Battle over the "strange" name
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While I do not know the particulars of this situation, my guess is that this is about trademark laws.
If you do not proactively protect your trademark , your trademark can become universal property, and then anyone can use it.
The following where once all trademarked names, now anyone can use these names:
Aspirin,
Kerosene,
Zipper,
If you do not proactively protect your trademark , your trademark can become universal property, and then anyone can use it.
The following where once all trademarked names, now anyone can use these names:
Aspirin,
Kerosene,
Zipper,
They just might have, but the Grateful Dead have allowed people to use there trademarks and copyrights.
I know you use to be able to go to a Grateful Dead concert, set up a tri-pod and film them. That may have changed, corporate profits and all.
Thanks for linking that. I was able to go ahead and flag all the reviews left by people that clearly never did business with the store and are just trying to smear them over a trademark dispute. Clearly these people don't know the first thing about trademark law and that this store is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to defend their trademark. Well, you clearly don't understand the law either nor do most in this thread.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I flagged them as well. Those aren't reviews anyways, they're just a bunch of white knighting uninformed beer nerds.
There's always someone on here defending the *********, and you're that guy in this case.
Face it, the entire way the LHBS has handled this is 100% jackass. NEVER buy from them.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
What do you think the LHBS should have done?
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Define "work out a deal".
aubiecat
Well-Known Member
That is the vendors problem if they can't send merchandise to the right place.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I'm trying to figure out what type of deal you think they should work out.
I don't really see how a 15 year old homebrew shop would benefit from any sort of partnership with an upstart brewery more than halfway across the country. Not only that, but it seems to me like a lot of work to get it started, I imagine that paperwork would be fun. And, altering my daily business routine to accommodate someone who chose to use the same copyrighted name as me is not something I'd want to spend any time or effort on as a businessman.
Perhaps you'd care to enlighten me with your ideas.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I don't think you know what trolling is then.
I'm asking you to back up what you're saying is all. If you're going to be evasive about it, I'll just assume that you can't.
SteelString_Will
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Bovineblitz, how could a little paperwork not be better than all this ill will they are generating?
Although you are "obligated" if you wish to protect other copyrights and trademarks. You can also call them first and discuss.
However, Strange Brewing probably should have used google before setting up their business. Pretty surprised that whatever lawyer was filing their paperwork didn't google it and come to the conclusion that they should not call themselves that.
So, a little more foresight by Strange Brewing or a little more thoughtfulness on the part of Strange Brew (especially considering that his store name is a ripoff of two different things and he also rips off Grateful Dead for his logo) would have gone a long way.
Think I would no longer use his shop if I was in MA.
Although you are "obligated" if you wish to protect other copyrights and trademarks. You can also call them first and discuss.
However, Strange Brewing probably should have used google before setting up their business. Pretty surprised that whatever lawyer was filing their paperwork didn't google it and come to the conclusion that they should not call themselves that.
So, a little more foresight by Strange Brewing or a little more thoughtfulness on the part of Strange Brew (especially considering that his store name is a ripoff of two different things and he also rips off Grateful Dead for his logo) would have gone a long way.
Think I would no longer use his shop if I was in MA.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
The thing is, if you're going to enter some sort of partnership, what is the nature of that partnership? Just cross-promotion, how does that solve the problem at all?? Do both places have to alter their names? It's not just the paperwork (reworking copyrights can't be fun, or cheap), it's actually figuring out all the details that go into a business relationship... which begs the question, who in their right mind would enter into some sort of business partnership with someone they don't know?
If it's not a partnership type deal, what are you thinking of? Just allow them to continue as is? Strange Brewing made it quite clear they don't want to change their name.
I imagine that the LHBS just doesn't want to deal with it, they want business as usual. It's not their fault someone else infringed on their copyright. Being friendly about it might help, but even then, what kind of solution would be acceptable for everyone? It's pretty standard to just send a cease and desist letter and have that be the only communication, it's simple and doesn't get messy.
SteelString_Will
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Yeah, I can't argue much with that. But you have to see that this isn't the best way. Proving confusion is really difficult, even if there are cases of mild confusion before. It would have been helpful to give a heads up. Say, hey by the way you should have googled your intended name or something and I hate to do this but you'll be recieving a C and D.
Personally though, I think the cross promotion would have helped both businesses. Even if it is as simple as labeling some kits as Strange Brewing recipes and then placing a link on the Strange Brewing website. Contract would be really very simple. You wouldn't need to share profits or anything, just hammer out how long you have to cross promote. But there are some business leaders who believe that rising tides float all ships, and some that don't. And you can't change people's minds about it.
Strange should just change their name and move on.
Personally though, I think the cross promotion would have helped both businesses. Even if it is as simple as labeling some kits as Strange Brewing recipes and then placing a link on the Strange Brewing website. Contract would be really very simple. You wouldn't need to share profits or anything, just hammer out how long you have to cross promote. But there are some business leaders who believe that rising tides float all ships, and some that don't. And you can't change people's minds about it.
Strange should just change their name and move on.
First off, If I had the domain name, and copyright name, "strange brew", I would surely want to protect it, not because of some lame movie, but because of one of the greatest rock songs ever. The letter sent to the brewery was a standard cease and desist letter printed from the internet complete with insert name here, only to be signed by somebody with a law degree. They have not dragged the brewery through the dirt. The O.P.'s link is a local blog that would have never been found except for that link. The letter was sent to the brewery, not to the homebrewtalk members, so to go online and trash the lhbs without knowing what kind of business they run is wrong. Anybody with any knowledge about business or law, knows to always refuse the first offer.
I don't think people are arguing whether or not it's within his rights to send a C and D letter, and perhaps they are legally obligated to defend their trademark, but from what I've read on the internet, what they're doing is just bad for business.
Here's what it looks like:
1. C and D letter sent to Strange Brewing Company
2. Strange Brewing Company responded looking to reach a middle ground, or even work together instead of both parties spending tons of money on lawyers.
3. Strange Brew responded by saying "no, that's not good enough, change your name or we're suing you". They even called the brewing company a "directly competitive enterprise", which I don't understand, and accuses the brewing company of "hijacking" their trademark.
Apparently they've taken down their facebook page. People aren't saying you can't try to sue someone else for whatever you want, they're just saying it's stupid and you probably shouldn't.
neko
Well-Known Member
Grossy said:
I think filming grateful dead concerts ended when Jerry died.
When I was growing up there was a smoothie shop called Jamm'n Juice and Jamba Juice/Juice Club got all pissed off about it. They made them change the name and it was then Slamm'n Juice. I think it was a case of the tiny store not wanting to take on the huge company, but it shows that names don't even have to be the same to get this type of attention.
Here's a link with more details
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly/morgue/news/1996_Dec_20.JUICE.html
The HBS lawyer doesn't care about the coffee company and all the others because it is not a similar product like smoothies or beer (commercial vs homebrew).
I guess I can see both sides of the story, but why did it take 3.5 years from brewery domain registration to HBS noticing? Seems like he would be more vigilant if this is his response.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Lol. Nevermind that I've explained my thoughts and am willing to engage in actual discussion.
Looks like you're the troll.
Pretty funny stuff.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
On #2, that's kind of an insulting response, don't you think?
"You legally can't use this name, we've had it copyrighted for 15 years"
"Oh, okay. How about we put up a sign in our brewery with your website on it? Deal?"
That has nothing to do with the issue at hand, it's basically a brush off.
Everything else is speculation.
wegz15
Well-Known Member
Maybe the brew shop tried calling the brewery and the brewery said ”Sue me”. I could see how they are upset. Having shipments sent to the wrong address can delay supplies and make customers unhappy. The vendors probably have them both on the computer and just clicked on the wrong strange.
I also feel teaming up does not help the brew shop. They don't really have anything to gain. The brewery has more to gain there as they would get royalty from their recipe kits.
I also feel teaming up does not help the brew shop. They don't really have anything to gain. The brewery has more to gain there as they would get royalty from their recipe kits.
wegz15 said:
From everything I've read, first contact from brew shop was first letter in the story.
Completely disagree on the recipe kits. The brew shop has managed to get a total of 24 customers in Colorado in 16 years, showing that they effectively have little to no sales in that state. By having exclusive kits for a Colorado brewery that has won GABF awards, their sales in that state could jump.
There are definitely ways for the homebrew shop to gain customers here, but they've instead chosen to avoid any discussion of options, dismissing them out of hand. Kind of like a few people on this thread.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Who in their right mind would even name their LHBS or Brewery Strange Brew? That is the lamest thing about this whole deal.
Original? Anyone? Anyone?
Ok, Strange Brew it is!
Original? Anyone? Anyone?
Ok, Strange Brew it is!
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Exclusive recipe kits does not solve the problem of the brewery having an infringing name. What's your solution to that?
bovineblitz said:
Like I said before, I'm not feeding a troll. There's only a problem with the name if they're unwilling to work out a deal. You refuse to acknowledge any possibility of a deal, regardless of its merits. T-R-O-L-L
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
Legally, the brewery is infringing. There is almost no doubt in that assuming that his name really is trademarked for beer related goods.
Regardless of any deals or anything, even if this went to court the Brewery would lose and need to change their name.
Its unfortunate the guy who owns the trademark is such an ass, but he legally has the right to be.
FuzzeWuzze said:
Not disagreeing with the legalities, although the specific wording of the trademark would ultimately determine whether or not there's an infringement.
My point is that the homebrew shop has an opportunity to handle this differently, and would financially benefit from it. The way he's handling it now is costing him business, as homebrewers everywhere slam him for being a *********.
Except of course for the troll that refuses to acknowledge any other course of action as being an option. Maybe he's the owner...
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
First - you STILL are not addressing the issue of them having the same name. That's the issue - an 'agreement that's financially beneficial' doesn't help solve the core problem.
Second, I'm honestly trying to figure out how it would be financially beneficial for the shop to simply carry their recipe kits. The only thing you've said that makes sense to me is that the way it's being handled right now looks bad in the eyes of many people, which is fair. But, you don't know that these exclusive recipe kits are actually something that'd increase sales, hell for all we know they only sell brewers best kits at that store anyways (someone chime in if you know anything about the shop?). It seems like a very specific recommendation that's not very well thought out, is there a precedent for a smaller homebrew shop carrying specific recipe kits making a lot of money off of them? Or, are you just making assumptions?
It's not good business to invest in something based off assumptions and emotional knee-jerk reactions.
No point feeding you even further. You seemingly are incapable of putting two and two together, even though you seem to make wild assumptions and knee jerk reactions in defense of the homebrew supplier.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Wow, this guy.
I present a logical counter to what he says that he doesn't like, and his response is "LOL TROLL" as opposed to actual discussion where he spells out his point of view. I'd be more than happy to hear some actual discourse, examples, logic, etc... but he doesn't provide it, he just points fingers when he disagrees without so much as saying why. Well over half his posts in this thread are repeating himself and ironically calling me a troll.
I'll gladly continue to discuss this topic with anyone who's rational.
You aren't discussing anything, all you're doing is dismissing anything that's said different than you, and repeating yourself over and over. And over.
To recap, my opinion is that the homebrew shop owner should talk to the brewing company. To recap, your opinion is that nothing can solve the issue, so nobody should even talk about it.
Yep, you are a troll sir.
Unsubscribed, no point in participating in a thread with a bloviating bovine that thinks discourse is everyone else being wrong and he's the only one right.
To recap, my opinion is that the homebrew shop owner should talk to the brewing company. To recap, your opinion is that nothing can solve the issue, so nobody should even talk about it.
Yep, you are a troll sir.
Unsubscribed, no point in participating in a thread with a bloviating bovine that thinks discourse is everyone else being wrong and he's the only one right.
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