Another 1 bbl brewer

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MikeRLynch

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Ok, I think we need to start a nanobrewery group here so we can all swap info. It's looking like at least half a dozen people are going 55+ gallons.

My friends and I all went in on some very tasty ss tanks recently, 4 of the 60 gal ones pictured below, and one 120 gallon big sonofabitch. They're all on casters, (for now) and all have 2 inch triclover ballvalve drains on the bottom.

Our issue is that every opening in on the floor of the tank, not the side. Therefore we need ideas on how to do a false bottom with that kind of setup. Ideas? We're looking for both a hop filter for the BK and a regular bottom for the mash tun.

10229_691465290941_9003127_42070610_6335095_n.jpg
 
Do you have pictures of the inside and bottom?

Not yet, that pic is from the auction where we bought it. I will have a complete breakdown of our tanks, fittings, and brewing space by the weekend. We're looking to go all electric as well (my brewing partner is a master electrician) so any tips or advice along those lines is welcome as well.

I'll go check jaybird out right now.
 
It shouldn't be that difficult. Actually having the tank output at the bottom is an advantage because you will be able to retrieve every bit of wort possible. The other advantage is that you do not need a foldable false bottom. The foldable false bottom is needed to navigate around the couplings protruding through the side of the vessel when installing or removing the false bottom. The false bottom in your case can be pulled straight out of the vessel. You could purchase a piece of stainless steel preforated sheet and cut a circle out of the sheet slightly smaller than the diameter of the inside of your vessel. The screen can be suspended of the bottom of the tank in a number of ways, the most simple being stainless steel carriage bolts. Because your outputs are at the bottom, there is no need for a hole in the screen for a dip tube. This is another advantage of the outputs at the bottom.
 
Thanks Sawdustguy, another little bonus is that the bottom of each tank is slightly graded towards the valve, so all the liquid will run to the output.

I guess my concern rests more on the boil kettle side than the mash side. To cool it, we're thinking of getting a plate chiller. I assume we will have to recirculate the cooled wort back into the kettle to acheive a whirlpool, then drain off into the fermentor when the whole volume is to temp. I'm worried that the compacted hops and trub will cover the entire bottom, and be sucked through the screen (or worse, clog).
 
I agree, we need a new lobby on here called "nanobrewtalk.com"! Take it from me - you're in for an adventure! Lots of ways to skin this cat, thus no one here has the definitive answer to all your questions. That being said, there are lots of great ideas in any of these nano brewery threads.

Check out my thread for 55 gallon false bottom ideas. Could be helpful to you. I get mine from Jaybird today and I'll update how it all fits.


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/55-gal-drum-mash-tun-false-bottom-ideas-138941/


Regarding the chiller, get the biggest you can find. Its just a matter of time to cool, so it really depends on how long you're willing to allow your wort to cool. I found a big boy on ebay.

Also, I might suggest a side drain for your kettle, just above the bottom. No sense in whirlpooling if you drain out the bottom through a screen. Whirlpooling is effective for side draining kettles, because the perimeter of the vessel has the least amount of solids after the whirlpool.
 
Regarding the chiller, get the biggest you can find. Its just a matter of time to cool, so it really depends on how long you're willing to allow your wort to cool. I found a big boy on ebay.

Also, I might suggest a side drain for your kettle, just above the bottom. No sense in whirlpooling if you drain out the bottom through a screen. Whirlpooling is effective for side draining kettles, because the perimeter of the vessel has the least amount of solids after the whirlpool.

This makes a lot of sense, but I don't want to drill any more holes in my beautiful tanks if I dont absolutely have to. Besides, the beefy ball valve on the bottom is triclover, and it's just begging to be used. Commercial breweries do whirlpools, do they have bottom draining kettles? Or do they drain from the side as well?

Another option might be some kind of in-line coarse filter, but that seems like an infection risk.

BTW, what are the specs of that chiller you got? What should I look for when shopping for one?
 
Dont be scared! Talk to a welder. They'll hook you up with what you need!

Commercial breweries do it many different ways, but those that whirlpool like what you're talking about do not drain out the center bottom. They main drain on the bottom, but it would be on the perimeter. Some whirlpool kettles I've seen have the drain on the sidewall right on the bottom.

No specs on the heat exchanger. Just big. And heavy. 100 plates. 12" long. My 5 gallon setup uses a 12" long 5 plate chiller. This one has at least 20 times more surface area, so it should be good for 8 times more volume (I will do 40 gal batches). This is my lazy logic as a chemical engineer. I could be wrong, but we'll never know until I try!
 
Pangea, if you're using a continuous chiller, it doesn't matter how much liquid you're chilling. What matters is your log-mean temperature differential. As long as you're still getting your inlet temperatures (both on the process side and the product side) the same, your outlet temperatures should still be the same. You're just going to need more process water to chill a larger volume of wort! And it's going to take longer. If you want to do it FASTER, then you're going to need a larger chiller. But if you're ok still doing it at 5 gallon batch speeds, and just taking 8 times longer to cool the whole batch down, then you don't need to increase the size of your heat exchanger.

But a bigger heat exchanger is certainly better, if you've already got it. Just trying to help you save a few bucks.
 
Pangea, if you're using a continuous chiller, it doesn't matter how much liquid you're chilling. What matters is your log-mean temperature differential. As long as you're still getting your inlet temperatures (both on the process side and the product side) the same, your outlet temperatures should still be the same. You're just going to need more process water to chill a larger volume of wort! And it's going to take longer. If you want to do it FASTER, then you're going to need a larger chiller. But if you're ok still doing it at 5 gallon batch speeds, and just taking 8 times longer to cool the whole batch down, then you don't need to increase the size of your heat exchanger.

But a bigger heat exchanger is certainly better, if you've already got it. Just trying to help you save a few bucks.

Maybe I didn't explain very well. I bought a bigger heat exchanger using the logic you just laid out. I want the time to be the same for a larger volume. Inlet temps of all liquids remain the same. In order to increase the flow rate of wort I need to increase the heat transfer capacity of the heat exchanger with more surface area and higher efficiency. We're on the same page.
 
Maybe I didn't explain very well. I bought a bigger heat exchanger using the logic you just laid out. I want the time to be the same for a larger volume. Inlet temps of all liquids remain the same. In order to increase the flow rate of wort I need to increase the heat transfer capacity of the heat exchanger with more surface area and higher efficiency. We're on the same page.

:drunk: :eek:

Oops...my bad. Well then! Brew on, my friend, brew on! I wish I could brew that much at once, but I'm still stuck with glass carboys until I can budget for a much larger setup...
 
I would think that a full sized false bottom would be fine in the bk if you're using mostly leaf hops, they will act as a filter bed.
 
Commercial breweries do it many different ways, but those that whirlpool like what you're talking about do not drain out the center bottom. They main drain on the bottom, but it would be on the perimeter. Some whirlpool kettles I've seen have the drain on the sidewall right on the bottom.

The hole for the outlet is on the bottom, but it is on the side, near the wall like you mentioned. Where you see the pipe coming out from underneith the tank is where the hole is. Also, the floor of the tank grades down towards the hole slightly.

Overall, chilling and pumping seems to be the biggest issues we're going to be facing. Most of the sanitary, high temp pumps I've seen are for homebrew scale, 1/2" in/outlets. Also, the hightemp foodgrade hose is 1/2", and seems to be the safest way to go. There are triclover connectors that step down our 2" outlets to 1/2" barbed fittings, so we can use the homebrew scale equipment. Common wisdom is to cool wort as quickly as possible, but with such small transfer hose/pumps im worried it would take too long. How do people who brew at this volume cool/transfer/pump their wort?
 
What the heck do you do with all that beer? Surely you don't drink ALL of it. Do you guys sell it? Just curious.
 
What the heck do you do with all that beer? Surely you don't drink ALL of it. Do you guys sell it? Just curious.

SWMBO has thrown around words like, "alcoholic", I prefer the term "alcohol enthusiast." :drunk:

Actually we are looking at the viability of going pro at some point. With that in mind we located the brewery in a detached garage, as we can't have a production brewery attached to a residence in CT
 
For the MLT, figure out how big the holes you want in your false bottom, then buy a piece of perforated stainless and cut a circle matching the ID of the bottom of the tank. Possibly use small legs or SS bolts to give you desired depth or lift off the bottom of the tank.

As for a simple hops strainer, same idea, but instead of a full false bottom, find yourself a SS strainer, similar to this:
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Then remove the handle and devise a quick, 2 or 3 screw mounting device to the bottom of the tank, covering the outlet. This should get most of your hops when draining the BK
 
Are you currently able to sell your beer now?

As for a simple hops strainer, same idea, but instead of a full false bottom, find yourself a SS strainer, similar to this:
AAAAApjLz2QAAAAAACDCKA.jpg


Then remove the handle and devise a quick, 2 or 3 screw mounting device to the bottom of the tank, covering the outlet. This should get most of your hops when draining the BK

Jakeshivers: Negative, we're just putting together the brewery now, so we're more focused on equipment and construction. Once we get it cobbled together, we'll start doing pilot batches to figure out the system. Once we get some consistancy between batches, we'll start the process of building a business and shopping the product. We're doing this with pocket change, no investors and no loans. I'd like to start pilot production within a year.

Flountown: Good looks with the strainer. Instead of covering the whole bottom, we could use something like a hair-catcher on a shower, just covering the drain.

42908.jpg
 
Man, I would love to have a one barrel system. Really the only thing stopping me is space, money, knowledge, money, space, money...(I think you get the idea)

I guess for now I'll just drool at yours. Nothing like a huge hunk of stainless steel!
 
Flountown: Good looks with the strainer. Instead of covering the whole bottom, we could use something like a hair-catcher on a shower, just covering the drain.

42908.jpg

Yes, but as I am sure know, for optimal lautering you'd still want a full false bottom for the MLT.

For mounting options, I don't know if you are familiar with hockey equipment, but a system similar to mounting a cage on a hockey helmet could be devised to give you a flip-up drain cover, and still manage to be completely removable.
 
You will clog up a small surface area screen fast with all that beer

How so? The beer itself is irrelevant, being as the screen is only going to catch hops in the case of the BK. Not trying to be rude, but a coarse strainer isn't going to clog up in the boil, or at least I would not expect it to.
 
Many of us have tried to make screens for the dip tubes, and surface area is key to keeping the flow going. I't not the amount of liquid, but the amount of hops for that liquid that require more surface area.
 
I know, I actually climbed inside one and just sat there for a minute and pretended I was the beer we were about to make :drunk:

I guess when porter was big there was a battle of large fermenters among breweries. Some were so large they would even hold dances in them. How sweet is that?
 
So we may have solved our chilling issue. In talking with the local brewpub owner/brewer, he said that in his early days, he used a copper coil, immersed in water and frozen (in a bucket) and pumped the hot wort through the copper tubing. After a recirculation or two, the wort would be down to temp. Thoughts? My first hesitation would be that the copper would crack when frozen, but since the inside would be empty, it might not be an issue.
 
My friends and I have also been slowly piecing together a 1+ bbl system. Those damn stainless 55 gallon drums are hard to find.

I'll have to keep checking in on this thread for tips.
 
As for the iceblock bucket chiller idea, do what someone else said a few posts ago, Salt Ice Water. Adding some rock salt to a couple of pounds of ice and few gallons of water can affectively get the freezing point down to the mid-high 20's IIRC which allows you to have a cooling temperature colder than freezing and not have to worry about the expansion properties of freezing water.
 
I've heard of that trick with beer coolers before, sounds like a good option.

Expect many pics this weekend, tanks, brewhouse, electrical, water, etc
 
As for the iceblock bucket chiller idea, do what someone else said a few posts ago, Salt Ice Water. Adding some rock salt to a couple of pounds of ice and few gallons of water can affectively get the freezing point down to the mid-high 20's IIRC which allows you to have a cooling temperature colder than freezing and not have to worry about the expansion properties of freezing water.

This sounds like a winner to me. Just make sure to keep the wort moving through the coil while it is in the cold brine so you don't freeze the the coil and bust it since the wort will have a higher freeze temp than brine. Good luck with your project, it looks like a lot of fun! :mug:
 
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