"muted" hop presence in many of my beers

I've got about 15 or so brews under my belt, and have done a couple hoppier versions, including a recent IPA.

One thing I've noticed is a stark difference between my hoppy beers and some of the commercial IPAs, is that my beers have a muted or flat hop presence. Not sure if they're grassy or not, but they definitely seem muted. I don't dry hop and I'm presuming this is why... Most aroma hop additions happen at five minutes before end of boil.

Just wanted to present this to get a bead on whether this is due to boiling off volatile aromatic compounds and I should consider a hop stand or dy hopping?

try dry hopping, it's lovely.

You'll get better aroma from a hop stand at the end and or dry hopping.

Also the chloride to sulfate ratio of your water makes a difference.

You could also try hop bursting.

I had the same issues until I started messing with my water chemistry. It made a huge difference.

Also, dry hopping is a must if you want a nice sharp hop aroma. I think that adds to the perception of hoppiness.

What kind of water are you using? If its a softer water, the hops tend to be muted. If you have harder water, the hops pop more. Try adding a few grams of gypsum to your mash or boil next time.

There could be a couple of things that you can try. One is simply "more hops, more later". What I mean is to add more hops at 15, 10, 5, and 0 and of course dryhopping. I think dryhopping is great, but I don't think it will fix a muted hops favor as much as the late boil additions.

Another thing that makes a difference is water chemistry. Do you know the make up of your water? I found that when using RO water adding a bit of gypsum makes the hops "pop".

Also, consider trying first wort hopping. Adding hops right when you kill the flame instead of or in addition to the 5-min mark also helps.

But first thing I'd try, as others have said, is keep everything the same but try dry hopping, and see what that does for you.

Since you haven't posted a recipe for what you actually brewed, we can't say if you have enough late additions hops. If you want a hoppy brew, try this recipe, Pliny the Elder clone. If it doesn't seem hoppy enough for you, your water is likely the culprit. Add some gypsum as me and Yooper suggested earlier.

There could be a couple of things that you can try. One is simply "more hops, more later". What I mean is to add more hops at 15, 10, 5, and 0 and of course dryhopping. I think dryhopping is great, but I don't think it will fix a muted hops favor as much as the late boil additions.

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I do this for all my IPA's ...... really brings out the flavor and aroma.

Thanks for the input, folks. I did a recipe recently that Sggested adding a bit of gypsum to it, which I did-but it's still conditioning. I'm going to check out to see if there are any water chemistry 'stickies' here, because that's always been in the back of my head...ordinary tap water is all I've ever used, and our water isn't well known for being awesome...

Thx again

Okay, so I went out and found a water report from the city of Toledo. After reading the chapter on John Palmer's site, it seems like my report doesn't tell me enough about my water. I could be wrong,but I'd say maybe an independent look at it might be needed.

http://ci.toledo.oh.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=-gf-QstVa7E=&tabid=376&mid=936

I'm pretty sure my water is hard...given the calcium deposits on my shower head any further input would be appreciated.

I didn't see earlier that you were from Toledo. Whenever I've had the tap water there, it didn't seem soft to me. Since water chem seems ok for
IPAs, I'd go with the hop additions recommended above. Hopefully that'll clear up any issues you have.

If you are interested with learning more about water chemistry, check out The Brewing Network's Water Shows: http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Brew-Strong/search/water. They give a really good look at what you can do to adjust your water for various styles. Good luck!

Sorry to keep blowing up this thread, but have you tried any beers from the Maumee Bay Brew Pub? I'll bet they're also brewing with Toledo city water. If you like their IPA, you could ask them if they do anything to their water (carbon filter, use gypsum or other water additions, just use straight city water, etc.) and ask if they'd share their hopping additions with you. You can tell them that you've been having issues with a muted hop presence and really like theirs and are wondering how you could improve your beer. Pro brewers typically always like positive feedback and most like to give helpful advice if asked. You could also bring one of your beers and maybe the brewer will try it and give you some advice based on the sample they try.

barrooze said:

Sorry to keep blowing up this thread, but have you tried any beers from the Maumee Bay Brew Pub? I'll bet they're also brewing with Toledo city water. If you like their IPA, you could ask them if they do anything to their water (carbon filter, use gypsum or other water additions, just use straight city water, etc.) and ask if they'd share their hopping additions with you.

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That is friggin genius, actually.

I know that guy is pretty approachable. I also, come to think of it, know the guys at Sabco, who make the Brew Magic systems--they're also in Toledo.

I kinda feel stupid for not asking this myself.

Jakeintoledo said:

One thing I've noticed is a stark difference between my hoppy beers and some of the commercial IPAs, is that my beers have a muted or flat hop presence. Not sure if they're grassy or not, but they definitely seem muted. I don't dry hop and I'm presuming this is why... Most aroma hop additions happen at five minutes before end of boil.

Just wanted to present this to get a bead on whether this is due to boiling off volatile aromatic compounds and I should consider a hop stand or dy hopping?

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If the hop flavour is muted and you aren't running a partial boil, then I would take a look at your water chemistry. The flavour of my first few IPAs were muted, then I took a look at my reservoir water reports - all of the relevant brewing ions were below 3ppm. I amended my water with 6g of CaSO4 for a 6 gallon batch, and the hop flavour "popped" just like the commercial brews.

I dry hop the $@&% out of my IPAs. 2-3 oz minimum.