schneemann
Well-Known Member
Awesome. Thanks for the response. I def. planned on making a starter.
Yeast Washing Illustrated
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Awesome. Thanks for the response. I def. planned on making a starter.
planenut
Well-Known Member
If the primary was crash chilled for 4 or so days, would the yeast still be viable for washing?
Any special techniques for warming to room temperature or the pint jars are from the refrigerator anyway and cool is better?
Any special techniques for warming to room temperature or the pint jars are from the refrigerator anyway and cool is better?
scottlindner
Well-Known Member
I have a question. In the final product, is the yeast settled on the bottom, or suspended on the top in the clear thinned out beer?
portlandbeergeek
Well-Known Member
The yeast is on top of the bottom later. The top layer is "beer" (un-useable), it should be poured off. That leaves a thick layer of trub and hops with the yeast lying on top of that. I usually just use the whole bottom layer, as it will settle out with the rest of the trub in primary.
Is washing lager yeast any different than washing ale yeast?
Is washing lager yeast any different than washing ale yeast?
scottlindner
Well-Known Member
So if I wait a long time for it all to settle out the, top is just beer and I can dump that. Then I could wash again but this time I wait until 20 minutes and dump the top portion and discard the bottom which is trub. Then when I let this second wash settle for a long period, I poor off the top stuff, and have only yeast at the bottom with very little trub, right?
Scott
Scott
illnastyimpreza
Well-Known Member
ok so once I get it into the masson jar, its ready to use in my next batch ??? thats it ?? I just pitch it in ontop of the beer like normal ?
Well, you'd want to make a starter. Especially if the yeast has been saved for a while.
(Of course, I feel that you should almost always make a starter with liquid yeast, especially White Labs vials)
illnastyimpreza
Well-Known Member
how do you make a "starter" ? do you just add a little fresh yeast to your mason jar ?
bearkluttz
Well-Known Member
Step 1. Locate the search function
Step 2. Search for yeast starter
Step 3. Remember step 1. (its a good one)
illnastyimpreza
Well-Known Member
saw that one coming
portlandbeergeek
Well-Known Member
is there any difference between washing ale and lager yeasts?
LOL, yeah you pop a fly like that and... LOL. Glad you are already getting into yeast. Most home brewers shy away and buy theirs every time. I am really loving washing and banking for further use.
illnastyimpreza
Well-Known Member
LOL, yeah you pop a fly like that and... LOL. Glad you are already getting into yeast. Most home brewers shy away and buy theirs every time. I am really loving washing and banking for further use.
hey I'm all about saving money. Anything I can reuse I'm all for :rockin:
Some of these yeasts can get friggin expensive too !
now what I"m wondering is, if I had a conical would I just use the drained out trub to add water too ?
dp69_2001
Well-Known Member
Drain from valve on bottom into sanitized container... pour in jars of water wait... pour... wait... pour... cap.. label... refrigerate...I want a conical...
I would imagine it's exactly the same. But I'm kinda a noob... I want a way to lager...
Washing is so easy! Just sanitize well. Sterilize what you can... and use your best judgment... I've found that when I'm using the yeast within the next few days... maybe week, I just use the large jar... pour, mix, wait, pour, cap refrigerate (especially if you are making the same beer, or style).... I have reused WLP001 about 50 times though... been using the same strain I purchased a vial of early this summer... I'm back to 2 of the original jars. (the last one started to develop a sour flavor on about the 7th batch and the other I gave to a friend.) This procedure has endless possibilities...
illnastyimpreza
Well-Known Member
^ holly crap you used the same yeast over 50 times ??? wow
if you subtract the cost of a decently expensive yeast from a batch, you can brew pretty much any 5 gallon batch AG for like 10 bucks lol
if you subtract the cost of a decently expensive yeast from a batch, you can brew pretty much any 5 gallon batch AG for like 10 bucks lol
mustangj looks like your yeast and trub is not separated out.
add some pre-boiled, cooled water. swirl it around and wait. the extra water will help it separate out. it will form three nice layers. crap (trub) on the bottom, white yeast, and beer on the top. discard beer, pour yeast to another container (you will get some trub still), and discard trub. Repeat the process with the yeast you poured out, etc.
add some pre-boiled, cooled water. swirl it around and wait. the extra water will help it separate out. it will form three nice layers. crap (trub) on the bottom, white yeast, and beer on the top. discard beer, pour yeast to another container (you will get some trub still), and discard trub. Repeat the process with the yeast you poured out, etc.
Cool thanks..I post pics after.
Quick question about the size of starter used with the washed yeast. Taking Bernie's pics as an example of the amount of yeast in the bottom of the jar, how large of a starter is needed when it's made 2 weeks after harvest as opposed to 2 months or more after harvest. I assume yeast viability drops each week so I'm wondering what size of starter is needed to compensate for reduced viability in aging yeast.
That's what I'm talking about.
dp69_2001
Well-Known Member
I exaggerate a lot. But realistically. I used the original vial made a batch. Harvested 5 jars, 4 small ones then a larger quart one. I used the yeast in the larger jar to make about 5 more batches. Gave one smaller jar to my friend. Then used the other jar to make 7 batches. All batches of course... you could harvest more yeast from. So, If you never wanted to use any other strain besides WLP001 or whatever. You could live the rest of your life without buying yeast... As long as you kept washing, and kept the yeast rotated so that it stays viable. I'd imagine you'd want to use it within a year.
climateboy
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I've only been able to find the large ball jars, not the smaller mason jars. What's the best way to modify this technique for only larger containers?
dontman
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I've washed a couple batches now. This technique is really cool. At first when I looked at the pictures that were shown I didn't really get it. I wondered how this constituted "washing" yeast, but when I did it it became perfectly clear. You can see the bad stuff that is separated from the good yeast and how this simple process works.
GroovePuppy
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OK, I read all the way through the thread and there's some contradictory information. I see some pics where the sediment fills half the jars and folks saying "that's a ton of yeast" and other folks saying the yeast is a thin layer on top of the sediment. I ended up with jars that look like the majority, with a quarter inch or so of sediment. The sediment I have is very uniform in color and there is no visible layer on the top of it.
I changed the process slightly (since I could only buy bigger jars by the dozen). I boiled up 12 pint jars. I poured the water on the primary yeast cake and collected 8 jars, leaving them about 30 minutes or so while I bottled my beer. I then transferred the cloudy fluid minus the trub to 7 jars (by reusing 3 of the first jars). The sediment settled in the fridge in <12 hours and the results look really nice. A clear "tea" of beer on top and a super-clean 1/4" layer of creamy sediment on the bottom.
Do I have yeast or clean trub?
Oh yeah, anyone have a definitive answer on how many generations is a good idea?
I changed the process slightly (since I could only buy bigger jars by the dozen). I boiled up 12 pint jars. I poured the water on the primary yeast cake and collected 8 jars, leaving them about 30 minutes or so while I bottled my beer. I then transferred the cloudy fluid minus the trub to 7 jars (by reusing 3 of the first jars). The sediment settled in the fridge in <12 hours and the results look really nice. A clear "tea" of beer on top and a super-clean 1/4" layer of creamy sediment on the bottom.
Do I have yeast or clean trub?
Oh yeah, anyone have a definitive answer on how many generations is a good idea?
dontman
Well-Known Member
I am confused. You say pint jars. Those are the small jars. The larger jars are quart size. If you use 12 that is a lot of water (like two gallons of liquid in the fermenter!) It will rinse the yeast well but you would end up with only a quarter inch of yeast per jar. When I rinse I use a half gallon jar and then 3 pint jars. When I am done my three pint jars are half full of very clean yeast and the rest full with the clear liquid.
Aside from that sounds like you end with yeast so you are good to go there.
As far as generations go. I wonder that myself. Especially since I have a couple big belgians in primary that I want to harvest and I hear people say that big beers can exhaust yeast.
dp69_2001
Well-Known Member
Okay. Before you wash. On the bottom of the fermenting vessel you usually find that the bottom is full of trub that settled out first. The middle layer is full of healthy yeast that flocked when the beer fermented out. and the top is mostly poorly flocking cells, dead yeast and other ****. When you wash you shake up all of this and the trub and dead **** falls to the bottom of the bucket/carboy. Then you repeat this in the second vessel. By the time you reach the third vessel most of the dead yeast and trub material will have been left in the bottom of the fermenter and the larger mason jar or whatever. So that the material you see in the bottom of these jars should be primarily composed of healthy living yeast.
If you followed this process you will have healthy yeast in your jars. There undoubtably will be some trub material sitting in there. But, washing will take most of this out.
The white labs website recommends using it for a maximum of 8 generations. But, as I've stated before. 8 generations is almost endless since you can harvest yeast from any of these generations also. I'd imagine that 8 is just kind of a safety barrier as you might start to get some wild yeasts and other random beasts living in your yeast culture.
Also, pint jars are great but I found half pints at wal-mart relatively cheap. I use those and a large mouth quart mason jar.
P.S. Welcome to the wonderful world of washing yeast and saving an anus load of money.
Up the size of your first container. I use a 1 gallon jug, and go from there.
Mutilated1
Beer Drenched Executioner
Check earlier in the year when people are into canning stuff from their garden. You can find them at WalMart or the grocery store, even the Family Dollar or Dollar General type store, but they won't stock them in the fall or winter - need to check in spring and summer.
bmckee56
Well-Known Member
Excellent thread with much information. I will save this and use it soon. Seems I always find information on the things I am most interested in only a few days after I develope the interest. This thread is such a find.
Edit: Would sealing the final container using a foodsaver, hurt or hinder the yeast? Since they will be dormaint in the refrigerator, I assume the lack of air in the jar could not hurt. Is this correct?
Salute!
Edit: Would sealing the final container using a foodsaver, hurt or hinder the yeast? Since they will be dormaint in the refrigerator, I assume the lack of air in the jar could not hurt. Is this correct?
Salute!
GroovePuppy
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Thanks for the inputs but what's at the bottom of my jar is still unclear (pardon the pun). Revvy posted his picture showing most of the bottom layer as trub and everyone agreed. Then a bunch of other people post that it's all yeast. Does Revvy's picture relate to the first jar before decanting into the final jars and so still have trub?
Another question, on reading "How to Brew" the number of active yeast cells is important at pitching. If I have a pint jar with a quarter inch of yeast is there a rough estimate of how many cells that is?
Another question, on reading "How to Brew" the number of active yeast cells is important at pitching. If I have a pint jar with a quarter inch of yeast is there a rough estimate of how many cells that is?
I don't know if it would hurt, but I don't think it is a necessary step time wise.
Here's some guy's pic from a new thread...
The creamy band below the liguid is the yeast....it is sitting on top of the trub..
Think about it this way...the mechanics of it...You pour water into a mess of beer, trub and yeast, then you shake it up. The heaviest stuff settles first...that's the trub...The yeast an water is still mingled for a bit, until it too settles out...and it falls on top of the trub...
dontman
Well-Known Member
There may well be a way to estimate this but books and articles I have read have said that basically you should use 1/2 - 1 cup of slurry per 5 gal batch depending on the OG. Slurry is the 1/4 inch of stuff to which you refer. This means that you would want anywhere from 1/4 quarter to a half of a pint size jar.
If you only have 1/4 inch in each jar you could either use a bunch of jars to pitch or you can use one to make a starter.
bmckee56
Well-Known Member
I believe the original poster of this thread stated that you use the jar to make a starter. I may be wrong, but it seems likely that this would be the best way to get it going.
Salute!
dontman
Well-Known Member
I believe the original poster of this thread stated that you use the jar to make a starter. I may be wrong, but it seems likely that this would be the best way to get it going.
Salute!
Maybe but if you have enough yeast cells already in the slurry then you should not endeavor to multiply the quantity of yeast using a starter or you risk overpitching. My pint jars are half full of slurry. This means I have a full cup of slurry to start. If I pitched that into a starter I would end up WAY overpitching most beers except for the really big ones.
OP
OP
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
I believe the original poster of this thread stated that you use the jar to make a starter. I may be wrong, but it seems likely that this would be the best way to get it going.
Salute!
Yep. Make a starter. You'll be glad you did.
dontman
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. It is useful. From what I saw there it says you would use 87 ml of slurry to pitch in a 1.048 5 gallon batch. This is around 3 oz.
This makes my point for me. If I already have 5 oz of slurry in my container I definitely would not want to do a starter. I am already overpitching a bit and would be grossly overpitching with a starter.
GroovePuppy
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I believe the original poster of this thread stated that you use the jar to make a starter. I may be wrong, but it seems likely that this would be the best way to get it going.
Salute!
See that's my point. My jars aren't so different from the OP and he's not suggesting pitching a number of jars. John Palmer outlines the same process but doesn't say anything about volume.
How to Brew - By John Palmer - Support Your Local Micro
The 1/4" volume in the bottom of my jars doesn't seem hugely different from the overall volume of a smack pack prior to smacking and it doesn't have the yeast nutrient pouch. It just seems that with the discussions of under- and over-pitching and then of reusing harvested yeast someone would have a rough idea what a 1/4" in the bottom of a pint jar would equate to.
One more point of reference is that the volume in the bottom of my jars is way more than a vial of dry yeast. Since my yeast is all settled down it has to be at least in the same density ball park. I'd bet if I dried out one of the jars there's more yeast than a dry yeast vial. But then I am a noob!
BTW Revvy, your pic didn't come through.
Edit: The Mr Malty link suggests for 5gallons of 1.058SG wort I need ~ 50mls of dense yeast slurry (which is what I think I have). It doesn't include a starter option though for slurry.
Edit#2: Would you believe the very people trying to sell you the yeast in the first place are willing to tell you what you need to know about yeast harvesting and population.
"Generally 40-60% yeast solids will correlate to 1.2 billion cells per ml."
http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm
So I just need to figure how many mls I have in each jar and calculate starters from there. I'll repost when I get some numbers for discussion.
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