Oops - hops in fermenter

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It's probably a no-no, but I did it with my first two batches and they were the best I've made so far........
 
It's no more a no-no as it is a yes yes, it really doesn't matter either way.

Some dump everything in, without straining, just pour it in the bucket or in the funnel....Some use a big strainer that fit in the funnel for a carboy, or a sanitized 5 gallon nylon paint strainer bag in the bucket...

I have done it all ways. It really doesn't matter...anything will settle.

In other words, there is no wrong way to do it, or better way, or way that will make the best beer...they all work...the choice is what will work the best for you. That's how you develop you own unique brewing process. By trying all ways and deciding what works best for you.

What I do with my IC, is chill the wort, then I lean the bottom of my autosiphon about two coils up from the bottom on the metal of the siphon. That rests it above most of the break material and trub, then I rack it to the fermenter until I'm down to that and carefully lower the siphon down into the gunk, just trying to get as much of the wort as possible without letting in the hops and break matter.

But pretty much up until I got my immersion chiller for christmas last year I just dumped for the majority of my batches.

Everything is fine, it won't affect the beer one way or another. It will settle down anyway.
 
Hops are a natural antiseptic and should have no negative effects on your beer :)

People DRY HOP all of the time (myself included) and I never filter or siphon off of the break of my beer - it ALL goes into my fermenter.

In fact - my last 2 batches I forgot to add the 5min aroma hops until the batch was halfway cooled.
Needless to say they still went in. :p
 
Thanks, guys. I really appreciate all the advice. Means a lot to someone who's brewed their first batch. Looking forward to brewing my next one already.
 
Absolutely! Believe it or not, Revvy was a n00b once upon a time too!

You will still have PLENTY of things to get nervous about for this batch yet, but the best part of it will be when you crack that first one and realize that your worrying wasnt all that necessary.

To (pseudo) quote the Great Revvster - "Beer is pretty hearty and ****. Dem mo-fos back in dah day was brewin' dat piff with half the cleanness of us over-worried beiotches up in herr"

In other words - its pretty tough to mess up a beer (and trust me Ive tried and seem to inadvertently try every damned brew day)
Absolute worst case - it goes good with cooking :)
 
I dump everything from my brewpot into the fermenter everysingle time. I don't own or use a filter either. Everything seems to settle out fine for me, I just siphon the beer and leave the sediment in the primary.
 
I wondered the same thing just a few months ago. Like Revvy said, it all settles out eventually. The only thing I really do is pour my wort into the fermenter slowly and stop pouring once I see the "hop gunk" being left behind.
 
One school of thought, I have read, is that if you dump the hops into the primary, you will get more hop utilization. I will see as I dumped everything from my Pale Ale boil into the primary. I will be kegging it later today if time allows.
 
I'm only one brew in. However, I inadvertently poured about 1/2 my gunk in my primary when I was filling it (wasn't expecting there to be so much, so it snuck up on me). Yet, I can honestly say I've thoroughly enjoyed the taste of each sample I've taken.

The wife say's it's bitter as hell, but she hates beer anyhow...to me the batch is magically delicious.
 
One school of thought, I have read, is that if you dump the hops into the primary, you will get more hop utilization. I will see as I dumped everything from my Pale Ale boil into the primary. I will be kegging it later today if time allows.

The problem with that train of thought is that you have to boil hops to extract the bittering acids, and after I think it's 30 minutes you destroy most of the flavor of the hops too.

My money is on no real change.
 
The problem with that train of thought is that you have to boil hops to extract the bittering acids, and after I think it's 30 minutes you destroy most of the flavor of the hops too.

My money is on no real change.

Yeah, once the AAs are isomerized in the boil, there's nothing left to them, THOSE have done their job, they are spent.
 
The problem with that train of thought is that you have to boil hops to extract the bittering acids, and after I think it's 30 minutes you destroy most of the flavor of the hops too.

My money is on no real change.
What about the affect on late edition hops for flavor? Many styles call for hop additions with 10 min or 5 min left on the boil time, even at flame out.
 
What about the affect on late edition hops for flavor? Many styles call for hop additions with 10 min or 5 min left on the boil time, even at flame out.

that's for aroma and flavor NOT for bitterness. Not much AAUs are isomerized in that time. Those are added, as our many spices so late so their volitile oils that impart flavor and aroma are not boiled off.
 
that's for aroma and flavor NOT for bitterness. Not much AAUs are isomerized in that time. Those are added, as our many spices so late so their volitile oils that impart flavor and aroma are not boiled off.
Yes, I had that thought about the time that hit the Submit Reply button. So I guess my real question is, Is there a benefit to the aroma to leave the hops in as you transfer to the primary?
 
The problem with that train of thought is that you have to boil hops to extract the bittering acids, and after I think it's 30 minutes you destroy most of the flavor of the hops too.
.

If that is true, then why do late addition hops provide IBUs? Why do recipes call for different hops at 60minutes? If the flavor is gone, why not always use the same bittering hop, or whatever is cheapest? How can a beer be made with only late addition hops if they provide no bitterness?

Eric
 
If that is true, then why do late addition hops provide IBUs?

Really late addition hops don't add any IBU, and by "really late" I mean 0min and dry hopping. Of course one would argue that a 0min hop addition will add a tiny bit of bittering because the wort is not cooled below the point where the AA can be isomerized fast enough to prevent it. It's so minuscule that it's not worth calculating toward bittering unless of course it takes you a while to chill your wort. That's why no-chill brewing uses less hops, you get more bittering out of late addition hops because your wort stays hotter for longer, hence more isomerization and more bitterness.

Why do recipes call for different hops at 60minutes?

Most recipes call for different hops because they use a higher AA hop for bittering because it's cheaper to bitter with 1oz 10%AA hop than 2oz 5%AA hops. Most will use "compatibly flavored" hops for bittering because why muddy the waters if you don't have to. If all you had on hand was a contrasting hop for bittering, I'd use it, but I haven't had the need. Maybe someday I'll brew 2 identical beers accept for the bittering hop and see what, if any, difference there is.

How can a beer be made with only late addition hops if they provide no bitterness?

It's not that they don't provide any bitterness at all, they just provide less. If you only late addition hop, say 20min-0min every 5, you will use twice or more the hops to achieve the same bitterness.

I'd recommend BeerSmith or similar and really start playing around with some recipes from the board and see how each hop addition changes the IBU

Here's a copy of hop additions in BeerSmith for comparison on time and bitterness each is contributing:

1.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 12.7 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (20 min) Hops 7.7 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (15 min) Hops 6.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (5 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
 
Really late addition hops don't add any IBU, and by "really late" I mean 0min and dry hopping. Of course one would argue that a 0min hop addition will add a tiny bit of bittering because the wort is not cooled below the point where the AA can be isomerized fast enough to prevent it. It's so minuscule that it's not worth calculating toward bittering unless of course it takes you a while to chill your wort. That's why no-chill brewing uses less hops, you get more bittering out of late addition hops because your wort stays hotter for longer, hence more isomerization and more bitterness.

I was referring mostly to additions later than 20 minutes. You are correct, none of the equations will produce a bittering effect from flameout or dry hopping.

Most recipes call for different hops because they use a higher AA hop for bittering because it's cheaper to bitter with 1oz 10%AA hop than 2oz 5%AA hops. Most will use "compatibly flavored" hops for bittering because why muddy the waters if you don't have to. If all you had on hand was a contrasting hop for bittering, I'd use it, but I haven't had the need. Maybe someday I'll brew 2 identical beers accept for the bittering hop and see what, if any, difference there is.

Using compatible hops to change the hop bill in a recipe is exactly why I brought that up. If all hops at 60min provided no flavor at all, then any hop variety would do, right?

I agree that using a contrasting hop would be interesting. I think this is part of the draw to experiment with hoppy belgian-style beers.

It's not that they don't provide any bitterness at all, they just provide less. If you only late addition hop, say 20min-0min every 5, you will use twice or more the hops to achieve the same bitterness.

Someone had said that hops need to be boiled for 30 minutes to provide any bitterness and at those hops provided no flavor. I just wanted to start a discussion about it to see that person's viewpoint, because I have heard and read conflicting information.

I'd recommend BeerSmith or similar and really start playing around with some recipes from the board and see how each hop addition changes the IBU

I play around with that a lot. The last beer I made was about 50/50 from 60 minute IBUs and 15/10/5/1 IBUs to play with the concept. I like how it turned out, but that is merely my biased opinion. :tank:

Eric
 
Haha, guess those where leading questions huh? Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on this.

As far as the 30 min deal, I think a 30 min addition is pontless. You really don't get much, if any, flavor and aroma and have not given it enough time to extract all potential bitterness.

I don't think he meant that you need to boil for 30 min to get any bitterness, just that after 30 min, the flavor and aroma profile is destroyed. That's how I read it anyway.
 
Haha, guess those where leading questions huh?


Leading questions? Perhaps. :D

I just wanted to start a discussion on something I thought was pertinent to the discussion.

Have you seen the recipe for Jamil's Evil Twin? I have never tried it, but I want to. I have heard nothing but good reviews. Anyway, all the hops are late addition, which makes it an interesting recipe...to me at least. It got me started on researching this topic more and more.

Ingredients for 6 U.S. gallons (23 liters)

Target Original Gravity: 1.066 (16.21 Plato)

Approximate Final Gravity: 1.016 (4.08 Plato)

Brewhouse Efficiency: 70%

Anticipated SRM: 17

Anticipated IBU: 23.8

Anticipated ABV: 6.66%

Wort Boil Time: 90 minutes

12 lb (5.44 kg) British Pale Malt 3L

1 lb (0.45 kg) Crystal 40L

1 lb (0.45 kg) Munich Malt 8L

0.50 lb (0.22 kg) Victory Malt 25L

0.50 lb (0.22 kg) Crystal 120L

0.25 lb (0.11 kg) Pale Chocolate Malt 200L

0.5 oz. (14 g) Centennial pellet hops, 10% alpha acid (20 min.) (6.4 IBU)

0.5 oz. (14 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (20 min.) (4.5 IBU)

1 oz. (28 g) Centennial pellet hops, 10% alpha acid (10 min.) (7.6 IBU)

1 oz. (28 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (10 min.) (5.3 IBU)

1 oz. (28 g) Centennial pellet hops, 10% alpha acid (0 min.) (0 IBU)

1 oz. (28 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (0 min.) (0 IBU)

Extract with specialty grains option: Using liquid malt extract, replace English Pale Malt with 8.75 lbs (3.97 kg) pale malt extract. Replace the Munich malt with 0.75 lbs. (0.34 kg) Munich malt extract. Using dry malt extract, replace English Pale Malt with 7 lbs (3.17 kg) pale malt extract. Replace the Munich malt with 0.50 lbs. (0.22 kg) Munich malt extract.

Yeast: A clean neutral yeast that attenuates in the mid-seventy percent range is perfect. White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 American Ale are excellent choices. A good dry yeast option is Fermentis Safale US-56. Ferment at 68F (20 C).

Directions: Single infusion mash at 154F (68C) using a ratio of 1.3 quarts water to 1 pound of grain. While you could go with a shorter boil, the 90 minute boil enhances the blood-red color. It also adds a touch more melanoidin and caramel notes. Cool the wort quickly after the last hop addition to retain as much hop aroma as possible. Optionally, dry hop with more Centennial or Amarillo if you’re a real hop monster. Carbonate to no more than 2 volumes and serve at 45 to 55 F (7.2 to 12.8 C).
 
I too am a newb and did that with my second batch - Vanilla Porter. I just got a screen for my funnel to help stop me from the next debacle. As with my beer, we cheated the system with a nylon steeping bag on the siphoning step. Limited the debris...what we sampled was good...soon to know how the carbonated/bottled beer tastes. It should be ready in a week or two. Good luck with future brews!! As long as we are enjoying the hobby, guys like us need to enjoy our mistakes.
 
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