I don't waste my time with washing dry yeast, but at the same time if you're brewing a beer that uses a different strain that you can only get in liquid format it's worth it. Plus when you make your starter you should be able to tell if your yeast has issues.
Yeast Washing Illustrated
- Thread starter Bernie Brewer
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I don't waste my time with washing dry yeast, but at the same time if you're brewing a beer that uses a different strain that you can only get in liquid format it's worth it. Plus when you make your starter you should be able to tell if your yeast has issues.
SnowBird
Active Member
Very good write up, Thanks!
Would a sanitized plastic 1 gallon water jug work for the intermediate vessel? (The bigger jar in the OP.) I have small mason jars to use, but not a big enough glass container to let it settle out in.
HollisBT
Well-Known Member
Fordzilla said:
You don't have any growlers?
Personally, I wouldn't use anything that I couldn't also ferment in...
I don't have any growlers and I'd like to try washing my yeast tomorrow when I transfer. I guess I could go get one and get hammered tonight.
The yeast should only be in the jug for about 30 minutes anyway, so I think i should be OK after I wash and sanitize it.
jwalker1140
Well-Known Member
Admittedly, I'm not one to wear a belt and suspenders, but using a water jug for the intermediate vessel wouldn't concern me at all. As long as it's in good condition, I say clean it, sanitize it and get washing!
45_70sharps
Well-Known Member
OK, I've been wanting to learn a bit about yeast washing and I found this thread. Lots of good stuff here.
Prior to reading this I was planning on two things.
First, I've got a batch in the bucket right now. I was going to let it sit there till just before I start my next batch, then I was going to get a yeast harvest from the bottom of the primary to make a starter for the batch that I will start within a week. I figure by making a starter I'll know what I've got.
Next, I had thought about when I open my next package of yeast to make a starter for another beer, I would simply give it some time and make a bigger starter like say... a gallon jug and make a 3/4 gallon starter. If I time it right I should have a half gallon that is very viable. I should be able to use this for a starter in one batch, then put the rest either into another bigger starter or boil up some mason jars and put it in the fridge shouldn't I?
Pretty much doing the same idea but rather than taking it from the bottom of your latest batch of beer you are using mini batches and when you get ready to brew again you simply make a large starter whenever you need to stock up again.
Less stuff going into the yeast food should equate to less chances of something you don't want getting into the yeast culture I would think.
Prior to reading this I was planning on two things.
First, I've got a batch in the bucket right now. I was going to let it sit there till just before I start my next batch, then I was going to get a yeast harvest from the bottom of the primary to make a starter for the batch that I will start within a week. I figure by making a starter I'll know what I've got.
Next, I had thought about when I open my next package of yeast to make a starter for another beer, I would simply give it some time and make a bigger starter like say... a gallon jug and make a 3/4 gallon starter. If I time it right I should have a half gallon that is very viable. I should be able to use this for a starter in one batch, then put the rest either into another bigger starter or boil up some mason jars and put it in the fridge shouldn't I?
Pretty much doing the same idea but rather than taking it from the bottom of your latest batch of beer you are using mini batches and when you get ready to brew again you simply make a large starter whenever you need to stock up again.
Less stuff going into the yeast food should equate to less chances of something you don't want getting into the yeast culture I would think.
jwalker1140
Well-Known Member
If you're going to reuse within a week or so, I'd strongly urge you to read the first post in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/why-not-pitch-your-yeast-cake-166221/
This technique has given me my best ferments. I use Bernie Brewer's washing technique when I need to store my yeast for more than a week, otherwise I'll just harvest 1c of unwashed yeast slurry and throw it in the fridge for a few days until I need it.
Perhaps, particularly if your sanitation isn't really dialed in. But my experience has been that yeast that has a couple generations under its belt (both 1c of unwashed slurry and washed yeast w/ starter) actually performs better than a new culture. YMMV.
45_70sharps
Well-Known Member
I'm not so worried about my sanitation, more just thinking that the more time it spends in the world, the more chance there is of picking up something.
The fact that yeast with a couple generations of use under it' belt being better though is very good information. Exactly the type of thing that I hope to pick up on here.
I'm going to try a yeast wash. I'll make a starter when I go to use it and if I don't see the life that I expect I'll have a pack of yeast on hand to use.
My first attempt at yeast washing. Before adding water, I harvested 1 cup to pitch on Saturday. I clearly didn't let it settle out long enough. What should I do at this point? Re-wash it?
Edit: Sorry about the multiple pictures, the app kept crashing.
Edit: Sorry about the multiple pictures, the app kept crashing.
DurtyChemist
Well-Known Member
That would be a lot of yeast on hand when it's in your fridge. I have 4 mason jars in my fridge and I've realized they've been sitting for almost a year now and I could only imagine if I stored more each time I brewed and didn't use those.
yeah harvest the yeast from your current batch AND make a starter for a different yeast would give you a lot of yeast. It's not uncommon for people to make starters with new yeast. I use the method in the first page with a couple variations on jars I use to get to just yeast and I have access to 50mL tubes so I store yeast in that. It's much nicer than storing a gallon of "beer" with yeast in it.
lol, my recent batch from an oatmeal stout turned out like that. from what I gather using any one of those should be fine with a starter, as long as you don't mind a teensy bit of trub in your starter
h4mmy86
Well-Known Member
I'll be trying my first yeast harvest today and thanks to this guide I'm confident this should be a cinch!
...my only concern is I don't have a lid to cover my largest jar, but I think a little sanitized foil should suffice, so its not much of a concern at all.
Thanks op!
...my only concern is I don't have a lid to cover my largest jar, but I think a little sanitized foil should suffice, so its not much of a concern at all.
Thanks op!
The hard part with that will be shaking it sufficiently enough without a lid.
h4mmy86
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it is a bit of a hassle, but I use the same type of topless 2 quart jars for my yeast starters so at least I'm in good practice. What I've learned is to do it over the sink, cuz you gonna get a little sticky.
h4mmy86
Well-Known Member
Looks like I won't be buying any 1335 anytime soon 
So I have a jar of harvested yeast it appears to be mostly yeast and not a lot of trub or hops in it. How do I know how many ml's of yeast I have.
Im looking at mr malty and it tells me I need 359mls' of yeast?
I am trying to make a starter for an ale with a gravity of 1.056
thanks
Im looking at mr malty and it tells me I need 359mls' of yeast?
I am trying to make a starter for an ale with a gravity of 1.056
thanks
zeg
Well-Known Member
Hard to say without knowing how big your jar is!
I'd just measure up the side to see how deep it is, divide that by the height of the jar and multiply by the volume. Round it down a little since your jar is probably tapered at the bottom, and you've got your mL number. According to the help on the "Repitching from Slurry" tab on the Mr Malty calculator, if you can see a bit of non-yeast material, it's probably about 25% non-yeast, and if you think it's really pure, it's probably still 10% non-yeast. (Hover your mouse cursor over the sliders to see the help.)
I'd just measure up the side to see how deep it is, divide that by the height of the jar and multiply by the volume. Round it down a little since your jar is probably tapered at the bottom, and you've got your mL number. According to the help on the "Repitching from Slurry" tab on the Mr Malty calculator, if you can see a bit of non-yeast material, it's probably about 25% non-yeast, and if you think it's really pure, it's probably still 10% non-yeast. (Hover your mouse cursor over the sliders to see the help.)
Made a started with the first batch of washed yeast last night. I washed it back on 7-28, so we shall see how this goes. The first pic is after being in the fridge for a day after washing and the next was right before I made the starter.
Friday I'll be using my first washed yeast starter which I'm going to make first thing tomorrow. I've now got 3 groups of yeast in the fridge and know I'll likely throw some out before I can use them all but I'll die trying.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Found a quart jar with washed lager yeast from I don't know when...
Curious to see if it will make good beer. Maybe when it gets real cold out I'll rig up a heater and brew a lager.
Curious to see if it will make good beer. Maybe when it gets real cold out I'll rig up a heater and brew a lager.
Made a started with the first batch of washed yeast last night. I washed it back on 7-28, so we shall see how this goes. The first pic is after being in the fridge for a day after washing and the next was right before I made the starter.
How many ml's of yeast you think you got in there?
Just used a starter of my first washed yeast. Washed in late August. Took a while to get the starter going (~48 hrs), but pitched it and it was bubbling away in the fermenter within a few hours. Seems pretty good so far. If the beer turns out well, I'll be trying this out on other strains.
Use Mr Malty to figure out how many billion cells you have/mL and multiply that by the number of mLs you have to get billions of cells. Then input that into Yeastcalc.
For example, take that yeast washed on 7-28. If you go to the Repitching from Slurry tab and input 7-28 as the manufacture date, set the slurry thickness to ~3billion cells/mL and set the non-yeast % to 10% (looks like a nice clean harvest) it says you need 641 mL of yeast to get 177 billion cells. 177/641= 0.276 billion cells/mL or 276 million cells/mL. Now multiply that by the number of mLs, in this case 20mL to get total viable cells. 20 * 0.276 = 5.5 billion cells. You would input that into yeastcalc (and now set viability to 100% since we've already accounted for that).
So, does this look right?
Yeah, looks right to me. Others might have some ideas on different volumes. Boy, it really shows you how much a stir plate helps though...
jwalker1140
Well-Known Member
But isn't there a difference between the 'Repitching from Slurry' tab and what this thread is about? I thought mrmalty assumed someone just pours some of the yeast cake into a jar and throws it into the fridge. At least that's what I think of when someone uses the term 'slurry.'
I always thought one of the keys to yeast washing was using water that has had much of the oxygen driven off in order to encourage the yeast to go dormant, thereby extending its viability. Assuming that's the case, wouldn't mrmalty significantly underestimate the viability of washed yeast?
I appreciate the notion that maybe it's best to just go with what mrmalty says, realizing that the results may be very conservative, but I just have to wonder if this makes sense when I look at the results from the yeastcalc.com screen shot above where it shows 5.5 bil cells need to be grown up to 219.
Is this reasonable or is comparing 'slurry' to 'washed' like comparing apples to oranges?
I always thought one of the keys to yeast washing was using water that has had much of the oxygen driven off in order to encourage the yeast to go dormant, thereby extending its viability. Assuming that's the case, wouldn't mrmalty significantly underestimate the viability of washed yeast?
I appreciate the notion that maybe it's best to just go with what mrmalty says, realizing that the results may be very conservative, but I just have to wonder if this makes sense when I look at the results from the yeastcalc.com screen shot above where it shows 5.5 bil cells need to be grown up to 219.
Is this reasonable or is comparing 'slurry' to 'washed' like comparing apples to oranges?
Yes, this will be my last starter without one.
I have found the Yeastcalc estimates for how much yeast I will end up with after the first starter with washed yeast to be pretty darned close, which implies that the yeast behaved the way the algorithm predicted. I guess if you look at the liquid yeast tab the viability drops more slowly than the slurry tab. It's possible it's a little too conservative.
jwalker1140
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Did you determine that by cell count or by measuring the volume of settled yeast?
I think what I would really like to see is a cell count done on washed yeast of various ages to get a better understanding of how it compares to the results from the mrmalty 'liquid yeast' and 'repitching from slurry' tabs. (Maybe I should ask Santa for a microscope and hemocytometer!) Short of that, I'm inclined to go with your approach of starting with the 'repitching' tab set to 3 and 10.
Interesting. Did you determine that by cell count or by measuring the volume of settled yeast?
I think what I would really like to see is a cell count done on washed yeast of various ages to get a better understanding of how it compares to the results from the mrmalty 'liquid yeast' and 'repitching from slurry' tabs. (Maybe I should ask Santa for a microscope and hemocytometer!) Short of that, I'm inclined to go with your approach of starting with the 'repitching' tab set to 3 and 10.
It was just from the settled yeast. I do have many microscopes and hemacytometers. I should check some of my washed yeast.
jwalker1140
Well-Known Member
I think a study that looks at this carefully would be of tremendous value.
There's a lot of information on the viability of new yeast and of yeast slurries (the first post in the thread called 'why to not pitch on your yeast cake' has a lot of good info on this, with references), but I haven't found much on washed yeast as it's presented in this thread. It seems reasonable that the viability of washed yeast would fall somewhere in between new and slurry, but whether this is true, or whether washed tends to be more like one than the other, I have no idea.
shaunvfx
Member
So, I am pretty sure something went wrong somewhere. When I threw the water in the carboy and shook it around I let it sit for 20 minutes or so. Basically it looked just like the jar in the picture just a bigger version.
Is this even useable?
Looks like all I have is trub and a tiny layer of yeast in the jar, any ideas? It seemed easy enough but obviously not. Are you guys racking off after the shake up in primary or are you pouring? I'm using a 6.5 glass carboy.
Is this even useable?
Looks like all I have is trub and a tiny layer of yeast in the jar, any ideas? It seemed easy enough but obviously not. Are you guys racking off after the shake up in primary or are you pouring? I'm using a 6.5 glass carboy.
jwalker1140
Well-Known Member
By the looks of the photo it seems like you may have brought over quite a bit of the trub. Here's what I do, and it always turns out just like the photos from the original post.
Once the beer has been racked out, I shake the carboy like mad to loosen everything before I add the water, just so I don't have to shake as much once I've added the water that has had the oxygen driven off. Once everything is loose and the clumps are gone, I add water to the carboy, shake just enough to mix well, let it sit for 10-20 minutes and then I pour the liquid on top - being very careful to not disturb the settled trub - into my 1 gal jug. I let that sit for another 10-20 minutes and then I very carefully pour the liquid on top into 2-4 pint jars.
As far as how long I let it sit, I pour to the next jar right when I start to see yeast settling. It's usually pretty obvious because you'll see a fine layer start to form that's much lighter in color than what's already settled. Hope this helps.
Once the beer has been racked out, I shake the carboy like mad to loosen everything before I add the water, just so I don't have to shake as much once I've added the water that has had the oxygen driven off. Once everything is loose and the clumps are gone, I add water to the carboy, shake just enough to mix well, let it sit for 10-20 minutes and then I pour the liquid on top - being very careful to not disturb the settled trub - into my 1 gal jug. I let that sit for another 10-20 minutes and then I very carefully pour the liquid on top into 2-4 pint jars.
As far as how long I let it sit, I pour to the next jar right when I start to see yeast settling. It's usually pretty obvious because you'll see a fine layer start to form that's much lighter in color than what's already settled. Hope this helps.
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