BIAB Brewing (with pics)

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Pointyskull said:
Perhaps the question should be: how long should it take - in theory - for temps to drop to a target range using room temperature grains in a BIAB brew, with strike water approx 10 degrees above target mash temp?
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It takes a while, guessing 5 minutes or more. The key IME is stirring very well initially, then again after 3-5 minutes. Cold grain and hot water takes a while for the heat to stabilize, and stirring helps. Stir much more than you think is needed, rest 5 minutes and stir a bunch again, I usually hit a pretty stable temp after 5 minutes or so then wrap up the pot in a few blankets.

Even though I still take a temperature after the initial stir...I have sort of learned to disregard my initial readings yet rather wait a good 5-7 minutes till the readings are much more stable.

Also, I always stir prior to checking temp.
 
Pointyskull said:
I just finished my 4th BIAB this past weekend, and while I hit a 74% efficiency (thank you, BarleyCrusher) I still have the same problem with mash temps after adding grain.

I heated the water ten degrees about my target mash, but it seems like the temp just doesn't drop quickly - maybe a degree or so every 15 minutes. As a result my mash temps have tended to stay on the higher side of my target.

Without resorting to having to add cold water - which would throw off my water volumes - I'm not sure how to improve on that.

Perhaps the question should be: how long should it take - in theory - for temps to drop to a target range using room temperature grains in a BIAB brew, with strike water approx 10 degrees above target mash temp?
Click to expand...

I do it the opposite way. I get my water right at my mash temp, cut back the heat, add grains, re-apply heat, and stir like mad until I get within 2 degrees of my mash temp. Takes about 5 minutes of stirring and heating. Then cut the heat, and wrap my kettle with my blanket thingy. My temp ALWAYS goes up and additional 2 degrees after cutting the heat.
 
I just add a couple ice cubes. Doesn't add much water volume and drops it pretty quickly.

The extra volume doesn't matter for me either because I will also hold back 0.5-1 gallon water if I can and then just use it to "sparge" if I need to bring up the volume. My logic is I'm not quite sure how much I'm going to be able to squeeze out of the bag and it's always easier to add more water than remove it.

Anyone see a flaw in that plan?
 
raymadigan said:
I got bored today, its raining, so I decided to finish putting my Koozy together. The bottom is 2 layers of reflexiv thick and the top is three layers. It fits on pretty tight so I might not need to strap it on to keep it sealed. I had the reflexive laying around from another abandoned project and I bought 1 roll of the metal tape for about $4.
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nice work...I may have to do that once the winter gets here.. Do you leave your wrap on when the flame is on?
 
Originally Posted by PackerfaninSanDiego
nice work...I may have to do that once the winter gets here.. Do you leave your wrap on when the flame is on?
Click to expand...
No, I think it would melt. I put it on after I stir it and am sure I am close to goal temperature.
Click to expand...

I can attest to it melting. The second time I used my reflectix wrap on my keggle, I forgot to remove it when I turned the heat on to get to mash out temp. It is still useable, but it sure isn't as purty or efficient.
 
TCGoose said:
I've been doing BIAB for the past seven months or so. For my last few batches I've been crushing my own grain with a corona mill and have noticed that I'm getting extremely cloudy wort (but better efficiency). Now, for the most part and trub settles out in the fermenter, but it forces me to leave behind a significant portion of the wort in the boil kettle. Anyone have any advice on how to get clearer wort, or is that just one of the drawbacks with BIAB (no vorlauf to help filter particulates)?
Click to expand...

The extra cloudiness is a drawback of the Corona mill, not necessarily BIAB. The mill creates various sized particles in a single grind, including fine flour. It would be more difficult to do a traditional sparge because the flour may clog it. Sometimes I use Whirlfloc tablets in the boil. It helps but does not clear it entirely. I am getting used to HB vs store bought, and now clear beer seems strange and unnatural.
 
TCGoose said:
I've been doing BIAB for the past seven months or so. For my last few batches I've been crushing my own grain with a corona mill and have noticed that I'm getting extremely cloudy wort (but better efficiency). Now, for the most part and trub settles out in the fermenter, but it forces me to leave behind a significant portion of the wort in the boil kettle. Anyone have any advice on how to get clearer wort, or is that just one of the drawbacks with BIAB (no vorlauf to help filter particulates)?
Click to expand...

First thing is to make sure that you are using a polyester voile bag - not muslin. The voile will keep the flour out of your wort.

Second - RDWHAHB. Personally, I just drain the whole kettle into the fermenter. The height of my spigot leaves behind maybe a quart which allows for the worst of the cold break and the irish moss.

A couple of weeks in the keg, carbing and chilling, and most of my beers are crystal clear (well, except for one - not sure what's up with it.)
 
Lately my beers haven't been as clear but I'm thinking it may be due to switching my base malt from Briess to Maris Otter? I'm going to try cold crashing a little longer before kegging, 5 days instead of 2-3 and see if that helps. Beer still tastes great but it's nice to have a nice looking beer.
 
after reading a few more posts...it seems that it is better to add heat after you add your grains and your mash temp is low, compared to having too high of a mash temp after you add your grains. Then you have to rush around finding ice, cold water or frozen water bottles which I had to do once.
 
Euphist said:
First thing is to make sure that you are using a polyester voile bag - not muslin. The voile will keep the flour out of your wort.

Second - RDWHAHB. Personally, I just drain the whole kettle into the fermenter. The height of my spigot leaves behind maybe a quart which allows for the worst of the cold break and the irish moss.

A couple of weeks in the keg, carbing and chilling, and most of my beers are crystal clear (well, except for one - not sure what's up with it.)
Click to expand...

I do use voile. Maybe it is proteins that makes it cloudy. I added a spigot to the brew kettle and it has a SS elbow inside to 2mm of the bottom. I leave behind maybe 8 ounces :)

Still cloudy after aging and chilling, so it might be protein haze. A subject for another thread.
 
Sounds like cold haze. My beers will have that for about 3 weeks in the fridge after that they are crystal( unless I dump the yeast into the beer which I do on purpose fairly often)
 
I am relatively new to brewing, I have made 7 batches so far. The problem is I am having hip and hand surgery at the end of August and only have a few weeks to iron out some process issues. I will be out of commission for 3 to 4 months and I have 2 goals that I would like to accomplish before the surgery.

1) Have a few batches come out that are reasonable beers. These are for me to drink while I am recovering.

2) Have 4 good batches that are either lagering or conditioning that would be ready for when I can start brewing again.

My first 3 batches were extract brews. They were just OK, both light in color and light in flavor. I talked to the people at the LHBS about this and they suggested maybe I measured the steeping grains too low. I did 3 batches and they all came out with the same issues. I am drinking them anyway :)

The rest of the batches were BIAB, and I bottled the first one a week ago. It is even lighter then light. I can attach an image if it would help, but suffice it to say it is way too clear.

The first 3 BIAB batches had OG's of 1.024, 1.036, 1.038. I should have figured it out earlier but the grain was not ground well. It is the same as the extract brews but I wasn't able to put this together until I read posts in this forum. I now have a corona mill and will start grinding my own grain. Of these 3 batches, I'm hoping 1 of them is drinkable.

During these batches I was working to get the process right. I brew 2.5 gallon batches, and I was not getting enough trub free wort to fill the fermentor. I decided it was better to have more wort then not enough so my 4th BIAB was 3.5 gallons. I also double ground the grain for this brew. I am unsure of the OG for this batch, I spaced on measuring until all I had was trub wort.

I know I have to do a better job in measuring, I'm hoping having enough wort will make that easier.

Process:

  • grind my own grain

  • brew batches of 3.5 gallons so I have enough trub free wort to fill the fermentors with 2.5 gallons

  • ferment/condition for 4 weeks in primary

  • cold crash for 1 week in primary

  • bottle condition for 3 weeks

Questions:
From brew day to bottle takes 5 weeks with this schedule. If I only have 4 weeks, is it better to spend the last week ferment/condition or cold crash?

I cold crash in the primary fermentor. Maybe my experience to date is with more trub then I should have in the primary, should I rack to secondary before cold crashing so the volume of yeast/trub on the bottom of the beer is smaller to make bottling clearer. Even when I cold crash, when I put the siphon in the bottom of the fermentor a small cloud occurs.

For the brews that will lager, I will of course rack them to secondary bottles. Should I top them off with water so they are full with less of an airspace? Do I lean to a higher OG and color to account for this added water?

I am very open minded at this point, any suggestions will be considered.

Thank you
 
raymadigan said:
Questions:
From brew day to bottle takes 5 weeks with this schedule. If I only have 4 weeks, is it better to spend the last week ferment/condition or cold crash?

I cold crash in the primary fermentor. Maybe my experience to date is with more trub then I should have in the primary, should I rack to secondary before cold crashing so the volume of yeast/trub on the bottom of the beer is smaller to make bottling clearer. Even when I cold crash, when I put the siphon in the bottom of the fermentor a small cloud occurs.

For the brews that will lager, I will of course rack them to secondary bottles. Should I top them off with water so they are full with less of an airspace? Do I lean to a higher OG and color to account for this added water?

I am very open minded at this point, any suggestions will be considered.

Thank you
Click to expand...

I personally don't worry about "trub free" wort...it's all going to settle out anyway. No sense in making an extra gallon to dump. (though a little loss is inevitable.)

As far as the corona mill goes, the saying is, crank it until you're scared then give it another quarter turn. Mine is actually set a quarter turn out from the plates touching. Since the manufacturer doesn't know the meaning of the word "tolerance" the same may not work for you.

The fermentation schedule will work either way. If it was me, I would probably just cold crash the last couple of days. Honestly though, if you have good temp control and are pitching enough healthy yeast, 4 weeks is probably overkill. At first, I had to learn to be patient with my beer. Then, as I improved my process, I learned that patience for patience sake is just wasting time. Some of my beers hit the keg in 8 or 9 days, some in 3 or 4 weeks...

As for the siphon stirring up trub, I just hold it up off the bottom.

The only time that I top off is if I have way more boil off than expected. (like when I got my new burner). That said, I keg, so if I was worried about head space, I would just purge with co2.
 
Euphist said:
I personally don't worry about "trub free" wort...it's all going to settle out anyway. No sense in making an extra gallon to dump. (though a little loss is inevitable.)
Click to expand...
The issue is, when you are only making 2.5 gallons then too much trub in the primary means 1 less beer :)

The fermentation schedule will work either way. If it was me, I would probably just cold crash the last couple of days. Honestly though, if you have good temp control and are pitching enough healthy yeast, 4 weeks is probably overkill. At first, I had to learn to be patient with my beer. Then, as I improved my process, I learned that patience for patience sake is just wasting time. Some of my beers hit the keg in 8 or 9 days, some in 3 or 4 weeks...
Click to expand...
I understand what your saying. I can play it by ear. I don't keg and have a limited place to store the bottles. I am the only one drinking my beer so some will just have to wait. Sometimes, bottling is a PITA.
 
Euphist said:
The fermentation schedule will work either way. If it was me, I would probably just cold crash the last couple of days. Honestly though, if you have good temp control and are pitching enough healthy yeast, 4 weeks is probably overkill. At first, I had to learn to be patient with my beer. Then, as I improved my process, I learned that patience for patience sake is just wasting time. Some of my beers hit the keg in 8 or 9 days, some in 3 or 4 weeks...
Click to expand...

I too have found longer fermentation schedules to be overkill. I'm usually bottling within 14 days of brewing on most of my beers. I brew a lot of IPA's that I dry hop so my schedule is letting it ferment for about a week and if the hydrometer tells me fermentation is done, I then dry hop in my fermenting bucket (I see no need to transfer to secondary as I feel this is overkill as well) and let that ride for another week before I rack the beer to my bottling bucket. I suppose I could rack to a secondary vessel and let it ride longer for clearing purposes, but I'm not all that concerned about how clear my beers are as long as they are tasting great... :mug:
 
I almost always bottle at the end of week 3 or 4 depending on when I get time to do it. If dry hopping I add the hops a week before bottling.
 
Not to brag, but after some terrible efficiency issues over my first 2 biab brews, my Oktoberfest just hit 89%. First was 61 and second was 65. The culprit? It was a double crush. What a huge improvement!
 
First, if you are doing BIAB and need a bag, I'll vouch for the quality of Wilserbrewer's products. Good stuff.

I need some help determining an efficiency issue. And it might not even be a problem.
Since I moved to BIAB this spring, I'm trying hone my process and get a consistent efficiency. My last four batches have all been off projected gravities. Not just a couple points but a lot.
For instance, I just bottled my White IPA that was supposed to have an OG of 1.078. Instead, I was at 1.069.
I have a big hopped-up red ale in fermenter now that was supposed to be 1.073 but instead was 1.063. And my Double IPA was supposed to be 1.082 but was 1.073. (all calculated by Brewtoad at 70% efficiency)
Now, my initial thought with all of these readings was that I am not getting the efficiency that I need to get. And so I thought I need to get a better crush (grains have come from two different national supplies plus LHBS) or that there is something else I need to focus on like better temp control during the mash or squeezing the bag more thoroughly, etc.
BUT, here's the weird part. They are all finishing well below where they are supposed to as well.
That Double IPA was supposed to finish at 1.020 and it ended up a 1.011 and thus the ~8.1 ABV was right on target.
The White IPA also finished around 1.011 (projected: 1.020) and the resulting 7.6 ABV is again, right on target.
And my earlier summer wheat was similar (I don't have the exact numbers but OG was supposed to be 1.050 and I think I was 1.045 and FG was lower as well).

So, do I have a hydrometer problem?
Is there something about that free Brewtoad software that might be off?
Do I have an issue at all?
 
These are all large beers! BIAB efficiency, or any no sparge method efficiency will suffer as gravity increases. Can you work in a simple sparge step, either a dunk sparge w/ a 4-6 quarts, or simply pouring a gallon slowly over / through the bag of grain after removal might help. Pretty simple to set a couple of large kitchen / grill utensils over the top of the kettle to rest the bag on while slowly pouring sparge water over the grain bag. At those gravities, there is some sugar, perhaps lots of it still on and absorbed in the mash...

As always, how's the crush? Think I just read today of a fellow that double crushed and bam...efficiency up 20%.
Cheers!
And thanks for the praise above!
wilser

It would also be worth a quick check of both your hydrometer and thermometer.
Hydrometer should read 1.000 in water...check thermometer at boiling and freezing. Freezing, 32 degree check can be done with an insulated cup and as much crushed ice as you can fit...like a slushy stirred well!
 
I had the same issue. My gravity was low on my BIAB brew until I double crushed. I set my corona mill to pulverize and let the drill go full speed. It was very much like a chunky flour going into the mash. With no other changes to the routine, my efficiency was close to 89%. That is up from the low to mid 60s on the previous brews. Btw I squeeze the bag like crazy to get as much wort out of the bag as possible. I recommend a double crush to help boost efficiency.
 
They are big beers but I'm only doing 3-gallon batches right now so plenty of space in 10-gallon pot. I start with 5.5 gallons and that usually leaves me 3 in to the fermenter.
My first thought was crush but I was miffed by the fact they were finishing so low too. Hydrometer checks at 1.000 in water. Will check thermometer. But I'm probably back to crush.
Might be time to invest in the mill. A Corona does the trick?
 
If your mash temp is low they will finish lower because you are producing more fermentable sugars. Mash higher and it will finish higher. When I mashed my brews with the low efficiency, they both finished low, around 1.011-1.014. The mash temp was 148 -150. They turned out great, I just wanted a higher efficiency because I felt like 14 lbs of grain should get more yield than 1.062. My last was 11.5 lbs of grain and I had OG of 1.068 go into the fermentor. :rockin:

I love my ugly corona. It is set up in a Menard bucket. I throw a plastic bag over the top to keep the dust down. It works very well for me. It can take out all my grain in about 15 minutes. Its ugly though.
 
Your lowermfgmis due to the lower og. The yeast are eating the same percentage surges. You start 10 pts lower and end 10 pts lower. The abv is the same as your original target.
 
doublebogey10,
Let's walk through this step by step.

  1. So you get your grains online, crushed by the retailer? It might be a good idea to get a mill. Some shops have wider gaps than others and (especially online shops) aren't willing to adjust or double mill. I have a Barley Crusher and use the default mill gap.
  2. When you mash, do you stir and check temps frequently?
  3. Do you mash-out around 168-170 for 15 minutes?
  4. Do you squeeze or sparge?
  5. Is your boil-off percentage correctly factored?
My process involves raising the water to about mash temperature (not "strike" temp), add the grains, the temp drops, so I turn on the heat to raise the temp to 2-5 degrees UNDER mash temp. Temps will typically increase a few degrees (carryover heat).

After 10 minutes I stir thoroughly and check temp (usually have to turn on the heat for a few minutes), then I stir and check every 10-15 min. After my 60-90 min mash I raise temps to 170 for 15 minutes. Then I squeeze the bejeezus out of the grains.

I like to use THIS CALCULATOR to figure out my water needs. Absorption set to .08, equipment and trub loss to .25 each (for MY system). If you do full volume boils you only need to worry about Total Water Needed, not mash or sparge water. It took some work, but I figured out my boil-off is 13%.

I usually end up with 6 gallons in the kettle, 5.5 gal in fermenter, 72% efficiency, or 85% for session ales. I may try a finer crush to bump that up a little, but I'm more concerned with consistency than anything, which I'm definitely getting.

So, do I have a hydrometer problem?
Click to expand...
Doubt it.
Is there something about that free Brewtoad software that might be off?
Click to expand...
Do you have the appropriate batch size and efficiency set?
 
TangoHotel said:
If your mash temp is low they will finish lower because you are producing more fermentable sugars. Mash higher and it will finish higher. When I mashed my brews with the low efficiency, they both finished low, around 1.011-1.014. The mash temp was 148 -150. They turned out great, I just wanted a higher efficiency because I felt like 14 lbs of grain should get more yield than 1.062. My last was 11.5 lbs of grain and I had OG of 1.068 go into the fermentor. :rockin:

I love my ugly corona. It is set up in a Menard bucket. I throw a plastic bag over the top to keep the dust down. It works very well for me. It can take out all my grain in about 15 minutes. Its ugly though.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, if I mash at a higher temp, my OG will be higher and thus my FG will also be higher?

I too have an ugly corona mill that works great for me, although I'm wondering if my crush could be even finer. I'm going to try cranking it down even more for my next brew to see how that works out...
 
MMJfan said:
Just to be clear, if I mash at a higher temp, my OG will be higher and thus my FG will also be higher?

I too have an ugly corona mill that works great for me, although I'm wondering if my crush could be even finer. I'm going to try cranking it down even more for my next brew to see how that works out...
Click to expand...

Mash temp primarily affects FG.
Higher mash temp = less fermentable sugars = higher FG

Lower mash temp = more fermentable sugars = lower FG

I don't think OG is affected by mash temp
 
MMJfan said:
Just to be clear, if I mash at a higher temp, my OG will be higher and thus my FG will also be higher?

I too have an ugly corona mill that works great for me, although I'm wondering if my crush could be even finer. I'm going to try cranking it down even more for my next brew to see how that works out...
Click to expand...

FG is affected by the mash temps. SG and OG are affected by your sugar conversion and efficency. You could get 80% efficiency but mashed at a high temp, and have your FG end way higher than the target because there wasn't enough fermentable sugars to hit your target. Likewise you could get 60% efficiency and because you mashed lower, end with a much lower FG because there was more fermentable sugars.

A second crush may give you more fermentable sugars based on the temp you mash at because there is more surface area for sugar conversion on the kernels. The second crush will definitely help with efficiency. I went from low 60s to high 80s. Good luck!
 
Could it be the temperature in the room is higher than for the person who wrote the recipe?

A higher temperature will increase your hydrometer readings on both the OG and FG I think, right?
 
eulipion2 said:
doublebogey10,
Let's walk through this step by step.

  1. So you get your grains online, crushed by the retailer? It might be a good idea to get a mill. Some shops have wider gaps than others and (especially online shops) aren't willing to adjust or double mill. I have a Barley Crusher and use the default mill gap.

    Crushed by retailer.
  2. When you mash, do you stir and check temps frequently?

    I check temps and stir about every 20 minutes during a 60-minute mash
  3. Do you mash-out around 168-170 for 15 minutes?

    After 60 minute mash, I add flame and stir around until 170 (stirring mostly to keep bottom of the bag off the bottom).
  4. Do you squeeze or sparge?

    No sparge. I squeeze but not excessively.
  5. Is your boil-off percentage correctly factored?

    I start with ~5.5 gallons. After absorption and burnoff, I am putting between 3 and 3.5 into 5-gallon carboy. When I rack to secondary (usually for dry-hopping, I am putting right at 3 gallons after leaving trub in primary.
Click to expand...

I referenced my Double IPA. Some notes on that when I brewed it:
Mashed in at 158. After stirring and settling, I put the lid on at 153 degrees. Checked at 20 minutes and was at 152.1, stirred and recovered. Checked 20 minutes later and was at 149. Stirred, applied flame back up to 153. Killed flame. Covered. 20 minutes later, applied flame and stirred until 168 when I pulled the grains. Squeezed and let drip while bringing to a boil. Put grain bag in bucket and later squeezed again and added those runnings to the boil.

Thanks for the thoughts on all of this. I don't know that I fully understood higher mash temp=higher finish/lower mash temp=lower finish.
Looks like I'm back to the obvious culprit: crush.

So, if I invest in a mill, can I get by with something as simple as this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000U5NZ4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

FInally, a note on that recipe. It's a great beer. If you brew it, Use a cleaner yeast like WLP001 or something like that. I tried the London ESB because I'd heard that's what Lagunitas uses and wanted to see how it would come out. It was fine. But I think this beer will be better with A) better efficiency and B) a cleaner yeast.

Thanks again and Cheers!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
doublebogey10 said:
Mashed in at 158.
Click to expand...
I definitely recommend adding grains near your mash temp (153) then reheating back up to just under mash temp. Trust me, it'll get there. I'd check temps every 15 min or so.

So, if I invest in a mill, can I get by with something as simple as this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000U5NZ4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Click to expand...
I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that Charlie Papazian still uses a Corona mill, so why not? The default gap on a Barley crusher is .039", and I've seen a lot of people say they adjust it to .035". Not sure what the equivalent on a Corona mill is or how to measure, but give it a go. You'll still make beer :mug:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oh, and are you boiling off to get a certain volume (say, with a sight glass)? I think if that's how you're measuring, you might want to squeeze the grain more. That way you have more sugar in a given volume, thus better efficiency.
 
So I've done 5 AG BIAB batches and am loving it. I'm brewing smaller batches, but more often because I love the entire process more than extract brewing. So thanks for this incredible resource.

Anyway, all five batches have been between 1.067-1.075 starting gravity and I've gotten around 75% efficiency for the last few (around 70% for the first one when I was still learning). Now I want to brew a 1.100 beer, but I've heard there may be a drop in efficiency. Is there any rule of thumb of what drop in efficiency I can expect so I can plan the recipe around that? Or should I just plan for 75% and see what I get and then use that in the future?
 
mtnagel said:
... Now I want to brew a 1.100 beer, but I've heard there may be a drop in efficiency. Is there any rule of thumb of what drop in efficiency I can expect so I can plan the recipe around that? Or should I just plan for 75% and see what I get and then use that in the future?
Click to expand...

I think one of the biggest problems with a big grain bill is actually lifting the bag! Will you be doing all-malt, or adding extract, sugar, or syrup? If all-malt, yeah, you'll probably have a bit lower efficiency. I shot for 1.100 with my standard efficiency on a recent brew and hit 1.095 or so. Not a terrible loss of efficiency.
 

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