Furious clone - Secondary fermenter question

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Adaman05

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Hi folks, Sunday the 25th, a buddy and I brewed the NB Furious clone recipe (extract), found here:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/Furious_Pro_Surly.pdf

I've got about 6 batches under my belt, so I wanted to throw a question out to you all. The instructions say to ferment in primary for 1-2 weeks, then secondary 1-2 weeks (no dry hops), then dry hop 1-2 weeks. I know these are general guidelines, as you are supposed to wait until you reach FG before transferring. Our OG came up at 1.047, and were stumped why it was so low. We aerated it very well after topping off to 5 gallons in the carboy, but we did take the sample from the top, so that may be the cause.

Based on the holidays coming up, we wanted to be bottling on Saturday, December 22nd before we head out of town. Finally, to the question:

If I follow the instructions, then after two weeks in the primary, we'll transfer to the secondary for one week (no hops), then add dry hops (8.5 oz!!!) for another week. That is option 1.

Option 2:

Leave in primary for an additional week (3 total), transfer to secondary and dry hop for 1 week before bottling, skipping the conditioning phase in the secondary before dry hopping.

Option 3:

Leave in primary for 2.5 weeks total, transfer to secondary and dry hop for 10 days before bottling, skipping the conditioning phase in the secondary before dry hopping.

Basically, I'm just wondering if that "conditioning" stage in the secondary is necessary before adding the dry hops. Also wondering about 7 versus 10 days of dry hops. Again...kind of constrained by the holiday schedule.
 
Personally I dry hop in a secondary but it seems a bunch of people dry hop in primary. If your going to secondary I would let fermentation finish and make sure it is done before transferring to secondary. Do this by checking gravity readings three days apart until it's stable. Once stable transfer to secondary and dry hop for 7-14 days or whatever was suggested. After dry hopping bottle and wait three Weeks at 70 degrees then try and enjoy.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Yooper, when you've made this recipe, how did you dry hop? I'm planning on using one or two muslin bags in a bucket for ease of removal. Wondering if I need to weigh them down with a couple sanitized spoons or just put the bag(s) in as is.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Yooper, when you've made this recipe, how did you dry hop? I'm planning on using one or two muslin bags in a bucket for ease of removal. Wondering if I need to weigh them down with a couple sanitized spoons or just put the bag(s) in as is.

I never use bags, but if I did I wouldn't weigh it down. so it's really just personal preference!

If you're racking to a clearing vessel ("secondary"), a bucket is a bad choice. Way too much headspace, and not a good choice for a clearing vessel. But adding bags to a carboy is a pain.

if you wish to only add hops to a bucket, add them to the primary fermenter, after fermentation has ended and the beer is clearing.
 
Hmm, a lot of the reviews of this beer said to use a bucket because of the ridiculous amount of dry hops. I do have a 5 gallon carboy available. I'd really prefer to use bags, as opposed to dumping them in and having to cold crash for a few days, simply because of the holiday timing. Would dividing the 8.5 oz of hops between 3 muslin bags be easy enough to remove after racking to the bottling bucket?

Or, maybe I should just throw in the hops freely and rack around it. Guessing I'd probably lose a gallon of liquid.
 
Hmm, a lot of the reviews of this beer said to use a bucket because of the ridiculous amount of dry hops. I do have a 5 gallon carboy available. I'd really prefer to use bags, as opposed to dumping them in and having to cold crash for a few days, simply because of the holiday timing. Would dividing the 8.5 oz of hops between 3 muslin bags be easy enough to remove after racking to the bottling bucket?

Or, maybe I should just throw in the hops freely and rack around it. Guessing I'd probably lose a gallon of liquid.

Then go ahead and use a bucket. But then why rack? Can't you just add them to the bucket you're already using? I don't quite understand, I guess.

If you're not proficient with racking, using bags in a bucket can make sense.
 
I would dry hop for 10 days. You paid for all of those hops, might as well maximize the aroma. So option 3 makes the most sense to me, and you will get clearer beer using a secondary from all the yeast drop post racking.

If you didn't want to secondary in glass, then I would dry hop in primary and then go straight to bottling bucket after a 3 day cold crash (maybe with gelatin also). I have a Bells 2H clone on that path right now. I started the 10 day dry hop just as the beer was completing the last bit of fermentation. I agree with Yooper, no need to go to a new bucket just to dry hop. The only concern with dry hopping in primary is to make sure its started after active fermentation has wrapped up (so your aroma isn't carried out of the airlock).
 
Awesome thanks. My primary is glass FYI. Looks like I will dry hop ten days then cold crash in glass secondary. Would a four or five day cold crash work? Don't want any grassy flavors from hops being on too long, but three days might not work with the holidays.
 
I don't think a cold crash is needed with option 3. You will drop out 90% of the yeast from racking to secondary, most within the first 8 hours.

Cold crash only if you are dry hopping in primary and going straight to bottle or keg. But 4 or 5 days would not hurt anything. The grassy flavors take really long to develop in cold beer, but generally 12-20 days would be the tipping point for beer at 60F +. I dry hop in a chilled keg for the 4-5 weeks it takes to kick and have no off flavors. If you are cold crashing for 4 or 5 days, go 8 or 9 days dry hop in warm beer.
 
I understand the yeast should be cleared up but I was worried about racking around the 8.5 oz of hops. Will they be sunk after ten days?
 
I was under the impression you were using a fine "hop bag" (recommended) or at least the muslin bags which won't do as good of job. Are the dry hops pellets or whole leaf? If whole leaf the muslin bags will work fine. If pellet, only the fine mesh bag will work to contain.

If you don't use a bag, just watch your racking. Try to keep below the surface hops and above the submerged ones. No big deal there. You will lose some beer to hop absorption which is going to be case with 8.5 oz of dry hop regardless of approach.
 
Thanks. I was going to use a hop bag when I was planning on dry hopping in a bucket, but I was told there was too much head space. So I decided to switch to a glass carboy for secondary, and I can't imagine dry hopping with 8.5 oz in a couple of bags and getting them out. That's why I was asking about a cold crash. Looks like I'll just have to be careful with racking! Thanks!
 
I was under the impression you were using a fine "hop bag" (recommended) or at least the muslin bags which won't do as good of job. Are the dry hops pellets or whole leaf? If whole leaf the muslin bags will work fine. If pellet, only the fine mesh bag will work to contain.

If you don't use a bag, just watch your racking. Try to keep below the surface hops and above the submerged ones. No big deal there. You will lose some beer to hop absorption which is going to be case with 8.5 oz of dry hop regardless of approach.

Oh, and pellet hops.
 
Good luck, let us know how it turns out. I might order this kit (or the one from Midwest) within the next week. I love me some Surly!
 
I made the Midwest ferocious kit and it tasted great... But not the same as Furious.
 
Bottled today. It tastes amazing! Actually tastes just like Furious, without the carbonation. Looks a bit darker than the real thing, but that's not a big deal. Ended up throwing the hops right in the secondary instead of using a bag. 99% of the hops were on the bottom when I racked into the bottling bucket, so that turned out to be pretty easy. I ended up losing a lot of liquid due to hop aborption. Only ended up with 21 bottles (22 oz), which ends up being about 3.6 gallons. Due to the lower yield, we primed with 2/3 cup dextrose instead of the standard (3/4 cup or 5 oz). We couldn't find his scale to weigh it. Hopefully the carbonation turns out okay... Does anybody think I'll end up with bottle bombs using 2/3 cup dextrose with only about 3.6 gallons of beer? Should I move to a cooler temperature to slow down carbonation?
 
No bottle bombs. I sometimes use a heaping cup for wheat beers for 5 gallons.

Moving to cooler location would not help anyway unless you were going to stop it in sub 50 temps at some point.
 
Awesome, glad to hear I won't get bombs. Looks like I'll just keep them where they're at for a few weeks. It's going to be hard to resist the urge to try one prematurely! My buddy and I were so encouraged after sampling this last time that we're getting together on Saturday to brew another batch. Next up is Fullers London Porter clone!
 
My buddy and I had an extra bottle when we split our batch, so we decided to try it last night after two weeks in the bottle. Tastes great! Back to back to Furious, the bitterness and hop flavor is spot on, though the Furious has more malt backbone. I only expect my beer to get better with age. Pretty cloudy too due to the massive amount of dry hops, but I also expect time in the fridge to clear this up some. While not a bottle bomb, it IS very carbonated however. Pouring slowly into my glass, it produced so much foam that it was about 40 percent liquid to 60 percent foam. It took a while until was able to drink. Is there anything I can do at this point? Would uncapping them to let out CO2 and then recapping help? I currently don't mind waiting for all the foam to dissipate, but I plan on giving away a few bottles and I wan't them to be properly carbonated.
 
Awesome, thanks. My primary is a glass carboy, FYI. So a ten day dry hop with a 3 day cold crash could work. Could I cold crash for four days as well, which may be easier on our schedule. Just don't want grassy flavors from the hops.
 
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