Big breweries using small names to conceal themselves?

I was just watching the movie Beer Wars and it was getting into how the big breweries were concealing themselves by not printing their names on their bottles.
Green Valley Brewing Company from Fairfield, CA was the example they chose to show. Which was a big Anheuser Busch brewery in actuality.

So now I'm curious... Is there a list of these "fake" breweries someplace? Or have any of you run into other breweries like this that don't really exist?

I'd much rather support the small craft breweries on the occasions that I do need to go out and buy some commercial brews!

You can find some things around google if you look.

One surprise for me was Blue Moon

Just look where it's stocked on the shelves. If it's in a convenient spot, it's probably BMC. At least that's how it is around here. All the "good" stuff is on a really high shelf, or the bottom shelf.

I ran across this someplace - but didn't save the link.
and - this is the internet - I don't even know if its accurate.

**

ANHEUSER-BUSCH INBEV
********************
BUD LIGHT, BUDWEISER, NATURALLIGHT, BUSCH LIGHT, BUSCH, NATURAL ICE, MICHELOB ULTRALIGHT, BUD ICE, BUD LIGHT LIME,
BUDWEISER SELECT, BUD LIGHT GOLDEN WHEAT, MICHELOB LIGHT, KING COBRA, HURRICANE HIGH GRAVITY, BUD LIGHT CHELADA,
ROLLING ROCK, BECKS, STELLAARTOIS LAGER, ODOULS NA, HURRICANE MALT LIQUOR, BUSCH ICE, MICHELOB AMBER BOCK,
BUDWEISER CHELADA, BUDWEISER SELECT 55, BUD DRY, LANDSHARK LAGER, MICHELOB, MICHELOB GOLDEN DRAFT LIGHT,
TILT 8% LEMON LIME, BUSCH NA, SHOCK TOPBELGIAN WHITE ALE, MICHELOB ULTRALIME CACTUS, MICHELOB ULTRAAMBER,
BUDWEISER AMERICAN ALE, BASS ALE, KOKANEE GLACIER PILSENER, BACARDI SILVER MOJITO, ODOULS AMBER NA,
ANHEUSER-BUSCH SEASONAL, BECKS PREMIER LIGHT, BACARDI SILVER RAZ, MICHELOB ULTR POMEGRANAT RSPBRRY, BUD ICE LIGHT,
TILT, HAAKE BECK NA, HOEGAARDEN WHITE ALE, ZIEGENBOCK AMBER, BACARDI SILVER STRAWBERRY, BODDINGTONS PUB CREAM ALE,
BECKS DARK, BECKS OKTOBERFEST, BACARDI SILVER LEMONADE, KIRIN ICHIBAN, MICHELOB SEASONAL, WILD BLUE, ROCK LIGHT,
BACARDI SILVER SIGNATURE SANGRIA, MICHELOB ULTR TUSCN ORNG GRAPFRT, BACARDI SILVER WATERMELON, REDBRIDGE,
BACARDI SILVER MOJITO POMEGRANATE, KOKANEE GOLD, TAKE 6 HOME VARIETYPACK, BUSCH ASSORTED, BACARDI SILVER MOJITO MANGO,
BUD EXTRA, MICHELOB HONEYLAGER, LOWENBRAU,

MILLERCOORS BREWING
*******************
COORS LIGHT, MILLER LITE, KEYSTONE LIGHT, MILLER HIGH LIFE, ICEHOUSE, MILWAUKEES BEST LIGHT, STEELRSRV HI GRAV LAGER,
MILLER GENUINE DRAFT, MILWAUKEES BEST ICE, COORS, MILWAUKEES BEST, MGD LIGHT 64, OLDE ENGLISH 800 MALT LIQ,
MILLER HIGH LIFE LIGHT, BLUE MOON BELGIUM WHITE, KEYSTONE ICE, MICKEYS MALT LIQUOR, FOSTERS LAGER,
GEORGE KILLIANS IRISH RED, SPARKS, SPARKS PLUS, MOLSON CANADIAN, BLUE MOON SEASONAL, STEELRSRV TRIPLE EXPORT,
MILLER CHILL, HAMMS, MAGNUM, RED DOG, KEYSTONE, MOLSON ICE, LEINENKUGELSEASONAL, HEN WNHRDS PVT RSRV,
OLDE ENGLISH HG800, FOSTERS PREMIUM ALE, SOUTHPAW LIGHT, HEN WNHRDS BLUE BOAR PALE, LEINENKUGELSUNSET WHT,
MILLER LITE ICE, PILSNER URQUELL, PERONI NASTRO AZZURRO, LEINENKUGEL, BGROLSCH LAGER, LEINENKUGELCLASSIC AMBER,
MOLSON GOLDEN, SHARPS NA, MICKEYS ICE ALE, COORS NA, MOLSON XXX, HEN WNHRDS HONEYHEFE, LEINENKUGELBERRYWEISS,
MOLSON CANADIAN LIGHT, HEN WNHRDS BLOND LAGER, LEINENKUGELRED, LEINENKUGELVARIETYPACK, OLD VIENNA, HEN WNHRD CLSSC DARK,
COORS EXTRAGOLD, HEN WNHRDS BELGIAN WHT, SPARKS LIGHT, LEINENKUGELLIGHT, HEN WEINHARDS SEASONAL, LEINENKUGLCREAMYDARK,
HAMMS SPECIALLIGHT, TYSKIE GRONIE,

Wakadaka said:

You can find some things around google if you look.

One surprise for me was Blue Moon

Click to expand...

Yeah, Blue Moon being made by Coors was big for me also. However, the bottle says Coors right on it, whereas the Green Valley Brewing Company doesn't say Anhueser Busch anyplace.

Its the hidden ones that make me wonder what other ones are hidden giants.

So where do you draw the line?

Is Redhook a "craft" brewery?

They are ~1/3rd owned by InBev-AB

How big the brewery company doesn't really matter much to me. A long history of piss poor beer makes me shy away from these AB-I craft beers; but not because they are a big company. It makes sense for a ABI to make a smaller batch craft beer under a different label. Bud is marketed as cheap alcohol for people who don't want to taste much while getting loaded. A Budweiser Hefeweisen at $7.99/6 pack just wouldn't appeal to Bud drinkers and would not be bought by discerning beer drinkers. However, I think Hoegaarden is pretty tasty on tap.

At the same price point, I will probably try the smaller (especially local) brewer first since I've had better luck over time with the quality from smaller brewers. But I wouldn't not try a Green Point or Blue Moon product. Especially, if I was in some of these Western and Mid-Western restaurants where you are lucky the one non-Bud option is a Hoegaarden or Blue Moon.

When an AB-I enters the market, it is competition for smaller guys but it is also validation. If AB-I is selling a Wit, it is probably easier for a local Wit brewer to get distributed to the same stores. They might not have the great shelf space, but they can get in where they couldn't before.

I love the fact that since Miller and Coors married, BMC became just BM.

Who cares who owns what...All that matters is if you like the beer or not. This whole beer snob thing is ridiculous....Heck read some folks opinions of some of the beers made by some craft breweries...Some folks think Dogfish head sucks...All that really matters is if you like the beer or not.....

Well, Rev, I suppose that's true, if all one cares about is the beer. But the huge breweries have been able to sustain the three-tier distribution system that effectively controls small and craft brewers' access to markets, through political and economic influence. That, to me, is reprehensible, whether I can stomach their beers or not, and I won't support them.

Pilgarlic said:

Well, Rev, I suppose that's true, if all one cares about is the beer. But the huge breweries have been able to sustain the three-tier distribution system that effectively controls small and craft brewers' access to markets, through political and economic influence. That, to me, is reprehensible, whether I can stomach their beers or not, and I won't support them.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't drink inbev products because I abhor their reprehensible business practices, and don't want my hard earned dollars to further support them.

I love hoegarden, but after learning their owner, will not be purchasing it anymore.

Pilgarlic said:

Well, Rev, I suppose that's true, if all one cares about is the beer. But the huge breweries have been able to sustain the three-tier distribution system that effectively controls small and craft brewers' access to markets, through political and economic influence. That, to me, is reprehensible, whether I can stomach their beers or not, and I won't support them.

Click to expand...

The biggest thing is that the AHB is successful, not because they've made themselves into the "evil corporate empire" that Beerwars would have you believe. They've done it because the majority of people choose their beer over all the vast choices out there, whether macro or micro. It's that simple...

My thing about all this is....The craft beer industry has existed since right around the time I turned 21, about 24 years ago...at least that's when I first noticed there were OTHER beers around besides BMC....there was snpa, and bell's and sam adams starting to pop up in a few stores in Metro Detroit at that time, as well as imports like Guiness, Bredore's and Double Diamond (from England- the first non bmc bottled beer I ever bought)...This stuff was first in my awareness in the mid to late 80's....

In fact when I was underaged I had my first taste of bud, spat it out and made my decision that beer sucked...and drank other things in the interum, mostly wine, and bourbon...in fact the first legal drink I ever bought was a bottle of calvados. Yet, since I loved to read, I always heard about beers like guiness, and other things...so I kept hearing that there was "good beer" out there.

Then I turned 21 and shortly after, like I said above, I began to see these OTHER beers around in bars and better beer/wine stores around my college campus. Plus the first micro brewery was in a resteraunt near campus as well.

I think my first non BMC beer I tried in a bar, was a guiness....And, as much as I think little of it NOW, it was a soul changing moment...I truly found out that there was something better than a budlight out there.

The point being..There has been alternative to BMC somewhat readily available since probably 1985...and more and more everyday.

Despite bmc's control over distribution craft, or imported beer has managed to be available to one degree or another for a lond time.

And now with commercials for Sam Adams, and even a show about dogfish head on one of the most popular cable channels...it really is NOT invisible anymore...if it ever was...And I don't believe it ever was.

Just like it was my choice to explore the world of beer for 24 years, it has been other folks choice to make Budlight the best selling beer on the planet, despite the fact that personally it makes me want to puke. Craft beers make other folks want to puke...It's just the way it is.

It's not AHB's "fault" that their product is the top seller...Nor is it totally a vast conspiracy to manipulate the marketplace as some of us beer snobs want to convince ourselves (though it does go on to a greater or lesser extent) But it's NOT the main...

The main reason is that more folks like those safe, (flavorless to me) light lager style of beer.

And despite a 10% loss of sales over time...it's still going to be the top seller in the market place...

Why? Because the majority of folks choose it over the vast array of other products out there. It simply reflects the relatively safe tastes of human beings...especially the american populace.

Most people are afraid to try new things...so their horizens or limited...but there's also going to be folks, who DO try craft beers....and go back to BMC...because that's what they prefer....there's nothing wrong with them...it's just their choice....

Just like it is our choice to like the alternatives...that's just the way it is.

That's why I don't get too bent out of shape about this stuff anymore...It's all about choice.

Revvy said:

The biggest thing is that the AHB is successful, not because they've made themselves into the "evil corporate empire" that Beerwars would have you believe. They've done it because the majority of people choose their beer over all the vast choices out there, whether macro or micro. It's that simple...

My thing about all this is....The craft beer industry has existed since right around the time I turned 21, about 24 years ago...at least that's when I first noticed there were OTHER beers around besides BMC....there was snpa, and bell's and sam adams starting to pop up in a few stores in Metro Detroit at that time, as well as imports like Guiness, Bredore's and Double Diamond (from England- the first non bmc bottled beer I ever bought)...This stuff was first in my awareness in the mid to late 80's....

In fact when I was underaged I had my first taste of bud, spat it out and made my decision that beer sucked...and drank other things in the interum, mostly wine, and bourbon...in fact the first legal drink I ever bought was a bottle of calvados. Yet, since I loved to read, I always heard about beers like guiness, and other things...so I kept hearing that there was "good beer" out there.

Then I turned 21 and shortly after, like I said above, I began to see these OTHER beers around in bars and better beer/wine stores around my college campus. Plus the first micro brewery was in a resteraunt near campus as well.

I think my first non BMC beer I tried in a bar, was a guiness....And, as much as I think little of it NOW, it was a soul changing moment...I truly found out that there was something better than a budlight out there.

The point being..There has been alternative to BMC somewhat readily available since probably 1985...and more and more everyday.

Despite bmc's control over distribution craft, or imported beer has managed to be available to one degree or another for a lond time.

And now with commercials for Sam Adams, and even a show about dogfish head on one of the most popular cable channels...it really is NOT invisible anymore...if it ever was...And I don't believe it ever was.

Just like it was my choice to explore the world of beer for 24 years, it has been other folks choice to make Budlight the best selling beer on the planet, despite the fact that personally it makes me want to puke. Craft beers make other folks want to puke...It's just the way it is.

It's not AHB's "fault" that their product is the top seller...Nor is it totally a vast conspiracy to manipulate the marketplace as some of us beer snobs want to convince ourselves (though it does go on to a greater or lesser extent) But it's NOT the main...

The main reason is that more folks like those safe, (flavorless to me) light lager style of beer.

And despite a 10% loss of sales over time...it's still going to be the top seller in the market place...

Why? Because the majority of folks choose it over the vast array of other products out there. It simply reflects the relatively safe tastes of human beings...especially the american populace.

Most people are afraid to try new things...so their horizens or limited...but there's also going to be folks, who DO try craft beers....and go back to BMC...because that's what they prefer....there's nothing wrong with them...it's just their choice....

Just like it is our choice to like the alternatives...that's just the way it is.

Click to expand...

You don't think marketing, product placement, and lobbying have anything to do with their popularity?

A good marketing campaign can sell you a hole in the head, and you'll think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

After all, some guy in the 70's sold millions of rocks for $5-$10 apiece and made a killing. Everyone wanted their own "pet rock"

If money were not an option, how many people would choose eating mcdonalds over a gourmet steak and lobster dinner?

My father in law only buys what's on sale. Doesn't matter who makes it. He purchases the cheapest beer he can find. Many have just accepted that beer tastes like **** and have learned to like it.


I'm an ex smoker, and actually enjoyed the taste of cigarettes. That is, until I attempted to smoke one after being smoke free for a year. Made me want to vomit.

AZ_IPA said:

So where do you draw the line?

Is Redhook a "craft" brewery?

They are ~1/3rd owned by InBev-AB

Click to expand...

I don't care, cause their ESB is yummy.

_

wildwest450 said:

I don't care, cause their ESB is yummy.

_

Click to expand...

I agree - I love me some longhammer as well...

I don't feel the need to "support the small brewery". It is not a charity. If a big brewery makes a product I like, I will (and do) buy it. Same for the little guys. Go with what you like, not with the size of the manufacturer.

o4_srt said:

You don't think marketing, product placement, and lobbying have anything to do with their popularity?

Click to expand...

I think that if I can look around a shelf of beer, or the bottom of the chill chest, where in the 80's things like guinness, and snpa, and bredores were found, usually gathering dust , and can decide to give something non bmc a try, other folks can too. Heck nowadays you can find in Michigan at least, Bell's two hearted ale, or numerous other craft beers on the shelf at wal-mart, or meijer's or kroger, so it's even easier these days to try new things....if you want to....And in my relatively small town of 30,568. I have 6 stores in a half mile radius that carry more craft beers than bmc products. And that's just the ones I know about and can walk to. So I'm not seeing many distribution problems of bmc blocking the craft beer industry.

Bernie Brewer said:

I don't feel the need to "support the small brewery". It is not a charity. If a big brewery makes a product I like, I will (and do) buy it. Same for the little guys. Go with what you like, not with the size of the manufacturer.

Click to expand...

+1

I tend to agree with Revvy, but it is rather shady how they create subsidiaries like Blue Moon. I can't count how many people have argued with me that Blue Moon was a craft brewery. If they like it I could care less, but when they purposely try to buy what they think is a craft beer and are duped then I have an issue. Yes it is their responsibility to know what they consume but at the same time why can't Coors just just call itself Coors.
What really pisses me off is when an establishment is either ignorant of their product or is trying to save some $. We have a local beer called Beltian White that is in the same style as Blue Moon. More then once I have caught a bar/restaurant serving Blue Moon when I ordered a Beltian. The bar tender's comment was, "it is the same thing". She got pissy when I told her that with Beltian my money goes down the street. With Blue Moon my money goes to Coors.

While I agree that I drink what I like, I'm in the mindset that I'd rather support a smaller non public-owned brewery than a huge one. It's not about charity, it's about supporting the fact that there are better products out there that can't even get their product on the shelves without being pushed out by the big bullies.

I'm not saying that I won't ever buy brews owned by the Big guys, but it'd be nice to know which ones are disguised by a brewing company that doesn't exist. That to me is a marketing tactic that I don't agree with.

Revvy and Bernie. I'm sure you guys don't object to people who choose to try to buy local. If there we two equal (price & flavor) beers one local and one BMC. Which would you buy?

That said I have bought a lot of Coors Light when hanging with friends and consuming piles of beer. In that case when I want a lite lager the Coors is the best value. But if near equal price and flavor I will always buy local.

fifelee said:

Revvy and Bernie. I'm sure you guys don't object to people who choose to try to buy local.

Click to expand...

THat's the point, I don't care what people buy, or what they choose to drink. And I don't judge people if they choose to drink Bud Light, or craft beer.

I'm just tired of people bashing those who do like bud light, or those who whine about "the big evil corporate breweries who Sh*t on the little guy. Like I said, I can buy more craft beer than BMC in 6 stores in a half mile from my loft, and can find regional craft beers in even Walmart these days. Or the idea that the Craft beer industry is any more or less altruistic that the macros....

There have been a couple of posts on here where the gild has fallen off the lilly of some of our more naive members when they learned that reps of some of our more famous craft breweries sit on brewing organizations with reps from "big beer." People have called for boycotting them...

Or the other one, the idea that AHB cut costs by adding adjuncts to their beers. And foisted it on an unwilling population.

Which is BS and one of the most Historically inaccurate things that many beersnobs like to believe to make them feel so superior.

In fact thew whole history of the light lager is the American populace's (not the brewer's) desire to have a lighter beer to drink, which forced the German brewers to look at adding adjuncts like corn and rice...not as the popular homebrewer's myth has been to make money by peddling and "inferior commercial product" by adding adjuncts, but in order to come up with a style of beer that the American people wanted.

Maureen Ogle proved that in Ambitious Brew it actually made the cost of a bottle of Budweiser cost around 17.00/bottle in today's dollars. Gee I've paid 17 dollars for a bomber of beer before...not too much difference there, eh?

When AH released Budweiser with it's corn and rice adjuncts in the 1860's it was the most expensive beer out there; a single bottle retailed for $1.00 (what would equal in today's Dollars for $17.00) this was quite difference when a schooner of beer usually cost a nickel.

This is the part that blows the "cost cutting" argument out of the water. In order to use those adjuncts you have to process them separately from the rest of the mash, and then add it to the mash. You either have to do a cereal mash to pr-gelatinize them or you have to roll them with heat to make them flaked...either way, besides the labor and energy involved to grow and harvest those plants, you expend labor and energy to make them usuable. You have to boil them in a cereal mash. That's another couple hours of labor and energy involved in the cost of the product.

It wasn't done to save money, it was done because heavy beers (both english style Ales and the heavier Bavarian malty beers) were not being drunk by American consumers any more. Beer initally was seen around the world as food (some even called it liquid bread), but since America, even in the 1800's was a prosperous nation compared to the rest of the world, and americans ate meat with nearly every meal, heavy beers had fallen out of favor...


And American 6-row Barley just made for heavy, hazy beer.

America like most of the world had quite an extensive array of beers available prior to the German Invasion of brewer's which later introduced the light lager. They pretty much had the "brewing culture" of all the countries that people immigrated from...Most English beer styles..you know Porters, Stouts, Partigyles, stuff like that. As well as mostly heavy German Styles of beer. Not to mention people from Scotland, Ireland, Russia and other places where beer was drank.

Remember up until then, beer was food.

The American populace ate it the NEW product up!

The market WAS in a sense, craving light lagers...The German brewers didn't want to make the switch. They were perfectly happy with their bocks and all those other great heavy German Beers. But the rest of us weren't into it.

Bush and other German Brewers started looking at other styles of Beers, and came upon Karl Balling and Anton Schwartz's work at the Prague Polytechnic Institute with the Brewers in Bohemia who when faced with a grain shortage started using adjuncts, which produced the pils which was light, sparkly and fruity tasting...just the thing for American tastebuds.

So the brewers brought Schwartz to America where he went to work for American Brewer Magazine writing articles and technical monographs, teaching American brewers how to use Rice and Corn...

The sad moral of the story is....The big corporate brewers did not foist tasteless adjunct laced fizzy water on us, like the popular mythology all of us beersnobs like to take to bed with us to feel all warm and elitist....it was done because our American ancestors wanted it.

Blame your grandfather for having lousy taste in beer, NOT the brewers themselves. Like everything in business, they had to change or die.

Maureen Ogle's book Ambitious Brew is the best and most historically accurate of American Beer History books out there. I can't recommend it enough.

It a dose of reality. I used to believe the same stuff you all did until I read it. It's kinda humbling to realize we're NOT "the pawns of an evil corporate empire" after all.



http://www.amazon.com/dp/0151010129/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Her blog archive has a lot of material covering the imbev takeover or Anheiseur Bush as well as stuff that didin't make it into here original book, so I encourage you to dig through that as well.


http://maureenogle.com/blog/

It clears up a lot of stuff like this, and busts a ton of myths like this one.


Listen to this from Basic Brewing;

November 30, 2006 - Ambitious Brew Part One
We learn about the history of beer in the USA from Maureen Ogle, author of "Ambitious Brew - The Story of American Beer." Part one takes us from the Pilgrims to Prohibition.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr11-30-06.mp3

December 7, 2006 - Ambitious Brew Part Two
We continue our discussion about the history of beer in the USA with Maureen Ogle, author of "Ambitious Brew - The Story of American Beer." Part two takes us from Prohibition to the present day.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr12-07-06.mp3

Click to expand...

That's why I find the arguments the "bud basher's" like to use so amusing...It's so historically inaccurate. It really is our ancestor's fault that BL is the most popular beer in the world.

And they had choices back then as well. They didn't HAVE to drink that style, they chose too.

That's why I'm so about, let folks like what they like, and WE like what we like, and there's plenty for ALL to go around. And don't whine or make excuses and look for a vast corporate conspiracy, when the truth is people have always had the right to choose.....and happen to choose something different from what we tend to like.

Bernie Brewer said:

I don't feel the need to "support the small brewery". It is not a charity. If a big brewery makes a product I like, I will (and do) buy it. Same for the little guys. Go with what you like, not with the size of the manufacturer.

Click to expand...

This is all good and fine except when the big three buy up all of the available hop futures, leaving the small brewers and us screwed. They do this for two reasons:
1. It insulates them against rising hop prices.
2. It screws the competition.

One of the main reasons the big three enter the market is because the small brewers are cutting into their profits. I have to ask, are they trying to regain some of the market, or are they trying to undercut the small businesses in order to reduce the competition. Next time you wander through your local supermarket, ask yourself why there are so few craft beers not owned by the big three. It's because they pay for the space and require the stores to not make it available for others.

I think you are doing us all a disservice with this attitude.

mcarb said:

I think you are doing us all a disservice with this attitude.

Click to expand...

Sorry but this is that naivety I'm talking about......Because we don't buy the "evil corporate empire" idea as promulgated by beer wars....I guess I'm a little more of a realist than that. Having read Ogles book really opened my eyes.

I drink what I like, and generally the BMCs and their bastard craft offspring don't do it for me. I do like Pilsner Urquell and Peroni, which I see are now owned and/or distributed by Miller; I don't drink them often though. Generally, I also like to try different beers that don't have their profits going to a giant conglomerate. I too have seen Beer Wars and also have read Ambitious Brew, I get it. That doesn't mean I have to like it or patronize businesses that conduct themselves in such ways. I won't go on any further, if you want to you can read the book and watch the movie for yourself and make your own decision.

Revvy said:

Sorry but this is that naivety I'm talking about......Because we don't buy the "evil corporate empire" idea as promulgated by beer wars....I guess I'm a little more of a realist than that. Having read Ogles book really opened my eyes.

Click to expand...

I'll admit to not having read the book. But are you saying that AB doesn't buy hop futures? Are you saying this practice has not raised prices of hops? Are you disputing the fact that AB and MC don't provide huge incentives to stores and bars to stock their beer exclusively?

I may be a beer snob, I will admit that. But I am also big into supporting small businesses rather than large faceless corporations. I'd rather eat at a taqueria than a taco bell. I'd rather drink a craft beer than a mass produced one.

Redhook used to be one of my favorite beers. Once they were bought out, I noticed a huge change in the flavor. Gone was the floral aroma. I don't buy Redhook anymore for two reasons: I try not to support large corporations (not because I think they are evil, but because I would rather my money go to a small business), and it doesn't taste as good.

So revvy, why is it necessary for the big 3 to have 10 different kinds of packaging for the same product, if it's not to take up shelf space and make their product mote accessible.

Here's a scenario. You are craving cookies. I mean, REALLY craving cookies. You walk into the super market, and you see 3 shelves of Oreos, and one facing of shur-fine faux Oreos. You have never heard of the shur-fine brand, and the packaging is just a brown paper bag. Which do you choose? The Oreos that you see advertised every day on tv, and that all your neighbors regularly eat, or the shur-fines?

One caveat, although I refuse to support ahb, I don't look down on ahb drinkers. I will, however, attempt to broaden their horizons, if they're into it.

In fact, I respect them for being able to mass produce the light lager style consistently. The style itself is not easy to perfect, and consistency is the number one problem with homebrew.

Beer is beer no matter who makes it or what their name is, if you like it then buy and drink it, if you hate it, give it away and never drink it again...

And okay so AB calls themselves Green Valley or whatever, that is called a subsidary, where they basically bought a small brewery bc hey they are doing good and people like it, people in the region know the name so lets keep the name everything is the same about the beer anyway...

You guys make me think of my company, I work for a sign Company, US Signcrafters: We make and install signs, well we have a second company called Building Impressions where we build and install architectual entrance ways, same company same people diff name, same concept! get over yourselves, Beer is Beer no matter who makes it! DirtyD

DirtyD said:

Beer is beer no matter who makes it or what their name is, if you like it then buy and drink it, if you hate it, give it away and never drink it again...

And okay so AB calls themselves Green Valley or whatever, that is called a subsidary, where they basically bought a small brewery bc hey they are doing good and people like it, people in the region know the name so lets keep the name everything is the same about the beer anyway...

You guys make me think of my company, I work for a sign Company, US Signcrafters: We make and install signs, well we have a second company called Building Impressions where we build and install architectual entrance ways, same company same people diff name, same concept! get over yourselves, Beer is Beer no matter who makes it! DirtyD

Click to expand...

They didn't buy a small brewery, they just printed up some labels that said green valley and pasted it on their beer. The locals had never heard of green valley brewing.

mcarb said:

But are you saying that AB doesn't buy hop futures?

Click to expand...

Guess what, 3 years ago during the so called hop shortage, it was learned that all the breweries, macro and micro both, were involved in hop futures. And in monopolizing the market of certain hops that we homebrewers couldn't get.........The little guys are no more or less altruistic than the big guys. It's called business.

You think it's JUST the big three that doesn't want us to be able to sell homebrew????

The big 3 are not entering into the market because the craft brews are eating into their pockets they are entering into the market because it is a new market to make money in.

Here is the bottom line. I agree with Revvy that we shouldn't bash those who like bud light and we shouldn't whine about "the big evil corporate breweries. If I was in charge at BMC I would do exactly what they are doing. But at the same time there is nothing wrong with letting people know about the tricks that BMC use like creating fake companies like Blue Moon. If this is snobby then I am a snob.

Even Adam Smith recognized that market power results in inefficient markets. The Antitrust Division of the Department of Justice exists not to encumber competition and market freedom, but to foster it. Unfortunately, since the '70's, "efficient market" has come to be equated with "free market". As I said, even Adam Smith emphasized that this is not true. The tendency for those with the size to exercise market power isn't "evil", it's maximizing. It's "rational", in economic terms. Until recently, nobody ever disputed that it was the responsible role of government to regulate oligopoly and monopoly to eliminate it's inefficient (and inequitable) effects on markets. In this case, with the three-tier system, the state does exactly the opposite. It institutionalizes under sanction of law Anheuser's contol of the distribution system. This isn't really disputed, although its effects are. Even if government doesn't reclaim its established, traditional role of regulating markets to protect them from the abuses of market power, it simply doesn't belong in the position of entrenching, sanctioning and institutionalizing that power.

fifelee said:

Here is the bottom line. I agree with Revvy that we shouldn't bash those who like bud light and we shouldn't whine about "the big evil corporate breweries. If I was in charge at BMC I would do exactly what they are doing. But at the same time there is nothing wrong with letting people know about the tricks that BMC use like creating fake companies like Blue Moon. If this is snobby then I am a snob.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much where I stand. I just don't like giving money to huge corporations. But hey, I work for one. Drink what you want. But I prefer buying my beer locally, buying my coffee from local roasters, and buying my food locally. I think it gives you a better product and helps promote local businesses.

Regarding Green Valley brewery, I have never heard of that. I have however seen the huge AB brewery on green valley road in Fairfield for over twenty years. They didn't purchase a small brewery and keep the name.

snccoulter said:

The big 3 are not entering into the market because the craft brews are eating into their pockets they are entering into the market because it is a new market to make money in.

Click to expand...

+1. And in their minds they are trying more to cater to US, the beer geek, rather than their die hard BMC drinkers.

Those guys are no more gonna bother trying a BMC "pseudocraft" beer subsidiary than a bottle of stone arrogant bastard or rogue, or a regional micro. They're wedded to to their light lagers.

They're hoping upon hope that WE will try their stuff, and maybe like it. And many of us will, at least once.

And if it fails, which most of them will, because they will be insipid and watered down beers designed by marketers and not true loves of whatever style they are making (that's why most of them suck) they'll still have their legions of bud light lovers. So it won't be too much of a loss to them if they don't succeed.

But with anyluck they'll have another RedHook on their hands, something that DOES appeal to both the more adventurish bmc drinker and the beer geek....

I'm actually happy they try to expand their markets....it means even more beers to taste. And some of it might actually be good. I mean if I can't have a decent micro in a chain or a sports bar when I might venture into it, I at least like the fact that there might be a beer I might actually want to drink with my bar burger. Even if it is one of "theirs."

fifelee said:

Revvy and Bernie. I'm sure you guys don't object to people who choose to try to buy local. If there we two equal (price & flavor) beers one local and one BMC. Which would you buy?

Click to expand...

There are no two equal beers. There just aren't. I will buy whichever I am in the mood for. I don't give two sh!ts about the size of the brewery. Beer made in a smaller brewery isn't necessarily better just because it is a smaller brewery. It isn't necessarily worse either. I don't care who you buy from. it is just that I am sick of hearing about the "evil big guys". And that extends beyond breweries. All of these big corporations were little at one time. They had to do something right to get as big as they are now. The same can and will be done by the "little guys" if they have the right stuff.

Goose island sold out to millercoers, i think.

But im with rev on this. Big corporations doesnt have to equal evil.

Not to mention all the great research AB supports. And believe it or not, their partly owned distributors might just be distributing yout fav craft beer too.

I assume everyone here banks at credit unions and only eat locally grown produce too.

Correct me if I'm wrong - aren't all companies out to make money; be it Anheuser, Full Sail, Stone, Sierra Nevada, Miller, General Mills, Exxon, etc...

Show me a company that says "I'll operate at a loss because I truly care about the poor people being abused by big business" and I'll listen....

SwampassJ said:

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/bye-bye-bells/Content?oid=923858

Click to expand...

That's 5 years old. Last I heard that all changed, he got around it and is back in Chicago.

In early December 2007, Bell's re-entered the Chicago market via two new distributors by creating two new beer brands, Kalamazoo Royal Amber Ale and Kalamazoo Hopsoulution. This was done for legal reasons: since each beer avoids the use of the "Bell's" name and logo, and uses a different recipe from previous Bell's brands, Larry Bell contends that these are not the same beers that were assigned to his former distributor.

Click to expand...

SO in a sense even BELL's created a "small name" to get into a market, just like the evil empire.....

They even have a brewpub now;

Bell's Brewery

(Brewpub)

655 W Irving Park Rd (Northalsted)
Chicago, IL 60613
(773) 472-3371[