Did I kill my yeast in starter?

Hey hey...Made my first starter yesterday around 3:30pm.

(200-330Ml water + 2-3oz of DME)

Boiling for 10 minutes, placed in ice bath. Here's where things get fuzzy:

Flask was in ice bath for what seemed to be only a minute or 2. I took temp, and the temp was shooting down very quickly (at least it seemed to be)....Temp seemed to be approaching 70, so I pitched yeast.

So as of now (15+ hours later)...no action at all. Part of me thinks the wort was too hot and I killed my yeast (could be paranonia)...

Am I get more yeast today and making a new starter? Any way to tell if yeast is dead?

Did you aerate it well? Shake it or use a stir plate? They may just be a bit sleepy. Get the yeast to about room temperature first too?

The vial was out on counter for about 2-3 hours, I have been shaking it as I pass by....but cant help the feeling that wort was too hot...

But- It should not take very long to cool that small amount of wort down to a reasonable temp, no?

Well If it was in the 70's as far as I am aware, you didn't. However that little volume of wort could ferment quite quickly. You may not even notice, and it may take longer than your mind wants to allow patience for to see any bubbling activity. Keep shaking the container for a couple days, put in the fridge for a good solid 24 hours or more, decant out the liquid and then swirl the yeasties back up into suspension and give them another meal, see if it cultures more. I mean you said it was approaching 70's what was the temperature exactly. If it was even near 70 you didn't kill them by heat. More likely you haven't noticed the fermentation take place and it happened rapidly, or they are a little sleepy and slow to start off. someone here will probably give you better ideas than mine, but imo, aside from sanitary conditions yeast starters are pretty hard to screw up, unless you really put it in over like 120 or so I'd doubt they are dead. However, if they weren't up to around the temperature of the wort, you could have shocked them pretty good and it may take them a while to show signs of activity. Most of the time such issues in my limited experience require patience. I doubt you killed them.

RDWHAHB. Last week I heated a started inadvertently up to 97*. I was using a lab stirrer I had never tried before, and had about 500 ml of starter on it overnight. When I came down the next morning it felt warm, and I check the temp, finding the 97* then. I took it off and set it aside and let it settle to room temp. I then decanted it and added fresh wort to the yeast cake. I should have put a blowoff tube on that starter!

YMMV, depending on the strain. Mine is a Wyeast Kolsch yeast. What yeast did you pitch?

Mine takes a long time to cool, especially in the flask. So I doubt 1 to 2 mins it was from 212 to 70.

Check the gravity and see it it's changed.

I'm new to this but here's what I do to cool my starter wort quickly.

In a 3 qt. pot I put some water (about 1/3 full) and ice in and put the pot in the freezer. ( I do this before anything else).

Then I put 1000 ml (4 cups) of water in a smaller pot and bring to boil. Remove from heat; add 3 oz. DME; stir till it disolves; return to heat and boil for 15 minutes; remove from heat.

Get bigger pot out of freezer. A nice thin layer of ice has formed on top. Place the smaller pot in the larger pot. Let sit for about 3 minutes. This completely cools off the bottom and sides of the smaller pot.

Remove the smaller pot from the larger pot and put the smaller pot with wort into the freezer (because I've cooled the sides and bottom it doesn't melt my freezer rack). Let it sit in there for 20 minutes.

After 20 minutes I take it out and get a temperature reading. I've only done this a couple of times but it has proven to be down to about 70 F after the 20 minutes in freezer. I use a timer so I don't wander off and forget.

Pour the wort into my flask, top with whatever water I lost in boil (usually about 200 ml) and pitch my yeast.


This may seem like overkill to get the wort cooled quickly but it makes it go fast and I do a lot of bread baking and I'm sure my kitchen has wild yeast from that floating around and I don't want that getting into my wort while I have it just sitting out waiting to cool on its own. Cooling it in the freezer makes it go very quickly and lets me get it done, covered and on the stir plate as fast as possible.

I pitched the starter today and still no bubbling after almost 8 hours....When should I worry?

MrEggSandwich said:

I pitched the starter today and still no bubbling after almost 8 hours....When should I worry?

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After 48-72 hours

helibrewer said:

After 48-72 hours

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I agree with that. 8 hours is not that long.

MrEggSandwich said:

(200-330Ml water + 2-3oz of DME)

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Either I'm too drunk and screwing up math, or I'm really surprised nobody has noticed this... so correct if I'm wrong, but...

With the range you've given, let's assume a worst case scenario and you used 3oz DME with 200ml water. That's like 15oz/liter, which is like 60oz/gallon which with my s---y free software comes up to like a 1.164 gravity. That's WAY too high for a starter. Maybe someone else can expand on the effects of this, but I think your yeast might have just been to bogged down by an extremely high gravity that they didn't take off. Maybe after you pitched it into a more reasonable gravity, they could wake up, if given more time, or you may need to pitch more yeast... anyone else?

ChessRockwell said:

Either I'm too drunk and screwing up math, or I'm really surprised nobody has noticed this... so correct if I'm wrong, but...

With the range you've given, let's assume a worst case scenario and you used 3oz DME with 200ml water. That's like 15oz/liter, which is like 60oz/gallon which with my s---y free software comes up to like a 1.164 gravity. That's WAY too high for a starter. Maybe someone else can expand on the effects of this, but I think your yeast might have just been to bogged down by an extremely high gravity that they didn't take off. Maybe after you pitched it into a more reasonable gravity, they could wake up, if given more time, or you may need to pitch more yeast... anyone else?

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This was my first starter, so I used the online directions from my local homebrew shop. TYPO IN INSTRUCTIONS!!!

In the ingredient list (top of page) it lists 500ML water

In the instructions it says: Add 200ML water....

I think I just learned a lesson.

Most liquid yeast is direct pitch able(5 gallons). I think that pitching that quantity into a small starter wouldn't be an issue. Maybe there is something else going on here.
What yeast? Quantity? Expiration date?

My first brew took a solid 3 days before noticeably starting, but that was old yeast. I was panicking, but just left it, it turned out great.. really should've saved a few bottles. Learnt from that mistake, now I save at least 2 from every batch, plus share some with granda.

mux said:

Most liquid yeast is direct pitch able(5 gallons). I think that pitching that quantity into a small starter wouldn't be an issue. Maybe there is something else going on here.
What yeast? Quantity? Expiration date?

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1 vial WLP300..expiration date 7/11/12.

No activity this morning...Can I get another vial and pitch today?

boil another 300ml of water...let it cool and then add to starter. At least you will be at the proper gravity. I'm sure the yeast are still alive. This is a great lesson in why you should use a hydrometer or refractometer when making anything.

1 to 2 minutes is not nearly enough time to cool the starter. All you cooled was the glass and the 1/4" in wort touching it. I've had to deal with this in the lab and getting something cooled from the autoclave to check pH range.

Personally, I'd get another one if it isn't a haul to your LHBS. Or if you won't be able to get there during the workweek.

lou2row said:

1 to 2 minutes is not nearly enough time to cool the starter. All you cooled was the glass and the 1/4" in wort touching it. I've had to deal with this in the lab and getting something cooled from the autoclave to check pH range.

Personally, I'd get another one if it isn't a haul to your LHBS. Or if you won't be able to get there during the workweek.

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Agree. New yeast, new proper starter. Don't chance good beer on 10$ of yeast.

I tend to add a couple of packets of dry yeast now and then to my online orders for brewing stuff, as they won't boost the shipping cost, and can be had for $2-3 each. They're good insurance to have on hand for times like these.

MrEggSandwich said:

1 vial WLP300..expiration date 7/11/12.

No activity this morning...Can I get another vial and pitch today?

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So what happened? What did you end up doing?

humulene said:

So what happened? What did you end up doing?

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This thread is a year old. The OP has probably brewed 100 batches by now.

BansheeRider said:

This thread is a year old. The OP has probably brewed 100 batches by now.

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I ended up re-pitching a packet of dry yeast.

Ironically enough, as I type this, I am making a starter for my Saturday brew. What yeast you ask? WLP300....Wacky stuff. Almost a year ago.

No more frying yeast for me...I throw a gallon sandwich bag full of water in the freezer the night before, and chill that starter down real nice.

ThreeDogsNE said:

I tend to add a couple of packets of dry yeast now and then to my online orders for brewing stuff, as they won't boost the shipping cost, and can be had for $2-3 each. They're good insurance to have on hand for times like these.

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These are words of wisdom.

MrEggSandwich said:

I ended up re-pitching a packet of dry yeast.

Ironically enough, as I type this, I am making a starter for my Saturday brew. What yeast you ask? WLP300....Wacky stuff. Almost a year ago.

No more frying yeast for me...I throw a gallon sandwich bag full of water in the freezer the night before, and chill that starter down real nice.

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Glad to see you're still brewing. I read the thread with great interest all the way through and then it stopped without a final outcome. I had to ask!

I just pitched my first yeast starter yesterday, and also have a bit of trepidation about this. I think its just being new to the process, and a little gun-shy/scared of messing up a batch of beer, but I do have questions of my own. I used Wyeast #1214 Belgian Ale, and did about 1 cup of DME to 1000ml of water, and only used about 400ml of what I made to pitch the yeast in. I cooled in an ice bath, and left at room temperature for about 24 hours, aerating every time that I walked by, and used a foam stopper rather than an airlock on top. I pitched the yeast into my dubbel last night, but have yet to see any results. I know its less-than-twenty-four-hours, and I shouldn't be panicking for another couple of days, but I'm curious as to how to kill yeast starter. If it has time, oxygen and food, it should still continue to grow, but an abundance of sugar will just make the yeast a bit sluggish, correct?

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

The starter you made prolly did nothing more than tell you if your yeast was good. That size starter didn't give you much. If your OG was 1060 you would need a starter of almost 2.5L.

Plus a starter doesn't mean your going to see activity right away.

For some reason I never see much activity in my Wyeast starters, but my White Labs starters always seem to blow my foam stopper out.

Go figure.