Aeration: Shaking vs. Aquarium Pump?

How many people out there shake their carboys to aerate the wort, versus using an aquarium pump or some other kind of O2 dispenser?

I just shake my carboys and I get good ferments. Home brew lore has it that a pump is better, but how much better will my beer be, really? Has anybody compared the two methods? Is there any empirical data to show that pump aeration is really superior?

IMO, as long as there is some O2 in the wort, I think fermentation temperature is probably more important than additional aeration in producing a good beer.

I always just shake my carboys and have never had a stuck ferment. Every brew always ferments all the way. I was looking into getting an O2 wand and start aerating. I just spoke with another experienced home brewer in which he stopped using O2 for it was causing off flavors in his brews. He went back to the shake method and has not had any problems since.

I would not bother doing the shaking ordeal. I would go with pure O2 it's quick and very effective. Some people use the pump with ok results too. I can only speak for my results and I have seen my fermentations improve a great deal sine I have been using pure O2.

I don't have any empirical evidence but my fermentations improved greatly when I went with the pump through an airstone and HEPA filter. My lag times increased slightly (due to way more yeast growth) but my fermentations were much quicker and more vigorous.

Not too mention I don't have to sit there and shake the bucket anymore. I can finish cleaning up while the aeration is running and then pitch and I'm done.

Well, this topic comes up quite often. Truth of it is you need to sufficiently aerate the wort no matter what method you choose. If a means other than injection or pumps work then so be it.

My method of choice has always been to strain my cooled wort, dumped from about a foot or so above the strainer into an aluminum 'tomato strainer'. Kind of a perforated cone. Not a fine mesh. The wort shoots out of the holes like hundreds of tiny little jets. When it is poured off, I have a big head of foam on the top of the beer in the fermentor. Never had a ferment problem using this method. Now, if that wasn't working for me I'd obviously have gone to some other method.

I'd add that a healthy colony of yeast will yield a higher quality beer because it isn't struggling through the ferment. As long as you are getting substantial aeration there is no need to worry imo.

anthrobe said:

I always just shake my carboys and have never had a stuck ferment. Every brew always ferments all the way. I was looking into getting an O2 wand and start aerating. I just spoke with another experienced home brewer in which he stopped using O2 for it was causing off flavors in his brews. He went back to the shake method and has not had any problems since.

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sounds like your experienced homebrewer buddy should have taken a closer look at his issues before declaring O2 the cause.....

on topic: I am getting good results with my aeration via wipping up the wort from 90 down to pitching temps, straining into the fermenter and the old shake like a polaroid method

brewt00l said:

sounds like your experienced homebrewer buddy should have taken a closer look at his issues before declaring O2 the cause.....

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Agreed -- if you are getting off flavours because of oxygenating, you are doing something very wrong in the process.

on topic: I am getting good results with my aeration via wipping up the wort from 90 down to pitching temps, straining into the fermenter and the old shake like a polaroid method

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If done properly, all three methods (shaking, pump aerating, and direct oxygenation) work very well. None is necessarily 'better' than the other. It all just comes down to convenience. Shaking a carboy takes about 5 minutes and some elbow grease. The pump is 'set and forget' for about 20 - 30 mins, plus a bit of clean-up. Oxygenation is about the same work as a pump, but only takes about 45 seconds of bubbling in the carboy.

I have done all three, and like the O2 system the best, because of its convenience. But at the homebrew scale, one won't be substantially better than another (except possibly in the case of a very high gravity beer where it is very tough to get O2 into solution -- that is when an O2 system tends to stand-out a bit).

Disclosure: I use the O2 system by Williams brewing with an O2 cannister.

That said, in the print version of HowtoBrew, Palmer talks about over oxygenating (not areation) and gives an example of an award winning brewer switching from such a system back to shaking (or maybe the pump with the filter).

The takeaway for me was to NOT over-aerate with the O2 system. In other words, don't leave it on indefinately. More is not better.

I just read this last week, so in the future, I will carefully monitor the time spent using the O2 system.

Maybe it exists and I haven't seen it yet, but a great little software tool would be an O2 calculator. One could type in their regulator pressure, stone size, wort gravity, wort volume, and wort temperature, and it would tell you how long to oxygenate for.

I always use about a 45 second blast with mine (bit less with the medical system, bit more for higher gravity beers). It seems to work perfectly, but honestly I have no idea if I am at an optimum amount.

One benefit of the air pump is that you effectively can't over-oxygenate with them because you can never exceed the oxygen concentration in the atmosphere.

Another method I have read about for aeration is to pour the cooled wort back and forth between the pot and carboy a couple of times. I've never tried it; seems like too much work.

I think I'll stick with the vigorous shake method for now, but I am tempted to get one of the small aerators from B3 (http://morebeer.com/view_product/16607/102281). They make the claim that just "5 minutes is better than shaking." Even if that is not true (got data?) the convenience of just dropping it in and walking away would be nice. Maybe Santa will leave it under the tree this year...

My birthday is next weekend. Just got a email confirmation for a Oxygen Injection System from Midwest. I had told my wife I wanted one. My account must have popped up on the PC when she went to order it, so I'll have to try to act surprised

I do 10 gallon batches and use two 7 ½ gallon buckets to transport the beer into my workshop downstairs. Then I simply do a partial pour from one bucket into another…back and forth…rather violently, several times until the wort has frothed up nicely. Toss in the yeast and do it a couple more times, put the lids and locks on and…done.

Never had a bad beer and never had issues with attenuation. For me, it’s all about getting good beer brewed quickly and efficiently. I don’t even bother with glass carboys as primaries any more cuz I’m past the point of wanting to watch the fermentation process.

How long does the aeration with a bubble stone usually take?

BierMuncher said:

How long does the aeration with a bubble stone usually take?

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That's the kicker...the B3 website says 30-120 minutes is needed for the device I linked to in post 10. There's no way I'm going to wait that long. However, they also make the claim that "even 5 minutes is better than shaking the carboy."

I think I'll just stick with shaking for now. Its free, and I haven't seen overwhelming evidence that shaking doesn't get the job done.

The big benefit to oxygen tanks and hepa filtered air pumps is that of sanitation. Any other method poses a small risk of pulling something nasty out of the air. If you think about every other step of the brewing process where you carefully protect your wort from contamination, this sloshing stuff seems counterintuitive. I don't know exactly what the increased risk is but it's just one more thing.

One of the guys here did a experiment... the video is posted on

WHOOPS... it's Bobby M (I posted late again)

I'd have to reinterate what Zoe & Biermuncher said, that just the process of straining the wort, moving it from the boil kettle to fermenter & or moving it from point A to B and giving it a little shake seems to be plenty of aeration.

I've got both a pump and O2 but usually don't seems to need either. (very high gravity wort may well be the exception I don't have any experience there).

Remember too and Zoe said this also that a healthy batch of yeast is the most important part.

As homebrewers we aren't necessarily trying to create a sterile environment just one where the yeast we add basicially overwhelms any wild yeast that may be present and we are trying to keep wild yeast at a minimum.

But it's certainly possible to obsess over anything if you'd like.

Now if you'd like to create a sterile environment I'd direct you to the process Louis Pasteur patented in France in 1871 and the US in 1873.

I just pour or siphon my wort into my primary bucket through a sanitized funnel with a strainer and then just shake it like hell a few times before I pitch.

My last smack pack started fermenting in 8.5 hours.
When I used whitelabs all ferments started within 24 hours.

I'm sticking with shaking for the forseeable future.

Cregar said:

One of the guys here did a experiment... the video is posted on YouTube.com

WHOOPS... it's Bobby M (I posted late again)

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The video is a good demonstration. It's nice to see stuff like that.

I still come away thinking that shaking is as good a method as any other.

I'm not too concerned about the sanitation issue with shaking, but I get the point.

Read this regarding oxygen requirements for yeast.

If nothing else, it'll certainly save your back and prevent dropping a fermenter full of wort...if we're talking carboys, do a search on "shattered carboys".

FireBrewer said:

Read this regarding oxygen requirements for yeast.

If nothing else, it'll certainly save your back and prevent dropping a fermenter full of wort...if we're talking carboys, do a search on "shattered carboys".

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In general, it is difficult for homebrewers to achieve sufficient oxygen levels. The levels of oxygen necessary for optimal fermentation vary depending on the yeast strain. Ale strains usually need between 8-12 part per million (ppm) while lager strains require slightly higher amounts (10-15 ppm). At atmospheric pressure the maximum level of dissolved oxygen in wort is approximately 8 ppm and the saturation level decreases further as the gravity of the wort increases. Thus unless special steps are taken to introduce air or oxygen into the wort, it is difficult for homebrewers to achieve adequate aeration. Recent studies have shown that oxygenation is by far more efficient than aeration. Injection of oxygen through a 2 micron diffusing stone can actually supersaturate the wort with 10-12 ppm of dissolved oxygen being reached in 5 gallons of wort by a single 60 second blast of oxygen!

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Thought that this should be highlighted.

olllllo said:

Thought that this should be highlighted.

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Very interesting! This makes the obsessive-compulsive part of my brain want to rush out and buy an O2 generator right now! :cross:

I don't doubt that injecting concentrated O2 into the wort will produce higher levels of oxygenation. Does shaking introduce enough O2 for the fermentation to start and finish satisfactorily? I think the answer is "Yes. Most of the time."

I guess one of the main benefits of using a pump or O2 is that it takes the guessing out of aeration, especially with high OG brews.

*Checks to make sure there's a piece of wood nearby*

I've brewed 16 batches thus far and aerated each the exact same way. Poured the wort through a strainer into a carboy, added top off water and agitated. Each time I've ended up with foam out the top of the carboy so I'm pretty sure I'm getting enough air in there. I've never had a slow or incomplete fermentation across all 16 batches and no infections. For my money I'm sticking with the strainer/agitation method.

*Knocks furiously on said piece of wood*

I shake my wort extremely vigorously for 5 minutes. I cover the hole in the stopper with foil and my thumb and shake for about a minute and a half then stop for 15 seconds and repeat that two more times. I shake by sitting on the floor and putting one bottom edge of the carboy on the floor and rocking it back until the bottom almost touches the floor, then pull towards me again. Froth is swirling throughout the wort as I do this. Once I am done, I leave it alone (how does that saying go - if you shake it more than once...) and it starts up in 8 hours with a smack pack and 16 to 24 hours with tubes.

I use one of these in the boiling pot once the wort's cooled:


http://www.pavepatch.com/images/header_large2118.jpg


seems to work fine for me.

Bearcat Brewmeister said:

I shake my wort extremely vigorously for 5 minutes. I cover the hole in the stopper with foil and my thumb and shake for about a minute and a half then stop for 15 seconds and repeat that two more times. I shake by sitting on the floor and putting one bottom edge of the carboy on the floor and rocking it back until the bottom almost touches the floor, then pull towards me again. Froth is swirling throughout the wort as I do this. Once I am done, I leave it alone (how does that saying go - if you shake it more than once...) and it starts up in 8 hours with a smack pack and 16 to 24 hours with tubes.

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I am going to have to try this method, I dont think I agitated my first batch enough, it took over 48 hours to start fermentation.

eviltwinofjoni said:

I use one of these in the boiling pot once the wort's cooled:


http://www.pavepatch.com/images/header_large2118.jpg


seems to work fine for me.

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I laughed my @$$ off when I saw this because about .005 seconds before I clicked on the link I thought about using that exact same tool.

My last batch I used one of these for a couple of minutes:

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_34_458&products_id=885

Worked like a charm! No more shaking for me!

I know oxygen is important to the yeast but the amount of oxygen the yeast need is minimized when you pitch the right amount. I shake and I am not saying a stone and pump isn't a good thing. Just saying there are other things to consider. Although a aeration sytem is probably on my list for a B3 order before I make a lager.

I am planning to use my SS degassing wand that I use for wine. It can really whip up a batch of wine, I can't see why it wouldn't aerate beer well.

Anyone else use a siphon sprayer? For such a mundane, cheap peice of equipment, I've been pretty satisfied with it.

One thing that I am considering using is my son's nebulizer pump. We bought a cheap one that has a big hepa filter on it. A month later insurance bought us a good one, and the cheap one sits unused. I just need to get a stone.

I apologize for posting a link to another forum, but I thought this would be of interest regarding this topic:

http://www.brew-monkey.com/brewschool/oxygenation.php