Corn Vs. Cane sugar

I have been breewing a belgian double clone in the primary for over a month. I was considering racking and adding sugar to a secondary fermentor.
The question is: how much sugar and what kind? When is cane sugar used and when is corn sugar used. I seem to find different answeres everywhere.

Lastly, if I do add sugar, what would I base the amount on? The yeast is a high gravity yeast.

pcarey1222 said:

I have been breewing a belgian double clone in the primary for over a month. I was considering racking and adding sugar to a secondary fermentor.
The question is: how much sugar and what kind? When is cane sugar used and when is corn sugar used. I seem to find different answeres everywhere.

Lastly, if I do add sugar, what would I base the amount on? The yeast is a high gravity yeast.

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Cane vs. Corn sugar - either is fine, they both ferment completely so there shouldn't really be a difference, other than the fact that cane sugar contributes a bit more fermentables per lb. than corn sugar. So if you use cane sugar, use a bit less than if you used corn. Brewing software should tell you exact percentages, are you using any software?

As far as how much, it depends on your recipe and how dry you want it. What's your recipe and what is the gravity at now?

Also, not sure why you'd rack to secondary just to add the sugar. You could do that in primary. Then rack to secondary after that's all done fermenting out if you want to age/clear further.

Chemically speaking corn sugar(dextrose) is pretty simple, it'll ferment fast, quick, and clean. I'm sure that's why it's the home brewers choice for priming, well that and it's cheap (damn government subsidies...)

Table sugar (sucrose) is a few steps more complex than dextrose. It'll have undergo about 3 conversions to get to where dextrose is at.

If you're adding a little bit the subtle nuances probably won't matter, if you're trying to bump abv by 1% then the sucrose might stress your yeast out a little more than dextrose leading so more ester(flavor/smell) production

Another thing to consider is that working over your yeast a second time might make more go to sleep and you will have less active yeast when it comes to prime time.

So why are you trying to add the sugar to the batch?

Glucose has been shown to lead to the production of more esters compared to a low-glucose wort. This is glucose specific, sucrose does not do this. I suspect that when the old Belgian brewers started to add sugars to their beers, it may partly have been to get the beers to have a drier finish, but equally so to promote ester formation (and cost and weird alcohol taxes). Fast forward to modern times, and seems that many homebrewers are unaware of the role in ester formation

Interesting information!

Another aspect to concider is taste. the Pepsi/ Mt. Dew throw back sodas re introduced last year are a good example. Modern day Pepsi is make for corn sugar, the throw backs were made with cane sugar. Which one do you like better. Not sure on the taste difference that would be in beer making.
BTW corn sugar disolves faster than cane sugar.

How active is your yeast? If its been in primary for a month, it's probably not that active. Adding sugars at this point will likely stress whatever yeast remains which will then produce eaters you may not want; Ye newly added sugars may not completely ferment out if most the yeast has gone dormant and you'll have a cloyingly sweet beer; or a combination of the two.

If you want to add sugar to a primary fermentation, it's best to do it at about 65% attenuation. This is when the yeast start to settle down and are getting tired eating the complex maltose. If you introduce sugar at this point, the simple sugars are very easy for the yeast to consume and you'll have no issues with either complete fermentation or off flavors.

My unsolicited recommendation is to leave your Dubbel be and try this out next time. good luck!

BrewandWineSupply said:

Another aspect to concider is taste. the Pepsi/ Mt. Dew throw back sodas re introduced last year are a good example. Modern day Pepsi is make for corn sugar, the throw backs were made with cane sugar. Which one do you like better. Not sure on the taste difference that would be in beer making.
BTW corn sugar disolves faster than cane sugar.

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The sugar itself may taste different, but what do the fermented beers that had the different sugars taste like? They're very very hard to tell apart. Besides, if you want to be true to Belgian Brewing tradition, either one is right. The belgians use both sugar types. Get what's cheapest if youre going to add it.

Thanks for all of the information. I think I will skip adding sugar at this point and just rack to secondary in order to further clarify and age.

pjj2ba said:

Glucose has been shown to lead to the production of more esters compared to a low-glucose wort. This is glucose specific, sucrose does not do this. I suspect that when the old Belgian brewers started to add sugars to their beers, it may partly have been to get the beers to have a drier finish, but equally so to promote ester formation (and cost and weird alcohol taxes). Fast forward to modern times, and seems that many homebrewers are unaware of the role in ester formation

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if the yeast use invertase to make glucose from sucrose, why would using sucrose be any different?

dcp27 said:

if the yeast use invertase to make glucose from sucrose, why would using sucrose be any different?

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This http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/papers/2004/G-2004-1304-255.pdf has the gory details but since sucrose = 1 glucose + 1 fructose it's metobolisn by yeast is different (and slower) than pure glucose (corn sugar)

dcp27 said:

if the yeast use invertase to make glucose from sucrose, why would using sucrose be any different?

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Here is another very good paper
flavor-active esters: adding fruitiness to beer

They say that while the mechanism is not known, "high" glucose containing worts produce more esters than those worts with high maltose. I was making a bit of a leap comparing glucose to sucrose but if maltose itself (glucose + glucose) is not leading to increased ester formation, than I wouldn't think that sucrose (glucose + fructose) would be any different.

I suspect it might have to do with compartmentalization. Glucose taken up by the yeast is in one pool that is able to signal for more ester formation, while glucose produced by the hydrolysis of maltose or sucrose in in a separate pool that does not lead to more ester formation. Yeast cells (actually most cells) are highly compartmentalized, and like in real estate, it is location, location, location. Often times the substrates are in the cell, the enzymes to do the conversion are there, but alas, the two are in the wrong compartments so the reaction doesn't occur (grind up the cells though and it will happen)

This sounds like this topic needs a taste test.

I will make a batch of beer with a partial based pilsen light LME and sucrose and then a beer with 100% LME.

Recipe #1:
6 lbs Pilsen Light LME
1 lb 8 ozs Cane Sugar (sucrose)

1.5 oz Kent Goldings
US-05 Yeast

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Recipe #2:
7 lbs 12 ozs lbs Pilsen Light LME

1.5 oz Kent Goldings
US-05 Yeast

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I'll taste to see which one turns out better.

ryno1ryno said:

This sounds like this topic needs a taste test.

I will make a batch of beer with a partial based pilsen light LME and sucrose and then a beer with 100% LME.

Recipe #1:
6 lbs Pilsen Light LME
1 lb 8 ozs Cane Sugar (sucrose)

1.5 oz Kent Goldings
US-05 Yeast

-----------------------------
Recipe #2:
7 lbs 12 ozs lbs Pilsen Light LME

1.5 oz Kent Goldings
US-05 Yeast

------

I'll taste to see which one turns out better.

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Any feedback from your test?