Espresso Stout

Hi all,

For my third ever batch of beer I am looking to make an Espresso Stout. My LHBS carries Brewer's Best kits, so for simplicity's sake I was considering purchasing the BB Irish Stout kit, and steeping fresh ground espresso. So far I have a few questions:

What is the best way to impart the espresso taste? I have heard of people putting whole beans in the secondary (which I am without, for now), cold-brewing espresso and adding it to the wort (when?), or steeping ground espresso during the boil. I am going for a fairly strong coffee note, however I obviously still want it to taste more like a beer than a cup of espresso.


Should I cut back the amount of bittering hops, or add them later to compensate for the added bitterness of the espresso? I am planning on doing a full boil (assuming I can get the keggle together in time) and know I have to already cut back the hops 20% all around.


I have read that priming with DME produces finer carbonation than using corn sugar, which would be desirable in this style. Can anyone back that up?

For reference, here is the list of ingredients in the kit:

http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1023_Irish_Stout.pdf

I brewed an Irish Stout kit from Midwest and bottled all but one gallon. To that one extra gallon, I added a cup (8 oz) of French press-brewed coffee (a medium roasted Costa Rican I think) after primary fermentation. Didn't turn out as well as I expected, just had a strange bitter/sour flavor. I think maybe the hop and coffee flavors just don't mesh very well.

I'm looking forward to hearing other peoples' ideas, as I want to try this again.

There are plenty of successful coffee brews out there, I'm just looking for the best way of going about it. If this kit isn't close enough to what I should start with, I am open to piecing the ingredients together (only if necessary, as this would probably cost a little more too).

I chose espresso because I prefer the flavor over regular coffee. Even if I want something a little milder, I will usually drink Cafe Americano over a standard cup o joe.

Midwest supplies has a kit called Peace Coffee Java Stout and its only like 30 bucks. I was thinking about ordering it myself. Its received some rave reviews!

BTW, I forgot to mention that brew day is scheduled for Friday!

I usually add a pound of ground espresso at flameout. (Cafe Bustelo -- the yellow vacuum sealed brick) But then, I love my coffee flavor. It seems I only taste the hops when I burp.

archie, can you elaborate? Is this only steeped until the yeast is pitched or left in loose during fermentation, where it will get stuck in with the yeast cake before racking to the bottling bucket?

firebird77 said:

archie, can you elaborate? Is this only steeped until the yeast is pitched or left in loose during fermentation, where it will get stuck in with the yeast cake before racking to the bottling bucket?

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I leave it in loose for the whole fermentation. The grounds all settle out to the bottom by the end of everything.

CAUTION: This is a STRONG coffee flavor. Some say too strong. Others love it. It does come out nice and bitter. Coffee is a definite flavor, not an undertone like in a lot of stouts. The head on the stout ends up brown. The stout itself is black.

Here's my original recipe I've used numerous times:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/double-barrel-coffe-stout-27891/

And here's the latest one I tried that basically came out the same since there's just so much coffee in it. It's Papazian's Toad Spit Stout recipe with some Starbucks added. The amount of coffee flavor was about the same as the original, even though it only used half the coffee:

Ingredients

* 1 can hopped Dark Liquid Malt Extract (3.3lb)
* 3 lbs Extra Dark Dry Malt Extract
* 1 lb Dark Dry Malt Extract
* 0.75 lb Crystal Malt (40L?)
* 0.5 lb Black Patent Malt
* 0.5 lb Roasted Barley
* 0.5 lb ground coffee (I’m using Starbucks French Roast for this)
* 1 oz Nothern Brewer’s Hops (Boiling)
* 1 oz Fuggles Hops (Finishing)
* 1L starter of Wyeast Irish Ale Yeast 1084

Process

1. Steep cracked grains in 2 gallons 170F water for 30 minutes
2. Remove grain bag, bring water to boil
3. Add malt extracts and Northern Brewer’s hops – boil for 45 min
4. Add Fuggles Hops for last 15 minutes of boil
5. Steep (coarse-ground) coffee beans for 10 min at flameout
6. Cool wort and proceed as normal

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I'd say what how much coffee you use depends on what you want. If you want a stout with a coffee hint to it, maybe use only a couple ounces of grounds. If you want coffee with a stout hint to it, go ahead and use half to a whole pound.

Other people will tell you to actually make the espresso, chill it, and dump it either into primary or secondary. If you Google "espresso stout" the first hit shows that method instead of mine.

FWIW I would recommend AGAINST boiling the grounds at any time -- that can extract way too much bitter nastiness from the coffee and boil off the actual coffee flavor.

Thanks, exactly what I needed to know. On hand I have about a half a pound of Starbucks Espresso beans. I think I will get them ground fairly coarse (a regular espresso grind would NOT be good IMO).

As a 4 gallon batch beer calculus puts it at OG 1.064, FG 1.017, ABV 6.3%

This seems pretty good to me, but if I was to bump up the ABV, what fermentables would I add?

It's an extract kit, so more dark dme would add fermentable sugars. It will also alter color, bitterness, and alcohol content.

My love for Guiness Extra Stout was my motivation to bumping up the ABV, but for this go-around I'm leaving it as is.

I know that adding fermentables would in turn produce a higher gravity beer, but my question was specifically what a few people would add if this was their brew.

Just a thought...should I worry about the fact that the espresso grounds will not be sanitized? I won't be boiling them, and I can't think of any other way to sanitize them.

I haven't worried about them yet and haven't had a problem. If you want, you could probably soak them in vodka or something.

If you add them at flameout it shouldn't be a problem. The wort should still be hot enough to sanitize anything that goes in.

If you are going to cold brew (or warm brew and then cool it) there is a risk, but many people seem to follow that practice just fine. I would think warm brewing it would sanitize the espresso, and as long as you put it into a sealed, sanitized container immediately after it was brewed, you would eliminate 99.99999% percent of the risk.

I figured this. For some reason I thought my primary wouldn't be able to fit a 5 gal batch (it's a Lowes paint bucket) but I measured it and 20 qt leaves ~20% headspace. I set up a blow off tube just in case.


Last night I left the primary in my bedroom, ambient temp ~66* and the wort was at about 73* this morning. Now I've moved it to the basement, floor temp is 62* on concrete, 63* with a layer of carpet. The directions reccomend an ambient temp around 65*, but what would be the ideal wort temp using Cooper's Dry Ale yeast?

You would be fine keeping it down there.

I use to work in a independant coffee shop and to use fresh ground espresso to steep with your specailty grain yould be pretty effective, but however i think it would be best for oil extraction to make espresso as you normally would and let it sit with some fresh ground espresso beans for 24 hours before adding it to your wort prior to pitching yeast. this way over the fermentation process or secondary fermentation less flavour is lost. this is achieved by the additional grinds sitting with your espresso. just food for thought. i plan on using this process for making a coffee porter some day...

Something else to keep in mind is the style of coffee beans you use. Some styles are very acidic and can impart a tart character where others are very mild overall and may be hidden by a stout. Find a good green coffee beans supplier on-line as they usually describe each different bean's profile like you'd see with hops. You could probably come up with just the right profile your looking for with the right research. Roasting your own beans isn't hard at all and you could futher control your ingredients - all depends on how far you want to go. Also, cheap beans, like all cheap ingredients save a buck but loose on quality. My two cents....

Chuck_Swillery said:

Something else to keep in mind is the style of coffee beans you use. Some styles are very acidic and can impart a tart character where others are very mild overall and may be hidden by a stout. Find a good green coffee beans supplier on-line as they usually describe each different bean's profile like you'd see with hops. You could probably come up with just the right profile your looking for with the right research. Roasting your own beans isn't hard at all and you could futher control your ingredients - all depends on how far you want to go. Also, cheap beans, like all cheap ingredients save a buck but loose on quality. My two cents....

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All to true my friend. another thing to consider is if its free trade. from my experience its not exactly top notch quality its more so if you want that fuzzy feeling inside when you buy it, i dont want to knock all the 'free trade' plantations though. the ethiopian stuff we had once was alright.

now im wondering if flavoured coffee can negitively effect a beer. Any preservatives in it anyone knows about?

Flavored coffee beans are a no no to coffee enthusiasts. I can tell you that most people recommend using a simple bean and if you want to add flavor afterward like hazelnut or something else, you do so with a syrup after brewing(talking about drinking coffee only here). The beans that one would buy that come flavored are oily. Many high end manufacturers of coffee/espresso machines say to not use flavored beans because they gum up the workings of the machine.

I personally just brewed a espresso stout yesterday where the recipe calls for adding the espresso at bottling or optionally at secondary. I am torn but have some time before I have to decide which way to go and might split the batch to see what works best. Either way I will be using simple organic beans so to not add any oily texture to the brew and I have a nice home unit to make my espresso in.

I love both beer and coffee so this one seemed like a win/win to me.

CrAzYmOuSe said:

I love both beer and coffee so this one seemed like a win/win to me.

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This seems to be a common trend among home brewers and craft drinkers...those who are particular about their beer also tend to be particular about their coffee. The winter issue of Philly Beer Scene covered this trend in depth, further adding to my drive to brew a coffee beer this month.

Here is the recipe that I went with on Saturday. I was told by the people at the LHBS that this won a gold metal at a local contest. I'll let you know how it comes out.

http://www.brewersconnection.com/recipes/lucky8stout.htm