Police steal homebrew equipment

Yakima 728
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Not defending any part of Chicago (okay, I am, I guess) but these people were under suspicion of making molotov cocktails to use in their protesting activities, at a NATO conference. This is one time that the police will not screw around with maybes. The owner of the equipment was opening his home to them, so he included himself in their activities, whatever they were.

Whether they were actually making anything illegal or dangerous, they were suspected, so their home was raided under legal pretense (the validity of which can be argued all day as I'm sure the suspects and thousands of readers will). This isn't a story of police seizing a guy's homebrew equipment because he's making beer. The story is biased toward the defendants for sure, and the part about the equipment being seized is just included to push the reader further in that direction.
 
I gotta go with Silver on this one. If the police don't have a warrant and you let them in your technically stupid to start with which is how the story makes it sound. They just dont randomly assume people are making molotov cocktails. There must have been a snitch, lead, or something to lead them in that direction. They probably just werent sure what was in the equipment and had to take it for testing. If its beer and they are cleared he will be entitled to get it back.
 
They said on the news here they were planning on attacking police, the mayors home, and obamas chicago campaign office.
 
Silver hit the nail on the head. The police do not just go all willy-nilly from door to door asking to search a residence. One thing that sticks out to me is one of the ones arrested lied about having a criminal history. The reporter found out and called him out. Do idiots like this not understand that their arrest records are PUBLIC? Plus, with the NATO conference in town, they will not hesitate to act on information about possible terrorist activity. And as 12many sated, if the owner of the equipment is cleared of wrongdoing, he will get his equipment back.
 
You all make some pretty good points. And I don't disagree on them. But I do believe that the cops knew full well that the carboys etc. we're filled with beer, not the ingredients for molotov cocktails, and seizing them was purely punitive in nature, and I highly doubt he'll get them back ( undamaged). If at all. And if he does get it back with the beer he'd be a complete idiot to drink it ;). But then again he was an idiot to let them in without a warrant in the first place, so if he ends up bottling Chicagos finest piss, then he deserves what he gets. :)
 
themadvaper said:
But I do believe that the cops knew full well that the carboys etc. we're filled with beer, not the ingredients for molotov cocktails, and seizing them was purely punitive in nature, and I highly doubt he'll get them back ( undamaged). If at all.
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How would they know that? You know that the stuff in carboys is usually beer, but the vast majority of the public has never brewed and would look at a carboy and think "WTF is in there?"
 
If they were planning on bombing they deserve what they got. I'm a fireman in the chicago area. Protesters have been bottling bodily fluids to throw at first responders.
 
So, if the police suspect me of being a protester, they can legally seize my car because it has gasoline in it?

I have no love for terrorist activities, but this sounds like a serious violation of due process.
 
When this first came out, it seemed like the cops were being crazy and accusing a home brewer. After more details have come out, the guys being charged were guests in the brewers home, the cops have been following these guys for a week or two, have recordings of them planning to ambush several locations, have evidence of them recruiting people to help with the attacks, and have evidence of them bringing back a gas can for the Molotov cocktails. If it was purely a case of ignorance on the cops, I don't think they would be coming out with these charges. I'm not saying the guys are guilty, who knows.... It just seems like it would have blown over if it was just Homebrewing.
 
Honestly, this story has nothing to do with homebrewing or beer at all, it's just how the news is framing it to get people to read the story. We might as well go to the Kwikset forums and talk about how the cops are against door latches because they went through the front door in a rough manner. :)
 
There were two informants in the group of people arrested, basically cops who nudged these people into conspiring when in fact it was really mostly these informants pushing them. It is how the state is intimidating activists and people they consider to be ideological enemies. This has been happening a lot more since 9/11 as they can use the public's fear of terrorism to fuel increasing cuts in civil liberties.

http://wagingnonviolence.org/2012/05/entrapment-of-cleveland-5-and-the-nato-3-is-nothing-new/
 
BrewKnurd said:
How would they know that? You know that the stuff in carboys is usually beer, but the vast majority of the public has never brewed and would look at a carboy and think "WTF is in there?"
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Well they do have a sense of smell don't they? I mean really. True, many people that aren't in the know may say wtf, but we're talking about cops that are "trained" to distinguish crack from meth or whatever, and you're telling me they can't smell beer brewing? Please.

I'm not on the side of these moron protesters either, especially if their is evidence that they were planning on bombing or Molotov cocktailing anybody, but I am for civil rights. And as I said if they were worried that it was really something explosive in nature they would have cleared the buildings and brought in special squads to remove this stuff. They weren't worried enough about it to have the bomb squad come in so they knew what it was.and as I said taking it was just punitive in nature.
 
themadvaper said:
Well they do have a sense of smell don't they? I mean really. True, many people that aren't in the know may say wtf, but we're talking about cops that are "trained" to distinguish crack from meth or whatever, and you're telling me they can't smell beer brewing? Please.

I'm not on the side of these moron protesters either, especially if their is evidence that they were planning on bombing or Molotov cocktailing anybody, but I am for civil rights. And as I said if they were worried that it was really something explosive in nature they would have cleared the buildings and brought in special squads to remove this stuff. They weren't worried enough about it to have the bomb squad come in so they knew what it was.and as I said taking it was just punitive in nature.
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Because it would be wise to start smelling random liquids in a residence that is possibly tied to some sort of terrorism activity...

You go right ahead.

And cops use chemical field tests to determine whether a suspected drug is a certain type or not. Otherwise, they seize it and send it to the lab.
 
themadvaper said:
Well they do have a sense of smell don't they? I mean really. True, many people that aren't in the know may say wtf, but we're talking about cops that are "trained" to distinguish crack from meth or whatever, and you're telling me they can't smell beer brewing? Please.
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1) what madvaper said.

2) you think the beer they were fermenting smelled like bud light? Because that's the beer the cop would most likely be used to smelling.

3) they have training to help with distinguishing drugs, if i had to guess they have zero training in distinguishing what fermenting beer looks and smells like.

themadvaper said:
I'm not on the side of these moron protesters either, especially if their is evidence that they were planning on bombing or Molotov cocktailing anybody, but I am for civil rights. And as I said if they were worried that it was really something explosive in nature they would have cleared the buildings and brought in special squads to remove this stuff. They weren't worried enough about it to have the bomb squad come in so they knew what it was.and as I said taking it was just punitive in nature.
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So then you think the cops call in the bomb squad whenever they go mow their lawn? You think they clear the local filling station because its full of something explosive in nature? Because that's the level of explosive required to make a molotov cocktail. I would think they would call in the bomb squad if they thought they were dealing with an actual bomb, or something that was going to explode on contact. Not simply a flammable liquid.
 
Doesn’t alcohol get mashed/femented in buckets before distilling????? Grain alcohol would make a great motov cocktail. Just saying......:D

Themadvaper – seriously you wouldn’t last one week as a policeman sniffing unknown liquids….LSD has no smell or taste and many policemen have made the taste test mistake on that one. They are currently following the Grateful Dead and they stopped touring years ago.:fro:
 
BrewKnurd said:
1) what madvaper said.

2) you think the beer they were fermenting smelled like bud light? Because that's the beer the cop would most likely be used to smelling.

3) they have training to help with distinguishing drugs, if i had to guess they have zero training in distinguishing what fermenting beer looks and smells like.

So then you think the cops call in the bomb squad whenever they go mow their lawn? You think they clear the local filling station because its full of something explosive in nature? Because that's the level of explosive required to make a molotov cocktail. I would think they would call in the bomb squad if they thought they were dealing with an actual bomb, or something that was going to explode on contact. Not simply a flammable liquid.
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Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on certain points.

1) I don't expect the cops to go and do a close up sniff test to try and identify it. But when brewing you certainly get a nice aroma of hops in the air. ( it's in the air at my place right now:) .

But that is neither here nor there. I didn't start this thread to bring up a big controversy. I merely thought it interesting due to the nature of what "I" consider to be legalized theft.

I do appreciate al of the differing opinions that this thread has brought to light.


Just one other point of clarification. I am not a cop, but from what I've observed on the many tv episodes I've seen, whenever their is volatile , or suspected volatile chemicals, they generally bring in a specialy trained team all suited up in hazmat gear to ensure the safety of everyone concerned. I'm sure budget, city, town, state all play a part in how this is handled. But it just seemed to me that they weren't concerned enough about it to call in these special units. ( if they have them).
 
MaxOut said:
Doesn’t alcohol get mashed/femented in buckets before distilling????? Grain alcohol would make a great motov cocktail. Just saying......:D

Themadvaper – seriously you wouldn’t last one week as a policeman sniffing unknown liquids….LSD has no smell or taste and many policemen have made the taste test mistake on that one. They are currently following the Grateful Dead and they stopped touring years ago.:fro:
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Your right, I wouldn't make it one hour as a policeman. But not because I'm nieve enough to go around sniffing and tasting crap I don't know anything about. Please give me a little more credit than that. I wouldn't make it because I know how crooked many of them are.

I disagree with many of the stupid things they lock people up for, and waste my hard earned tax dollars doing it.

Yes I think marijuana should be legalized on all levels for people that need it for medicinal purpose. So I would have a hard time enforcing many of the stupid revenue generating laws that are out there.
 
I have no love for the "occupy" mess that gets left for us working taxpayer to pay for as well as I despise police brutality and harassment. I cannot imagine the cops "stumbling" upon a group of people who were planning on assaulting people or inciting riots. I am glad to hear these idiots got caught.

Can any person of decent intelligence truly believe that anyone would use homebrewing equipment to make molotov cocktails? I think gasoline would make a better and more efficient firebomb!
 
KevinW said:
Can any person of decent intelligence truly believe that anyone would use homebrewing equipment to make molotov cocktails? I think gasoline would make a better and more efficient firebomb!
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I was just been a smart ass hence the big smiley face but if I was making molotov cocktails a bottling bucket and bottles is exactly what I would use. Just saying.. I agree there is more to this case than we know.
 
KevinW said:
I have no love for the "occupy" mess that gets left for us working taxpayer to pay for as well as I despise police brutality and harassment. I cannot imagine the cops "stumbling" upon a group of people who were planning on assaulting people or inciting riots. I am glad to hear these idiots got caught.

Can any person of decent intelligence truly believe that anyone would use homebrewing equipment to make molotov cocktails? I think gasoline would make a better and more efficient firebomb!
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Agreed,

These occupy idiots are a drain on our taxpayer dollars. And who would believe that they would pay the high cost of carboys versus a bucket they would steal from a construction site. ;)
 
themadvaper said:
Your right, I wouldn't make it one hour as a policeman. But not because I'm nieve enough to go around sniffing and tasting crap I don't know anything about. Please give me a little more credit than that. I wouldn't make it because I know how crooked many of them are.


Very ignorant statement.
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HA! I just realized that i totally misreferenced. I mean what thatjonguy said, not what you said, when replying to you. I'm a doof. Oh well, I imagine you figured that out. :D

themadvaper said:
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on certain points.
Click to expand...

I'm good with that. :D
 
Let’s see if I have this correct. A group of your new "friends" are domestic terrorists and you brew beer. They are out planning on making molotov cocktails. You have bottling equipment. You have large glass jars filled with an unknown substance. You are a complete idiot and do not know your “friends” very well. The equipment gets seized after you invite your new “police” friends” in to meet your other out of town buddies. If your “friends” have much experience, they will sell you down the river and you were planning the stuff and not them. The beer thing was just a cover and you are in deep sh*t. Oh, the joys of home brewing.
 
Airborneguy said:
No, you're way off base. The cops stole that dudes equipment, straight up. :ban:
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That's why some people on this forum don't like cops. They're always stealing brew stuff while pretending to infiltrate domestic terror cells and many of them I know are corrupt. :)
 
The cops did not steal anything. It was siezed as evidence. Once it is no longer evidence, it will be returned. Unfortunately, the brew will not be good as they would not know to keep at temp (even if they had control of that). It likely will sit on a shelf of a property room until it is returned. You have to treat visiting police like vampires, do not invite them in. Do not step outside. BTW, my brother is one.
 
themadvaper said:
Your right, I wouldn't make it one hour as a policeman. But not because I'm nieve enough to go around sniffing and tasting crap I don't know anything about. Please give me a little more credit than that. I wouldn't make it because I know how crooked many of them are.

I disagree with many of the stupid things they lock people up for, and waste my hard earned tax dollars doing it.

Yes I think marijuana should be legalized on all levels for people that need it for medicinal purpose. So I would have a hard time enforcing many of the stupid revenue generating laws that are out there.
Click to expand...

1. That is a pretty general statement to make. I imagine you make this reference based on one or two articles you read on the internet. Police departments try to screen out the problems, but they still get through. Cops just get smeared in the media for doing any thing wrong regardless if they were on-duty or not. When was the last time you remember a banker getting called out in the news for being a drunken idiot at a bar; JUST because he is a banker?

2. Police are just required to enforce the laws that the legislators enact. The legislators that the public elects. Don't like a certain law? Call your local representive , because bitching about laws that you think are stupid on the internet does a whole lot. (Unless your local representive happens to read this.)

3. Everyone has their own view on medical marijuana, I think for certain medical conditions it is absolutely the best option. But for the guy with a broken finger... Progress on these things take time...I urge you to get involve with your local representives if you want something changed.

Also, some of the "revenue generating laws" don't generate as much money as one would think. All public incomes are public record, you just have to ask.

One last thing, if you do have REAL evidence that a specific police officer is crooked or dirty or whatever, tell someone that can fix the problem. Because if and when you ever need the police in an emergency, they will be there for you. So make sure that it is only those that want to serve and do it with honor and integrity.
 
TheBreweryUnderground said:
There were two informants in the group of people arrested, basically cops who nudged these people into conspiring when in fact it was really mostly these informants pushing them. It is how the state is intimidating activists and people they consider to be ideological enemies. This has been happening a lot more since 9/11 as they can use the public's fear of terrorism to fuel increasing cuts in civil liberties.

http://wagingnonviolence.org/2012/05/entrapment-of-cleveland-5-and-the-nato-3-is-nothing-new/
Click to expand...
This is the most important thing to take away from these false flag "terrorist" incidents. Government agencies are instigating and promoting terrorist activity, then swooping in at the last moment to save the day. If you can't believe it's happening, research all the thwarted terrorist attacks of the past 10 years. There's usually an "insider" or "informant" who was actually the one organizing and instigating the illegal activity.
 
thatjonguy said:
1.
One last thing, if you do have REAL evidence that a specific police officer is crooked or dirty or whatever, tell someone that can fix the problem. Because if and when you ever need the police in an emergency, they will be there for you. So make sure that it is only those that want to serve and do it with honor and integrity.
Click to expand...

I'd love to believe this is true, and in most cases it probably is. But they're not there for you in an emergency all the time. Los Angeles is currently undergoing an investigation where emergency calls had purposely delayed response times in order to get a budget increase. Stories about corruption are a nearly weekly occurrence in the (admittedly very biased) Los Angeles Times. Tell someone that can fix the problem? To be completely honest, most people are more afraid of retaliation than of corruption.
 
Cromwell said:
I'd love to believe this is true, and in most cases it probably is. But they're not there for you in an emergency all the time. Los Angeles is currently undergoing an investigation where emergency calls had purposely delayed response times in order to get a budget increase. Stories about corruption are a nearly weekly occurrence in the (admittedly very biased) Los Angeles Times. Tell someone that can fix the problem? To be completely honest, most people are more afraid of retaliation than of corruption.
Click to expand...

investigative journalists have to justify their salary, too.....
 
klyph said:
This is the most important thing to take away from these false flag "terrorist" incidents. Government agencies are instigating and promoting terrorist activity, then swooping in at the last moment to save the day. If you can't believe it's happening, research all the thwarted terrorist attacks of the past 10 years. There's usually an "insider" or "informant" who was actually the one organizing and instigating the illegal activity.
Click to expand...

so, the "non-thwarted" ones, the police just let happen, so seem legit? or.... :drunk:
 
motobrewer said:
so, the "non-thwarted" ones, the police just let happen, so seem legit? or.... :drunk:
Click to expand...

The police are more focused on bogus "potential suspects" so that they didn't notice days later a group of anti-racists breaking up a white supremacist meeting on the south side of Chicago. Something like 20 or so anti-racists beat this group of people up with clubs and hammers. I'm not at all for white supremacists but it seems like something police are on the lookout for.

I really appreciate this short piece on police: "No matter how good and upstanding of a person the individual police officer might be, the institution represents these problems and undercut the individual."
 

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