Why is my beer better when bottled with oats?

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oldschool

oldschool

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Okay, I'm just getting in to this wonderful hobby. Got my first batch of brew done (porter w/ wy london ale) a few weeks ago. I had heard a guy say that people will put a few flaked oats in their bottles when they cap them. So i tried it on two of them. they turned out a lot better tasting than the bottles without oats. It took some of the dry aftertaste and coffee flavor out and just overall made them more mellow. What is the oats doing to my beer and why doesn't it taste as well without them? thanks

:tank:
 
Interesting. The addition of oats adds relatively long-chain carbohydrates, a bit of protein, a few lipids, and perhaps a tiny tiny amount of flavor. This would be perceived by the taster as fuller in the mouthfeel and could have the effect of "taking the edge off" a harsh beer. One could achieve a similar effect by using a higher mash temperature or a less-attenuative yeast.
 
First of all i didn't mash with the oats...simply added 5 dried oats like quaker, to two of my bottles when i capped them because i didn't know what the outcome would be. and i didn't sanitize anything..not only are they dried, but the 6.0%+/- alc took care of any contamination. so the oats arn't adding any carbs or protein to speak of.
 
The effect may be psychosomatic. Do a blind tasting with some friends who have a solid grasp of beer styles.

Adding oats at bottling time really sounds like a poor practice. If you want to add the slick mouthfeel and slight flavor of oats to a brew, you need to add the oats during the mash, not during conditioning.
 
I agree that it is poor practice, but i do not agree that the taste is due to the placebo effect. It obviously took away the dry after taste of the beer. Is dryness due to the type of yeast? or otherwise
 
I still don't know how you can be sure that the oats did anything. Can you taste the bottled version with oats side by side the same beer un-oated? I'll bet it has more to do with the beer just conditioning.
 
Interesting.......

I'll pop a few in some bottles in one of my next brews and do the blind taste test thing.

BoB

PS I don't worry about infection as much as everyone else. Before I knew about infection I used to stick my finger into the head of every single bottle to "pop"the foam and aid in filling. Never had a bottle infection and that was back in college, when my fingers were definitely not clean.:cross:
 
oldschool said:
i didn't sanitize anything..not only are they dried, but the 6.0%+/- alc took care of any contamination.
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Can't be too sure here. The souring bacteria of a beer such as a Berliner Weisse is generally introduced post fermentation, and the source of the bacteria is sometimes raw grain because it is such a nutrient rich environment for the little buggers.

As far as flavor changes from 5 little flakes of oats, meh, but yea or nay I do like the addition of oats to certain styles, stouts in particular.
 
I don't have scientific data backing up me saying that the oats did anything, only my taster and my friends..and yes they were side by side on the way to town last saturday evening. we were both really amazed at the difference...it was extremely noticable! try it..what can it hurt? ruining one beer?
 
even if the oat thing isn't safe...the beer was very not spoiled and tasted great. i will probably try it agin to see if i have the same results.
 
You are probably going to end up with bottle bombs doing this. Lactobacillus will be all over a raw unsanitized grain of oat, and probably other stuff too. Over time they will ferment out additional sugars leftover and make the bottles explode, its a bit of a mess to clean up and after a while it is going to dramatically alter (towards being a very sour beer) the flavor of the beer. I would stop this practice completely without hesitation.

If you like the flavor the oat is giving you, you should experiment with putting oat in your recipes, they can give certain beer styles a particularly interesting twist ie porter/stout/etc.
 
oldschool said:
I agree that it is poor practice, but i do not agree that the taste is due to the placebo effect. It obviously took away the dry after taste of the beer. Is dryness due to the type of yeast? or otherwise
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Chalk it up to the placebo effect or pure coincidence but the only thing you are adding to your beer by dumping in 5 oat flakes in the bottle is potential trouble. Fully agree with Yuri here in that it is certainly poor practice. First, all grains harbor lots of bacteria. They aren't harmful but they can inoculate an infection causing at best off flavors and at worst bottle bombs. Second, oats or any other unmalted grain is basically a collection of starches, proteins, lipids and assorted other minor ingredients. You don't want the proteins and lipids in your beer and unless the starches are converted to fermentable sugars they are only going to sit there and do nothing with the possilbe exception of clouding your beer. Third, there isn't enough on anything in the mass of five oat flakes to do much good assuming any of the potential bad things do happen.

If the process pleases you and you like the beer then go ahead an continue the practice but if you are looking for validation or any logical reason to do it I have none. :mug:
 
Well I think i'll take the advise you all have given me and not do it again. But i may try mashing oats in my next porter. thanks for the input.

happy brewing!
 
saq said:
You are probably going to end up with bottle bombs doing this. Lactobacillus will be all over a raw unsanitized grain of oat, and probably other stuff too. Over time they will ferment out additional sugars leftover and make the bottles explode, its a bit of a mess to clean up and after a while it is going to dramatically alter (towards being a very sour beer) the flavor of the beer. I would stop this practice completely without hesitation.

If you like the flavor the oat is giving you, you should experiment with putting oat in your recipes, they can give certain beer styles a particularly interesting twist ie porter/stout/etc.
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Not that I'm in favor of adding anything at bottling, but the lacto scare "shouldn't" be something I'd worry about. Naturally occuring strains of Lactobacillus has an alcohol tolerance somewhere around 3% (Wyeast has a blend that goes to 8%, but it's engineered that way). So as long as your brew is stronger than that, you shouldn't have a problem with lacto bottle bombs.
 
cimirie, how is your fat tire clone? I have that in my primary right now. what what your OG? mine was 1.056. maybe a "little" on the high side but it'll do.
 
oldschool - to be honest, I don't have much to share with you. My LBHS didn't have or know what caraRed was (my recipe called for it) so I substituted flaked wheat for it (it was a fairly sizable portion of my grainbill). When I got home and found that caraRed was a crystal malt, I got upset and didn't care about recording my numbers (OK, so I was pouting).

Having said all that, it tasted pretty good at bottling time. If I remember correctly, my recipe laid out the OG somewhere in the low to mid 50s, so your 56 sounds about where I was aiming. Once I taste it after conditioning, I'll let you know!
 
so you are strictly all grain? how long have u been at it? I have yet to make that step but hope to pretty soon. i guess i'm a little intimidated and dreading forkin out the cash for the extra equipment. can u post a pic of your setup?
 
oldschool said:
Well I think i'll take the advise you all have given me and not do it again. But i may try mashing oats in my next porter. thanks for the input.

happy brewing!
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oldschool,

Don't let the masses shout you down. You tried something new and you got a good result. Great! This is how things get invented. You also introduced your results to the masses, and since it's against the known theory, you received push-back and skepticism. Even better! Now reproduce the experiment, and hopefully some of your peers will reproduce the experiment (I will) and we will see if the results are consistently repeatable. It's inspiration meets science! Go for it!:rockin:

You're not talking about making a 50million gigawatt Tesla coil that is going to destroy the planet here. Even the bottle bomb theory is being debated for its legitimacy and in your first experiment you didn't experience Hiroshema-beer did you? Even if you discover that 5 oat flakes = Hiroshema-beer then you've learned something. If oats are that powerful perhaps we'll all start carbing our bottles by adding one flake and save messing with corn sugar. :D

Go do it again man! Run with scissors while you're at it. :ban:

BrewOnBoard
 
That was some of the most optimistic information i've heard. and yes you are right i didn't have either one of the bottles explode nor did it seem to be more carbed than the others. are you saying you are open minded enough to try it yourself?
 
Seriously, take the plunge. I didn't really get it when ppl told me to do it and how much better it was. So, I'm not gonna try to explain it to you. Dont' think about it, just do it. As to the cash... Sure you're gonna spend some money on the 10 gallon MLT, but you don't have to do everything all at once.

I brew with a buddy of mine, and he's got a kick-ass setup with a 12 gallon boil pot and all the trimmings. I'll brew with him once a month. But at home, I don't have the space or the equipment he has. BUT, I have a 10 gal MLT (coleman cooler with a stainless steel braid) and i use my 5 gallon boil pot. I make 4 gallon batches but add 1 gallon right before pitching the yeast so I'm really only collecting and boiling 4 gallons down to 3. Right now, this works for me (as long as I don't do any really big beers).

Long story short, I can do batches dirt-cheap and the only extra cost I've incurred is the $50 for making my MLT. I've started washing my yeast so I'm spending on average for a 4 gallon batch $15-18. You'll make up the cost of the setup over time. But really, it's just more fun making it from scratch.
 
oldschool said:
That was some of the most optimistic information i've heard. and yes you are right i didn't have either one of the bottles explode nor did it seem to be more carbed than the others. are you saying you are open minded enough to try it yourself?
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Heck yeah, why not? Innovation is a good thing. Besides what have I got to loose? I'm not nearly as superstitious about infection. I've brewed dozens of 15gal batches in the past and you wouldn't believe the stuff I did to them at bottling time. Heck, I didn't even know brewing was supposed to be sanitary. I'd overfill a bottle, drink off the top couple oz and then cap it... the list goes on.

The only 2 beers that went bad on me were 1) a bottle that the mechanical washer failed to remove the slug from. and 2) a bottle that the mechanical washer somehow failed to remove a cigarette butt from. BTW, that was the last time I brewed for a friend and lent him my bottles!

I'll put in 4 bottles or so and have someone else swap the beers around so I don't know which is which so that I can do blind tasting.

BoB
 
what does he use for a boil kettle? I've seen a bunch of guys that use aluminum kegs(which i'm totally opposed to doing) and where is the best/cheapest place to get your malts?
 
he's got a stainless boil kettle. I know there's a stigma attached to aluminum boil kettles, but I've met enough award-winning homebrewers who only use aluminum, that I've seen the light. I'd rather use stainless I think, but keggles are cheaper and are just as effective. Now if you're against it for moral reasons (as in who actually owns the keg), that's a different debate.

As far as malts go, my local homebrew store has OK prices. Austin Homebrew online is cheaper, but when you add shipping in they come out to roughly the same price unless I ship multiple batches. Look around at your local homebrew stores. grains usually run between 1.25 and 2.00 per pound. Some of the real specialized ones (roasted barley or special B) can be more than that, but not usually.
 
I'll put in 4 bottles or so and have someone else swap the beers around so I don't know which is which so that I can do blind tasting. BoB[/QUOTE said:
If you end up doing this, send me a pm to let me know your findings. you said that you made 15 gallon batches...what do you use to cook them off? where do you get your malts?
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cimirie said:
he's got a stainless boil kettle. I know there's a stigma attached to aluminum boil kettles, but I've met enough award-winning homebrewers who only use aluminum, that I've seen the light. I'd rather use stainless I think, but keggles are cheaper and are just as effective. Now if you're against it for moral reasons (as in who actually owns the keg), that's a different debate.

I've read multiple things about cooking in Al not pertaining to beer. but I'm thinking i may have one fab'd up at a local sheet metal shop, or at least have one quoted. my closest homebrew store is an hour away so i'm probably better off just ordering them. the reason i got interested in this is the lower cost of good beer but now i like it for other reasons. so i'm always looking for the best price.
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oldschool said:
If you end up doing this, send me a pm to let me know your findings. you said that you made 15 gallon batches...what do you use to cook them off? where do you get your malts?
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That was when I used to do my brewing at a place that had all the gear and equipment on premises. We just showed up, used their fancy steam-jacketed copper boil kettles and their ingredients, paid our fee and come back 2-4 weeks later to bottle our already kegged beer.

I've very recently returned to the world of brewing (on my sailboat this time) and without all the fancy equipment. It's a little more trying this time around, but more rewarding.

BoB
 
oldschool said:
hmm. it does sound a little more difficult. D you live on your boat?
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Yup. I live aboard with my boat-hottie and my cat. The folks here have been great at helping me streamline my equipment and process so that it doesn't take up the whole boat. I'm still refining my process for sure. I feel like quite the noob despite the fact that I've brewed several dozen batches before that turned out fantastic. I never realized how much the owner did behind the scenes.

BoB
 
kegs arnt aluminum.

and yeah experimenting is great
but dont forget there already has been alot of experimenting done, dont turn your back on the known wisdom after you understand the fundamentals then you can push the boundrys.
we have science and microbiology we know what and why and how these things work.
adding and oat or 5 or 10 or a grain of wheat or a kernal of corn or a hafe eatting candy bar thats been in your back pock all day is simply adding a food source that is covered in microbes to your beer that will most assuredly shorted the shelf life of your beer.
how crappy would it be to find an old bottle of homebrew a real gem and crack it open only to find out you have malt vinegar.
 
I'm amazed that I appear to be the first to point this out, but dried oatmeal flakes are very, well, absorbent. It's quite possible there is something they're absorbing out of the beer. Just a theory, but the only real one I've heard so far. I'm really not sure the lipids/etc from five flakes are going to add anything.

As far as all the comments about mashing oatmeal instead of adding it at the end, I would say those are two completely separate processes that act in completely different ways, so don't try to substitute one for the other.
 
i like hedgie's response. and my thought was that it was somewhat absorbent. and i may add that this porter was not aged and had a not aged taste without the oats. no matter what they say about infection risks i have not noticed any in three weeks at 70 degrees.
 
Infections take longer than 3 weeks when infectuous populations start out at such small levels. Keep one for a few months and then open it up and tell us.

Lactobacillus, Pediococous, Acetobacter etc are all very slow and those are just common ones that like to live in beer. There are a lot more different nasties that can get in that will take longer to ruin your beer and turn it into vinegar.

Brewing, bottling, and aging beer is something that has been done for a long long long time, if this were something that was a good idea everyone would know about it because someone probably tried it at a brewery in London or Germany 600-800 years ago and it ruined beer because its a massive vector for infection. Things that DID promote longer shelf life and stabilized flavors in beer are things that spread VERY rapidly in the industry. When hops were discovered to do good things to beer and especially longer shelf life nearly the entire brewing world adopted this very rapidly (relatively speaking).

Even modernly speaking, there are brewing scientists who do research all the time for different things both natural and more synthetic to help improve brewing and beer in different ways. Brewing beer isn't a mystery, its science and things like infections and sanitation are fundamental. Adding raw oats is an unsanitary practice that WILL ruin your beer over enough time.
 
saq said:
Infections take longer than 3 weeks when infectuous populations start out at such small levels. Keep one for a few months and then open it up and tell us.

Lactobacillus, Pediococous, Acetobacter etc are all very slow and those are just common ones that like to live in beer. There are a lot more different nasties that can get in that will take longer to ruin your beer and turn it into vinegar.

Brewing, bottling, and aging beer is something that has been done for a long long long time, if this were something that was a good idea everyone would know about it because someone probably tried it at a brewery in London or Germany 600-800 years ago and it ruined beer because its a massive vector for infection. Things that DID promote longer shelf life and stabilized flavors in beer are things that spread VERY rapidly in the industry. When hops were discovered to do good things to beer and especially longer shelf life nearly the entire brewing world adopted this very rapidly (relatively speaking).

Even modernly speaking, there are brewing scientists who do research all the time for different things both natural and more synthetic to help improve brewing and beer in different ways. Brewing beer isn't a mystery, its science and things like infections and sanitation are fundamental. Adding raw oats is an unsanitary practice that WILL ruin your beer over enough time.
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Not to mention one that can kill you and others, botulinus.
 

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