240v or 120v

Ok, I presently have 240v service in my garage which is where presently brew. My intent for now is build a electric HLT and maybe a year or two out perhaps an electric kettle. But the question at hand is 240v or 120v and the reason I ask is this. A 30A GFCI breaker which is in my opinion is 100% required here is nearly 80$. If I go 120v its just a cheap GCFI outlet and most of the part are pretty cheap. I also have a PID which I may or may not use with the HLT but its rated for 110-240v so no concern there. So the question is 240v going to be that much better and worth the additional upfront cost? What sort of current draw can one expect from a 2000 to 3000 w element?

Thanks

-Robert

I used a 1650w element in my 8g HLT for a while and it was OK. It took a good while to heat strike/sparge, but not longer than the mash for sparge and for strike I'd just mill my grains, clean stuff, etc. while it heated. Really, the HLT is easy IMO. I watch the thermometer, old school I guess you could say, since I don't have RIMS/HERMS. I think you could totally get away with 120 on the HLT and then shoot for a 240 BK down the road.

I'd definitely recommend using 240 volt, especially since you already have it available. With a 240 volt, 30 amp outlet, you can use a 5500 watt element drawing 23 amps; with 120 volts only a 1500watt element drawing 12.5 amps, or maybe, if you have a 20 amp outlet, a 2000 watt element drawing 16.7 amps. So with 240 volts, you can heat your water/wort 2.5 to 3.67 times faster - that makes a big difference on brew day.

A lot of people use spa disconnect panels for the GFCI because they are pretty cheap (as of a couple of years ago you could buy a 50 amp spa panel at Home Depot for $49 - don't know what they are charging now). That works well for people like me who plug into a dryer outlet and don't want the GFCI while using the dryer. If you have a dedicated outlet for brewing where you can always leave the GFCI breaker in place, you'd probably be better off to go ahead and buy the breaker, because with a spa panel you'll have additional expenses in wiring and possibly an additional pair of plugs depending on how you wire it.

EDIT: I didn't catch the part where you only want an electric HLT for now - you could probably get away with 120 if you don't mind the additional heating time, but I'd definitely go with 240 for a boil kettle.

Based on the feedback thus far thinking better to start off with 240 v then have to rebuild my HLT to later to support it. Thanks for the suggestion on the SPA disconnect. This is what I found near me at local big box store. I think it will work what do you think DeafSmith?

http://www.menards.com/main/electri...onnects/50a-br-spa-panel/p-1462096-c-6435.htm

A SPA panel is a good solution. The one from Meynards 'appears' to be ok. This one from HomeDepot is the one I frequently recommend and is often pictured in this forum.

P-J

ronan said:

Based on the feedback thus far thinking better to start off with 240 v then have to rebuild my HLT to later to support it. Thanks for the suggestion on the SPA disconnect. This is what I found near me at local big box store. I think it will work what do you think DeafSmith?

http://www.menards.com/main/electri...onnects/50a-br-spa-panel/p-1462096-c-6435.htm

Click to expand...

I use the one from Home Depot - don't know anything about other brands. I'd follow P-J's recommendations as I'm pretty sure he knows more about this than I do.

So I picked up the one from Menards but may return it if the consensus is the version from Home Depot is better and tried-n-true. I did notice my wires are only 12g so the most I can run is 20a even though the Spa Disco is rated for 50a. I suppose it's not an issue since the breaker in the box is 20a, right? Probably looking at a 2500 to 3000w element does this sound correct for the circuit size? I will probably run a heavier wire at some point when I decide to do brew pot.

A 3000 watt, 240V element only draws 12.5 amps.

I'd go 240VAC for a couple reasons, it's just kind of bad ass having something like that in a home application on 240VAC. Yes the current will be a lot less, well I guess 1/2 basically. Trying to push more than 2000 watts through a 20A GFCI outlet may be pushing it, though for short durations it should take it alright.

im doing the same as you as far as the build goes.
240v to start. i tested my 4500w element today at 110v with 5 gallons of water (although it will be used for 220v, just wanted to see it "run") after 2 hours, running full on, did not reach boiling temps (186f).

when i heat the water in the HLT, i bring it to a boil at first, just to rid it of Chlorines and such. i then let it "rest" to and maintain it at strike/sparge temps. and i usually start with 10-12 gallons in the HLT, 220v is a necessity

im doing the same as you as far as the build goes.
240v to start. i tested my 4500w element today at 110v with 5 gallons of water (although it will be used for 220v, just wanted to see it "run") after 2 hours, running full on, did not reach boiling temps (186f).

when i heat the water in the HLT, i bring it to a boil at first, just to rid it of Chlorines and such. i then let it "rest" to and maintain it at strike/sparge temps. and i usually start with 10-12 gallons in the HLT, 220v is a necessity

A 4500 Watt 240V element powered with 120 V only puts out 1125 Watts - no-wonder why it never boiled!

Power a low density 1650 watt 120V element with 120V and the results are completely different.

So I haven't bought the element yet, but with a 20A 240v circuit I was assuming 2500w should be enough? Should I be looking at low density?

If it's for a HLT (touching only water) you don't need to worry whether the element is low density or high density.

You should figure on maximum 80% of rated capacity for continuous use. 20A * 240V * 0.80 = 3840W maximum draw. So 2500W should be well within what your circuit can provide. Obviously a higher rated element would heat up your HLT quicker.

How many gallons are you trying to heat at a time? I have 3000W in my HLT and it heats ~7g of strike/sparge in about 40 minutes.

I found this element on Amazon, its a 3000w Amico and it looks like it attaches by sandwiching vs a screw type. Any use one of these?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008IBM2XQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

ronan said:

I found this element on Amazon, its a 3000w Amico and it looks like it attaches by sandwiching vs a screw type. Any use one of these?

Click to expand...

...how do you plan on attaching that? its designed for a very specific receptical.

May I ask what 3000W element you are using, kinda a hard one to find in a screw in application?

ronan said:

May I ask what 3000W element you are using, kinda a hard one to find in a screw in application?

Click to expand...

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html

You can find basically any Wattage you could want here.

I purchased a ripple 5500W and a straight 5500W from here. Got it quick and no complaints so far.

To give a drunken rambling type response to the original question: the answer is 240VAC. 120VAC is ordinary, mundane, everyday commonplace. 240VAC is more esoteric, involved, interesting, unique. Hm had a good amount of homebrew so far this evening and now I want something I can use on 240VAC.