Switchcraft's plug and outlet option

I had the same issue as I ordered the 41F1's. No matter what size female connector you get I still think you are going to have to solder and shrink wrap the connections in order to feel any kind of security using these plugs/receptacles. I love them personally, as thy are small, easy to use, and a heck of a lot cheaper than the nema plugs. The down side is that they are a lot of work to put together. Here are some pics of my element receptacle. I did the same thing to go from wall receptacle to spa panel, spa panel to control panel, and control panel to element.

Jbnla,
Do you think that you received the non "fast-on" type? That's what it sounds like; could you post a photo? I agree shrink wrap should be used regardless.

They are both Fast-on, one is the more common .250", and that one is the .187" (harder to find terminals for ). The proper size faston on should be pretty secure, although as these aren't designed as AC connectors (I'm not arguing against their use) the separation between conductors isn't as much as it usually is. With the larger .250" terminals they had to put plastic separators because they're closer together. If you look at AC rated connectors they have much more for separation between terminals so as already mentioned you should probably heat shrink them to be safe.

HPCP41F HPC Panel Mount Receptacle, Rectangular, .140" Diameter Countersunk Mounting Holes, .100" Flange Depth / .250" Faston Terminals

HPCP41F1 HPC Panel Mount Receptacle, Rectangular, .140" Diameter Countersunk Mounting Holes, .100" Flange Depth / .187" Faston Terminals

Click to expand...

If you've got the $$ I find the PowerCON connectors are much nicer. (I bought switchcraft for my elements and got some 20A powercon for the pumps).

runs4beer said:

Jbnla,
Do you think that you received the non "fast-on" type? That's what it sounds like; could you post a photo? I agree shrink wrap should be used regardless.

Click to expand...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99911&stc=1&d=1360426625

Thanks for all the replies. Here is what I ordered. I believe I should have ordered HPCP41F instead of HPCP41F1. If you agree you may make the change in your OP for others. Thanks for your excellent instructions.

smittygouv30: much thanks that gives me confidence and I am just going to use 120V not 240V.

jbnla said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99911&stc=1&d=1360426625

Thanks for all the replies. Here is what I ordered. I believe I should have ordered HPCP41F instead of HPCP41F1. If you agree you may make the change in your OP for others. Thanks for your excellent instructions.

smittygouv30: much thanks that gives me confidence and I am just going to use 120V not 240V.

Click to expand...

I'm glad I have given you confidence but why only use for 120v and not the 240v. These things are fantastic as long as your realize that they are a little bit of work to install safely/correctly. I happen to enjoy the process of building brewing equipment almost as much as brewing itself, so for me it wasn't that big of a deal.

I had never soldered electrical before but with with a few quick searches I bought the correct electrical solder (60/40) and flux and connected the fast-on to the blades without issues. I use this for all 240v connections. Soooo, don't be scurrr'd

Corey

jbnla said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99911&stc=1&d=1360426625

Thanks for all the replies. Here is what I ordered. I believe I should have ordered HPCP41F instead of HPCP41F1. If you agree you may make the change in your OP for others.

Click to expand...

You might be right now that I look around at other places but it's weird when I look at my Amazon order history I order HPCP41F1 from parts express and got the ones wanted... when I get to a pc and can edit my post I will. Sorry for the confusion.

Picture of one finished element with Switch Craft Fast-On "Pig Tail" solution: (If anyone else has done this yet, I certainly haven't seen it.)

Here's a close-up of the SwitchCraft connector:


Here's the two elements and power cable all in a single shot:



can you explain the triclover elements? how do they install and how did build them? thx

Hey Runs4beer,

Can you post pictures of your control panel? I'm interested in building something like it but was wondering how you laid your out.

I have been thinking about the question of how to make sure you don’t plug the power cable into the element socket or vice versa. I think that if you go by any of P-Js wiring diagrams there won’t be a catastrophic problem because there is a contactor separating the elements from the rest of the control panel and if you apply voltage to the element side of the contactor there is nowhere for current to flow so no harm is done. Likewise, plugging the element plug into the power input will do nothing. You will know you done it the wrong way when nothing happens.
Now please tell me if I’m wrong on this because I’m about to build a control panel using these plugs.

runs4beer said
"I power my control panel with a 16 foot run of 10/4 SOOW Neoprene-Jacketed Power Cable from a spa panel that is hangs on the wall of my brewery."
Did you have a problem getting the 10/4 to go into the plug cover? If so, how did you solve it?

Handsaw said:

runs4beer said
"I power my control panel with a 16 foot run of 10/4 SOOW Neoprene-Jacketed Power Cable from a spa panel that is hangs on the wall of my brewery."
Did you have a problem getting the 10/4 to go into the plug cover? If so, how did you solve it?

Click to expand...

It might be a week or so before you get a response. Runs4beer is on vacation.

Thanks

SpartyParty said:

Picture of one finished element with Switch Craft Fast-On "Pig Tail" solution:

(If anyone else has done this yet, I certainly haven't seen it.)

Here's a close-up of the SwitchCraft connector:

Here's the two elements and power cable all in a single shot:

can you explain the triclover elements? how do they install and how did build them? thx

Click to expand...

Those are pics of my build.
The Triclovers are from "StillDragon" they call them "Element Guard Kits": http://www.stilldragon.com/element-guard-kit-and-adapters.html

They're 2" triclamps (compatible with 1/2" clamps and valves) and normal camco NPT electric elements just screw into them. I then used food grade silicone to help the seal.
-I'd highly recommend the harder-to-find pure stainless elements.)

I'd also recommend throwing away the copper wire connectors that still dragon gives you because they're just outright dangerous even with their cheap heat shrink tubing you can end up with super dangerous hot shorts.


Adam

Handsaw said:

runs4beer said
"I power my control panel with a 16 foot run of 10/4 SOOW Neoprene-Jacketed Power Cable from a spa panel that is hangs on the wall of my brewery."
Did you have a problem getting the 10/4 to go into the plug cover? If so, how did you solve it?

Click to expand...

10/4 wire will fit into the plug cover itself, you just have to remove the rubber gasket that comes installed inside of them by default.

The outer ring that you screw down to the cable won't go over the 10/4 neoprene cable that Home Depot sells; I used a wood chisel to just scrape out the inside and make the hole slightly larger. It will make your hands hurt the next day but it takes maybe 3 minutes per adapter. (As someone else said this solution requires additional labor, although its cheaper.)



Adam

Handsaw said:

runs4beer said
"I power my control panel with a 16 foot run of 10/4 SOOW Neoprene-Jacketed Power Cable from a spa panel that is hangs on the wall of my brewery."
Did you have a problem getting the 10/4 to go into the plug cover? If so, how did you solve it?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the out of office reply J, sadly I'm back

It took a little work but not much, 3 minutes is about right. I smoothed the in side of the plug body with a rotary tool's (like a Dermal) sanding drum but a round or half round file would work well. I did this just to smooth the in side not to remove any major amounts of plastic. Then I shaped the edge of the neoprene jacket to kill the corner from where it was cut and a little oil and it slid right in. Not much work at all, also make sure the cord is round, it can come off the roll oval in places, if it is oval it can be taped round with a hammer just make sure it's not really cold.

Kayakr1988 said:

Hey Runs4beer,

Can you post pictures of your control panel? I'm interested in building something like it but was wondering how you laid your out.

Click to expand...

Snapped a few low res phone camera shots of my control case (really not a panel I guess). I used PJ's "no contacter" diagram which I can email you if you don't know the one. Again this is from my phone... does everyone get that "application has crashed..." when they try to post images from the mobile app?

If you were using contacters then you'd need to make a back mounting plate of some sort. Part of the reason it all worked our so well for me is I used the door mounted 25a on-off-on selector switch from Granger. I have a detailed parts list that I can email as well. Just pm your email address.

.

jbnla said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99911&stc=1&d=1360426625

Thanks for all the replies. Here is what I ordered. I believe I should have ordered HPCP41F instead of HPCP41F1. If you agree you may make the change in your OP for others. Thanks for your excellent instructions.

smittygouv30: much thanks that gives me confidence and I am just going to use 120V not 240V.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry you are right:

The (incorrect) item number on the OP is not the one I used.
HPCP41F has Faston 0.250" termination and accept the more readily available available in 10 awg faston connections.

...and now I can no longer edit my OP... After you posted your question I now remember having conflicting info. on the part numbers when doing this write up so I pulled up Amazon order history and because I got what I wanted I used that item number and didn't double check...:smack::smack:

HERE where you can see the different termination sizes listed.

again... sorry, I suck.

runs4beer said:

I'm sorry you are right:

The (incorrect) item number on the OP is not the one I used.
HPCP41F has Faston 0.250" termination and accept the more readily available available in 10 awg faston connections.

...and now I can no longer edit my OP... After you posted your question I now remember having conflicting info. on the part numbers when doing this write up so I pulled up Amazon order history and because I got what I wanted I used that item number and didn't double check...:smack::smack:

HERE where you can see the different termination sizes listed.

again... sorry, I suck.

Click to expand...

No worry smittygouv30 gave me all I needed to use the one I got. Your switchcraft plugs have been a major new contribution. Thanks. I would still love to see how you changed from you Jbox to something else.

So, just to spell it out , we need the:

502-HPCC4F (cord plug)
502-HPCP41F (Panel mount outlet)

theknub said:

So, just to spell it out , we need the:

502-HPCC4F (cord plug)
502-HPCP41F (Panel mount outlet)

Click to expand...

Yes that is correct

For what's its worth (and this might be common sense) make sure you use flat bolts/screws for the receptacle in order to allow the plug to "snap-in". I initially used rounded bolts and was so confused as to why I couldn't get the plug to snap-in place. I realized that the rounded bolt was preventing the plug for penetrating deep enough to lock in place.

-Corey

Pictures are of the flat screws that allow the plug to lock in.

I used aluminum 1/8" rivets instead of screws. They look a little cleaner than screws, I used them for the xlr panel mount as well.

i got mine and am very close to wrapping up my build. however, i have the xerox copier gfci and the compression nut even had issue slipping over some of the wires. knowing how much i'd have to "chisel out" to slip it on, i went ahead and just bought a locking plug and receptacle. on the plus side, no confusion about what is what and an accidental plug in... just need to wait a few days for them to come on.

on the downside, waiting some more.

love this recommendation though. thanks.

Has anyone contacted Switchcraft and asked them whether this is a suitable application for these plugs and sockets? I am rather dubious myself.

You mean besides this, found on page 1 of the same thread you're replying to?

jeffmeh said:

We beat this around quite a bit in the https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/show-us-your-element-housings-pots-how-did-you-do-212079/ thread. Runs4beer did get this answer directly from Switchcraft: "The connectors are rated for 50 A (for the Fast-on terminal type) and 1500 VAC rms. There should be no problem with the customer's application."

Here's what I posted in the other thread:

Switchcraft certainly stands behind using the HPC (High Power Connector) series for this type of use. In addition to the email cited above, from the product sheet:

Markets
• Loudspeakers
• Power audio amplifiers
• Medical
• Process Controls

From the specs:

High Power Connector, 30 A Current Rating, Silver-Plated over Copper Alloy Contact Material
30 A Rating Per UL 1977 on PC Mount Versions
50 A Rating Per UL 1977 on Faston® Versions
1500 VAC (RMS)

Click to expand...

Neutrik, who appears to make the premium version of these connectors, specifically warns against use of their speakON connector for AC mains or power supply.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/stx-series/nlt4fx

They make a different, more robust version for power:
http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-32-a/

orangehero said:

Neutrik, who appears to make the premium version of these connectors, specifically warns against use of their speakON connector for AC mains or power supply.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/stx-series/nlt4fx

They make a different, more robust version for power:
http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-32-a/

Click to expand...

So, if I am not using them to supply the Main, but rather just power from box to element, I should be ok with the Switchcraft then?

Tim

Customer review not favourable compared to Neutrik products... FWIW.

http://reviews.parts-express.com/24...n-hpc-speaker-connectors-reviews/category.htm

Can't help feeling that powercon is the way to go. But I've ordered a couple of the Switchcraft HPCs to take a look.

I have both (20a powercon and speakon), the powerCON are much nicer connectors (and neutrik in general IMHO). But the difference in cost puts them in a different category when it comes to comparing them....

I bought my Powercon's off Ebay. It looks like the seller took the auction down but if you message them perhaps they could help you out. They are generic versions, but they're also a steal if you order a bunch. I got 7 sets for right around 30 bucks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370641946200

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290764950045

The Neutrik Powercon's have only 3 poles, correct?

jeffmeh said:

The Neutrik Powercon's have only 3 poles, correct?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Those cheap ebay ones are only the 20a ones iirc. Since they're generic they likely don't have the certifications either so your in the same boat as the switchcraft.

I've decided to go with Jeffmeh's suggestion of trying the Switchcraft HPC's on the power input side of the heating element housings. I will stick with L6-30R's for the power output from the control panel to the heating elements. For the 50A input to the control panel I might just use a pigtail.

Obviously, if I use these connectors I will be checking, double checking, triple checking which terminal connects to which. I feel uneasy about how easy it would be to mix up the terminals with lethal results. I am not familiar with the electrical code but surely on connectors that are intended for mains power the hot, neutral and ground terminals must be explicitly marked as such (as they are on the powercon connectors). Perhaps this is why the Switchcraft HPC connectors are not marketed for mains power use even though they fulfil the technical specifications (as far as I can tell). But it makes me slightly wary of the recommendation given by the Switchcraft engineer, via their customer service.

I'm on the fence, but I think there are definitely people out there who might conclude that for a few $ extra the powercon's are worth the peace of mind.

So, for 120v pumps could you use these as well?

Certainly although the 20A powercons are what I'd suggest. The price is similar.

It's only where you need more than 20A or all 4 wires that I would consider the Switchcraft connectors at all.

The big deal is to not plug or unplug them with the power on.
The big drawback for me is that they are tough to wire up with 12/3 stranded wire. I did it but I had to use a dremmel tool to enlarge the hole in the plug to get the cable through.

Powercon true1 connectors (limited to 16A) can be disconnected while live which is a really good feature. But not powercon 20A, powercon 32A, or the Switchcraft HPC connectors.

I got the Switchcraft HPC male and female connector in the mail yesterday. I am not particularly impressed with them. The male and female parts click together, not a satisfying clunk but the connection feels solid. The terminals are very close together, lack screw terminals, and the insulating barriers are extremely short, so insulated spade terminals are really the only way to go. I don't know how these can be recommended for 1500V and 50A.

My $0.02: They look and feel like the cheap Speakon knock offs they are.