said:
Contacted Mark? No, it would be just as easy to modify it myself. I think tubing and a T would be a good addition. As long as the pump can run both sides as you said.

Not sure why someone would take a keg apart to clean it when they have just purchased a keg cleaner. That would be completely counter productive. Dr. Scott from the Brewing Network has said he hasn't taken a keg apart in years, and he won gold at the National Homebrew Conference last year.

-J
Click to expand...

Some dude did this and that and look, he's a great/ award winning brewer!! Please, if you want something as clean as possible you have to take it apart and clean it. If you don't, you are assuming the risk.

Mark put together a very nice and economical cleaner for folks that didn't want to DYI (me). It's a great addition to the brew gear and one that I am more than happy with. It takes such little effort to unscrew your posts I'm not sure why anyone wouldnt. Seems like more work to connect and disconnect the QD's than just breaking out the old socket and unscrewing but this is just one man's opinion.
 
I built a better one in my garage. The only reason I bought Mark's is because the dye from the sump pump I used appeared to be bleeding into the water during long cycles of washing with PBW.

I ask again, what is the point of a keg washer when you have to take it apart to clean it anyhow? I could do that without a keg washer which makes Mark's not economical at all. If it is easier to get out a wrench that to use a QD you are not doing it right. Why would QDs ever have been invented if this were the case?

Oh ya... Tell me you don't learn from the habits of other brewers who you respect. If you don't why are you on a forum if not to learn? To throw flames would be my guess?

Here is the one I built.

https://picasaweb.google.com/107574824266384481817/BrewToys#5456478500228620930

https://picasaweb.google.com/107574824266384481817/BrewToys#5456478506771530850

-J
 
I do emulate the brewers that I respect but I am quite careful not to pick up bad habits such as not taking things apart to clean them. I felt you came on this thread to throw flames yourself. Mark has said several times that he made this device for folks who didn't want to make their own. The device works very well, period.
 
In my first post pointed out what I consider to be a design flaw. That was it. No flames. Every home built keg cleaner I've ever seen has a QD for the beer side and the gas side.

Once I make the modification and can actually use the keg washer I'll come back on this thread and give it a review, but for now all I can say is it is not what I expected having seen the original version (which was probably modified by the friend who owns it) and what I perceive to be a big difference in quality. I would have preferred to pay more for a piece of equipment that was at least comparable to the garage built units I've seen.

-J
 
Jazong, no flames here, I just disagree with you. I disagree the lack of a $.99 'T' warrants a complaint of a 'major oversight' and a needed revision in the next version. If you feel so strongly I would highly recommend emailing Mark as he has been very receptive to feedback.

On the disassembly of kegs it takes me literally less than a minute to disassemble 2 and less than a minute to assemble 2 again. That includes my time to dig my wrench out of my brewbox. As there are areas that wouldn't see heavy circulation of solution even with a high flow pump I'm not sure there is a downside but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and processes. With sanitation and cleanliness I rarely err on the side of saying 'close enough'. I credit this process to never having lost a batch to infection.
 
FYI, I've been talking with Mark over email about some of the improvements that could be made to the Keg washer and he has finished a few improvements. There will be a silicone grommet/spacer to raise the 6.5 gallon carboys and keep them from slipping and a nylon T-adapter which will be harder than the one currently included. From Mark:

The new parts should be arriving in about three weeks. As soon as they get here, I will be sending the grommets and nylon parts out to everybody who turned in a warranty card. Spread the word on that one if you could.
Click to expand...

So, make sure you send in your warranty card so he can send the new parts out to you. I'm looking forward to trying them out.
 
So, I'm having a problem getting my carboys totally clean. I'll fill up the base with hot water+PBW and let it run through the carboy for 20+ minutes, but I'm left with this ring around the top part of the carboy. It happens on all of them--6 gallon better bottles and 6 1/2 gallon glass carboys.

photo_223.JPG


photo_119.JPG


Any helpful hints? Ideas?
 
It sounds like you need to use more PBW. I'm not sure what effect soft or hard water would have on the cleaning power of PBW but with very hard tap water I use about 1-2 tbsp per fillup of the keg washer and hot tap water. Works like a charm.
 
I've been using water that goes through a water softener--I would think with softer water I'd be able to use my normal hot water to PBW ratio, but I'll try using more.
 
i've been using this wonderful machine for about 2 months now and can't be any happier. here are my observations

The good:
  • relatively cheap. To build you own with the same quality of parts and features, you're only paying about a $20 premium. The inclusion of specialty fittings is a huge plus! If you build you own and break something, it automatically costs more than this unit. let's face it, if you could afford a kegging system, you can afford this.
  • it works out of the box. no tweaking required. it starts saving you time immediately (and that is the whole reason you bought the thing)
  • saves you money by only using a gallon of solution (PBW, starsan, etc). because of this, it should pay for itself in just a few years. potentially uses a bit less than a home built system
  • small footprint. good new for us with limited space.
  • small part count. only 3 main parts to transport, assemble, clean, etc.
  • cleans glass carboys really well. i've intentionally put some really dirty things in there and with enough PBW and time they've always come clean (with zero extra work from me). because of this product, i've completely switched to glass carboys
  • cleans kegs really well. i used to devote hours to cleaning kegs. now i clean them in parallel on a brew day.
The bad:
  • because of the small volume of solution used, you'll need to change it often when cleaning really dirty stuff. this is an expected side effect. i'm willing to live with it.
  • when full of water, can be a little flimsy when carrying it across the room. this is worse when you use really hot water. i don't think that it needs a drain because it is a rather small volume and it is easy to carry. It is not flimsy enough to be called cheap, just flimsy enough to spill water and create a mess
  • not sure if it saves money in the long term. with the time saved, i'm just drinking more, brewing more and buying more things...

add-ons i'd pay extra for:
 
Anyone know where to find the Serial Number on the Mark II? I have to remember to send in the warranty card and can't find the SN.
 
I contacted Mark but he was unaware if this would work on 10 and 15 gal corny kegs. I went ahead and purchased one any way. Will report back with my findings later in the week when I get it.
 
Ok tested this out today on a crusty 10 gal corny which was used for fermentation. Did a pre rinse to dump the cake and just sprayed the inside with hot water to pre clean it. The vessel sits well on the stand, was comfortable walking away from it while it cleaned. 15 min of oxi clean water almost cleanned it completly, next time I will hit it with a brush before using this washer. Think this product will be great for sanitizing on brew day. Way less water has to be used, no longer have to dump and waste 7-8gal of sanitized water on brew day.
 
rockethacker said:
i've been using this wonderful machine for about 2 months now and can't be any happier. here are my observations

The good:
  • relatively cheap. To build you own with the same quality of parts and features, you're only paying about a $20 premium. The inclusion of specialty fittings is a huge plus! If you build you own and break something, it automatically costs more than this unit. let's face it, if you could afford a kegging system, you can afford this.
  • it works out of the box. no tweaking required. it starts saving you time immediately (and that is the whole reason you bought the thing)
  • saves you money by only using a gallon of solution (PBW, starsan, etc). because of this, it should pay for itself in just a few years. potentially uses a bit less than a home built system
  • small footprint. good new for us with limited space.
  • small part count. only 3 main parts to transport, assemble, clean, etc.
  • cleans glass carboys really well. i've intentionally put some really dirty things in there and with enough PBW and time they've always come clean (with zero extra work from me). because of this product, i've completely switched to glass carboys
  • cleans kegs really well. i used to devote hours to cleaning kegs. now i clean them in parallel on a brew day.
The bad:
  • because of the small volume of solution used, you'll need to change it often when cleaning really dirty stuff. this is an expected side effect. i'm willing to live with it.
  • when full of water, can be a little flimsy when carrying it across the room. this is worse when you use really hot water. i don't think that it needs a drain because it is a rather small volume and it is easy to carry. It is not flimsy enough to be called cheap, just flimsy enough to spill water and create a mess
  • not sure if it saves money in the long term. with the time saved, i'm just drinking more, brewing more and buying more things...

add-ons i'd pay extra for:
Click to expand...

I did build my own for about $10 as I already had a pump ( the Pump is available from harbor Freight for about $14). I use a 5 gal bucket and have both a gray and black cornelius keg connector on at the same time. I like my own build and I made another so I can rinse with tap water.
 
MarkII said:
Hey Everybody,

Mark at Mark's Keg Washer again.

I just wanted to thank everybody for all the great feedback, you have given me a lot of great ideas, and I really like the positive feedback.

I think my first project will be a rubber grommet type thing to put on the keg washer stand. That will give it some non-slip action and also give some elevation so the 6.5 gallon carboys will fit better. I found one of my carboys wasnt completely symetrical and tended to slide to one side if left alone or bumped.

I am also working on a retro-fit for the clips to make them a lot stronger. As a test, I removed the clips from a unit and set a carboy on it, it holds even without the clips, but if bumped it, it would definately fall over. Make sure all the clips are engaged and if you have to bend the clips in to make them engage better, that's fine. This plastic is really flexible and strong. It tends to bend rather than break.

If you guys have a keg washer, be sure to fill out the warranty card and I will send you the mods as they become available. There is a long lead time on this stuff, so it will probably be a few months. Getting plastic injection molds modified takes a lot of time and money like you wouldn't believe.

I am very happy with the keg washer as is, but a few tweaks will definately make it even better.

Thanks a lot. I can always be reached at [email protected]

Cheers,
Mark
Click to expand...

Have there been any mod updates?
 
Second time I used mine the fitting connecting the pump to the spray wand broke of in the pump. The break was all the way around the fitting through the middle three threads. Didn't someone else have this same problem?

-J
 
If you sent in your warranty card, Mark has sent out all the updates free of charge. If you didn't you should do so ASAP. He sent out a grommet and replacement fitting (the one just mentioned), both of which are an improvement over the originals. I've had zero problems with mine since the updates.

I'd say too, there are few companies I've dealt with that have been so responsive to user feedback and improving their product. Mark gets an A+ from me.
 
Thanks to this thread, I went ahead and bought Marks Keg/Carboy washer and have used it several times.

The good-

1) Does a great job on the cornies as well as the 6 gallon glass carboys. I have not had anything so stuck inside the carboys that the washer with oxyclean free could not clean..yet
2) Great pump- plenty of volume
3) I had absolutely zero issues with carboys/cornies falling. Seems fairly solid

The bad-

1) Cheap flimsy hose barbs for the connectors- I can see how they would break, bend and contort
2) As others have stated, no drain for the liquid- lift and pour- I will rectify this myself. :)
3) Relatively shallow basin- Would be good to have a bit more volume, but may not be feasible to keep manufacturing costs semi low.


Suggestions

Go with some higher quality pipe fittings for attaching the quick connectors and possible a "T" to do both sides.

I seen a need to have something to clean my beer lines and didn't want to have more tools than what I could store.
I picked up a few 1/2 pvc caps at home depot along with a 1/4 flare to 1/4 MIP as well. I drilled the cap for the 1/4 pipe (12.2mm 1/2drill will probably be fine) and tapped.
Threaded it onto the extension that comes with the pump at the top and hooked it up to the beer lines. Took a 2 ft section of 1/2 silicone hose and pushed it over the end of the perlick tap to return the liquid to the basin. Turned it on and let the oxyclean flow- Works great!
I will rinse it with water a few times, but I don't have to have a separate cleaning unit for my taps.

Part# for the flare; 17000080
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100637812/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=17000080&storeId=10051#.UGiioHm4wz8
Part# for the cap; Store SKU # 29423 (verify as I didn't remember the number)
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100148525/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=1%2F2+pvc+pipe+cap&storeId=10051#.UGikDXm4wz8

I think the total cost on this was around $8-$10.00 including the silicone tubing.


I like to make as many things as I can multi-purpose. I just don't have the room for all the equipment that we all would like to have. :mug:
 
I seen one guy post that this works with a 10 gallon corny. Anyone else? Is it tippy?
 
Just got mine in today and couldn't wait to use it, as I've been putting off cleaning 6 dirty cornies. I couldn't stop cleaning; it was great! I cleaned all 6 kegs, dip tubes, gas intakes, and also my Blichmann Therminator since I could never really clean the interior besides immediately backflushing after chilling. The hose barb attachment really facilitated the hookup while cleaning my hoses at the same time. I had zero problems and enjoyed the fact that it holds less liquid than the original model; thus needing less cleaning solvent, which is a money saver. I love this washer! I bought a Rotating CIP Ball from Brewers Hardware that fits on top of the spray wand to clean my buckets, carboys, and 15 Gallon Blichmann Fermenator. I've been dying to CIP that as the stainless interior is prone to accumulating excess beer stone. I've never been so excited to clean before and I haven't even touched on sanitation yet. Thanks Mark!
 
My apologies for practicing the dark art of necromancy with this thread, but this seems to be the font of knowledge about these. Anyone know if this works on the various sizes of Better Bottles? I would assume it does, but want to confirm. I use a mishmash of carboys but have just added better bottles to the mix and am considering getting one of these. (I'd like to avoid scrubbing except in the most dire of cases, given the switch to plastic.)

Many thanks in advance. Cheers!
 
I use mine with both the 5 and 6 gallon better bottles. I've found that it helps to give them a quick rinse with hot water before using the keg washer on them, and sometimes you need a little patience on really nasty krausen, but I would never go back to washing by hand.

Hope that helps. Cheers!
 

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