is no airlock activity a bad sign...first brew!!!

hello this is my first brew, i am brewing a x2 ipa and a red irish ale, both are three days into fermentation. the air lock activity has stopped, is this a bad sign or normal?. they were both bubbling vigorously in the beginning.

Sounds like active fermentation is winding down. Give it a couple more days then take a gravity reading

so when active fermentation starts to wind down, is that normal?

Yes, its normal.

mpfeil8484 said:

so when active fermentation starts to wind down, is that normal?

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Completely.

The yeast have digested nearly all the available sugar, so their activity is beginning to slow.

Main fermentation happens in a few days, but the yeast will be working for the next 3 weeks making your beer great, they are your co-brewers. Keep your beer in the fermentor for 3 more weeks (I know what the directions say).

mikescooling said:

Main fermentation happens in a few days, but the yeast will be working for the next 3 weeks making your beer great, they are your co-brewers. Keep your beer in the fermentor for 3 more weeks (I know what the directions say).

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Disagree. Ipas are meant to be drank fresh. Terminal gravity +a day or two, cold crash if able, then to packaging. Imo, the need to keep beer on a yeast cake for extended periods is a bandaid for bad brewing practices.

Hugh_Jass said:

Disagree. Ipas are meant to be drank fresh. Terminal gravity +a day or two, cold crash if able, then to packaging. Imo, the need to keep beer on a yeast cake for extended periods is a bandaid for bad brewing practices.

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Thanks for the replies what about fermentation temp.

mikescooling said:

Main fermentation happens in a few days, but the yeast will be working for the next 3 weeks making your beer great, they are your co-brewers. Keep your beer in the fermentor for 3 more weeks (I know what the directions say).

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+1 on this. Yes if you are dialed in to a recipe across all variables, then yes it can happen quicker. But - this post is your best bet.

Band-aid = someone that is dialed in to a specific set of variables.

Fermentation temperature is very important. It depends on the yeast strain, the OG, and the desired esters. The viable cell count of yeast is also very, very important.

mpfeil8484 said:

Thanks for the replies what about fermentation temp.

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My rule of thumb is temps should be in the bottom third of the recommended range.

control your ferment temps, pitch an adequate amount of healthy, viable yeast, and be meticulous with your sanitation regime, and you'll produce a high quality product. The above listed things eliminates the need to keep beer on the yeast cake for extended periods of time. Good luck with your beer.

What was the yeast pitched in this beer?

jethro55 said:

Band-aid = someone that is dialed in to a specific set of variables.

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A specific variable like 3-4 weeks on a yeast cake. Lol

Hugh_Jass said:

My rule of thumb is temps should be in the bottom third of the recommended range.

control your ferment temps, pitch an adequate amount of healthy, viable yeast, and be meticulous with your sanitation regime, and you'll produce a high quality product. The above listed things eliminates the need to keep beer on the yeast cake for extended periods of time. Good luck with your beer.

What was the yeast pitched in this beer?

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Thank u the yeast that came with the kit is a dry ale yeast

Hugh_Jass said:

A specific variable like 3-4 weeks on a yeast cake. Lol

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As if aging does not matter. Green tastes good to some....yes it does. 10 days from grain to glass right? Dang, you are really good - but weak in the senses of taste !

mpfeil8484 said:

Thank u the yeast that came with the kit is a dry ale yeast

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There's a few different dry ale yeast strains... No worries. Congrats on making beer.

The hive-mind on this board is mind boggling :eyeroll:

jethro55 said:

As if aging does not matter. Green tastes good to some....yes it does. 10 days from grain to glass right? Dang, you are really good - but weak in the senses of taste !

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Depends on the strain, but 10 days is usually plenty of time, especially if you're warming at the end of fermentation (remember, yeast activity vs. temp isn't linear; it's logarithmic).

I think Hugh was saying the best way to deal with green beer is to not make beer with "greenness" traits in the first place.

Also, don't insult another brewer's palate. That's just cruel, haha.

Hugeass -
You are a legend in your own mind.

How long you keep the beer on the cake seems to be dependent on the OG in my experience. Most lighter beers, especially wit biers and hefeweizens I've brewed were best when fermented for a week and bottle conditioned for a week. But most beers of average gravity (1.050-1.065) are best served with at least two weeks or more on the yeast in order to clean up some left over byproducts like diacetyl and some fusels.

Even bigger beers should go for at the very least a month if not a couple months worth of lagering.

IPAs are best fresh, that is true, but we are talking about fresh from bottling day (EDIT: And by fresh from bottling day, you need to condition average gravity beers another 2-3 weeks in the bottle). Leaving it on the cake for at least two weeks and your malt flavors will be served well from stabilizing of fermentation byproducts.

TyTanium said:

I think Hugh was saying the best way to deal with green beer is to not make beer with "greenness" traits in the first place.

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QFT

shouldn't you use italics when paraphrasing a legend :wink:

Yeah, I did. Hugeass in italics. I have read posts from a number of posters about the speed of grain to glass. And from that BS I will still claim that it does take at least two weeks in primary and at least 10 days to condition in order to make decent tasting beer. Not that there can't be a rare case here and there, but it is really abnormal. Create bottle bombs if you wish, just don't think it is right to recommend the expectation to master it right off the bat.

jethro55 said:

Yeah, I did. Hugeass in italics. I have read posts from a number of posters about the speed of grain to glass. And from that BS I will still claim that it does take at least two weeks in primary and at least 10 days to condition in order to make decent tasting beer. Not that there can't be a rare case here and there, but it is really abnormal. Create bottle bombs if you wish, just don't think it is right to recommend the expectation to master it right off the bat.

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Claim anything you'd like, it's your beer. It's not bs, however. Average gravity ales(that's 4.5-6 ABV) reach terminal gravity in 7-10 days. Add a few days for yeast to digest dicetyl and acetaldehyde created during the fermentation process.

Sure, some malt forward beers benefit from ageing periods so the flavors can meld. This process can be done off the cake. It's different than leaving beer on the cake to reabsorb and metabolize undesirable compounds that wouldn't have been created with better brewing technique.

Btw, please explain how bottle bombs occur after terminal gravity has been achieved. That's new to me.

Hugh_Jass said:

Sounds like active fermentation is winding down. Give it a couple more days then take a gravity reading

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He was 3 days into fermentation of a double IPA and you are leading him get ready to bottle. That's dumb.

Hugh_Jass said:

Sounds like active fermentation is winding down. Give it a couple more days then take a gravity reading

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Read again

Hugh_Jass said:

Disagree. Ipas are meant to be drank fresh. Terminal gravity +a day or two, cold crash if able, then to packaging. Imo, the need to keep beer on a yeast cake for extended periods is a bandaid for bad brewing practices.

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OK - here it is. "Hurry up and bottle it" is implied.

Terminal gravity +a day or two means three days? That's stretching it. Lol

edit: it's not stretching it. It's not even the same sport as stretching it. Lol

I think someone is making a Huge ass of himself, coming into the beginners forum and giving such advice.
First let's get them making beer that is drinkable.
Then lets work on getting them to make better beer by changing the way they brew.
Then we should work at refining their process so they can make great beer. Something to take to competitions and have a chance of placing if not winning.

Once they have all that down, then they can work on making beer fast.

Easy fellas. Hugh was offering sound advice, to which the OP was asking followup questions, followed by more sound advice.

We've all had old IPAs that are "missing something"...namely that fresh hop character. Yes, there's no need to "rush" the beer, but sitting on it for an arbitrary amount of time has a cost, namely, the loss of incredibly awesome yet volatile hop character. So if the beer is at terminal gravity and it tastes good, bottle it. And enjoy it while it's fresh.

RM-MN said:

I think someone is making a Huge ass of himself, coming into the beginners forum and giving such advice.
First let's get them making beer that is drinkable.
Then lets work on getting them to make better beer by changing the way they brew.
Then we should work at refining their process so they can make great beer. Something to take to competitions and have a chance of placing if not winning.

Once they have all that down, then they can work on making beer fast.

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It's not about making beer fast. It's about learning proper technique.

This was my recommendation to the OP:

control your ferment temps, pitch an adequate amount of healthy, viable yeast, and be meticulous with your sanitation regime, and you'll produce a high quality product. The above listed things eliminates the need to keep beer on the yeast cake for extended periods of time. Good luck with your beer

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None of this is overwhelming. It is good practice, though. A new brewer shouldn't have to relearn his/her brewing practices because of omitted advice. We're all (or supposed to be) legal adults on this board. I'm sure they can handle the basic idiosyncracies of brewing.

Hugh_Jass said:

It's not about making beer fast. It's about learning proper technique.

This was my recommendation to the OP:


None of this is overwhelming. It is good practice, though. A new brewer shouldn't have to relearn his/her brewing practices because of omitted advice. We're all (or supposed to be) legal adults on this board. I'm sure they can handle the basic idiosyncracies of brewing.

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Maybe it just appears to me that the volume of blunders posted every day would contradict that.

jethro55 said:

Maybe it just appears to me that the volume of blunders posted every day would contradict that.

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All the more reason to post thorough, solid brewing advice. Education = blunder prevention

It's not the blunder, it's the it's the regurgitation of advice given after the blunder. A simple question about airlock activity leads into "dude, leave that beer on the yeast for 3-4 weeks."

Additionally, by not correcting the newer brewer's mistakes in hopes of correcting them later, you perpetuate your own blunders.

Look, I'm not saying a brewer SHOULD rush a beer along or HAS to take a beer off of a yeast cake quickly after terminal gravity is reached. I often don't, for among other reasons, I'm lazy. Because I choose to leave beer on a cake after the yeast have completed fermentation, doesn't translate to 3-4 weeks is minimum. It's not true.

If you're really interested in helping a newer brewer along, tell the brewer good practices (like listed above) not offer bandaids that may or may not help the beer's quality.

tytanium said:

all the more reason to post thorough, solid brewing advice. Education = blunder prevention

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qft

TyTanium said:

All the more reason to post thorough, solid brewing advice. Education = blunder prevention

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There is a large amount of information to be learned absorbed in the beginning. Lots of new terms and how things are related, and a myriad of different approaches. Sometimes the KISS method is called for. Education comes in stages, more complicated with time. Incomprehensible to offer it all at once.

jethro55 said:

There is a large amount of information to be learned absorbed in the beginning. Lots of new terms and how things are related, and a myriad of different approaches. Sometimes the KISS method is called for. Education comes in stages, more complicated with time. Incomprehensible to offer it all at once.

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Ok, but the most important thing - what actually turns maltose water into beer -is fermentation. A person new to brewing should learn proper fermentation: proper pitch rate and temperature. "Green" flavors are off flavors from bad brewing, typically fermentation. Funny how my 1.150 RIS tasted great during fermentation. Sure it took about 3 weeks to finally get down to 1.027 (the last week being 3-5 points), but it tasted awesome at 1.035+ in 2 weeks. **** time healing - brew better beer.

jethro55 said:

Hugeass -
You are a legend in your own mind.

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jethro55 said:

Yeah, I did. Hugeass in italics. I have read posts from a number of posters about the speed of grain to glass. And from that BS I will still claim that it does take at least two weeks in primary and at least 10 days to condition in order to make decent tasting beer. Not that there can't be a rare case here and there, but it is really abnormal. Create bottle bombs if you wish, just don't think it is right to recommend the expectation to master it right off the bat.

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Please expound on this. I'm not as much as an expert as some, but I've never once heard that it takes 2 weeks in primary and 10 days to condition to make decent tasting beer.

Could you please provide links to this study, and this expert advise?

My beers must suck because I've never heard that before, and I am wondering if I should totally re-learn everything I thought I knew about brewing?

My understanding of microbiology and fermentation has led me to believe that there are three phases the yeast go through during making the beer- from the aerobic phase, to anaerobic phase, and then the "clean up" phase for approximately 24 hours after fermentation ends.

(I realize that I am totally simplifying the phases/words for clarity here).

So, if fermentation ends on day 5, and the diacetyl rest is completed by day 7, why does it take 14 days at a minimum to make my beer not suck? And then why the 10 days in the bottle? And, any links provided to help me understand would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!!!!!!!

Oh, and about the bottle bombs- how does that work? If the beer is at FG at day 5, and at day 14, when I bottle how could bottle bombs happen? That doesn't make any sense to me.

".... but I've never once heard that it takes 2 weeks in primary and 10 days to condition to make decent tasting beer. Could you please provide links to this study, and this expert advise?"
Ref Palmer, Chapter 8 on Fermentation. And numerous times each week here on the average as just reliable practice for newbies like me. RE: Not that there can't be a rare case here and there, but it is really abnormal (should have put "for the beginner").

"My beers must suck because I've never heard that before, and I am wondering if I should totally....."
Emotional venting is fine. We would all be lucky to try some of your brews.

"My understanding of microbiology and fermentation has led me to believe that there are three phases the yeast go through during making the beer- from the aerobic phase, to anaerobic phase, and then the "clean up" phase for approximately 24 hours after fermentation ends."
The process phases are better known as lag, attenuation, and conditioning.

"So, if fermentation ends on day 5, and the diacetyl rest is completed by day 7, why does it take 14 days at a minimum to make my beer not suck? And then why the 10 days in the bottle?"
Simply because you have mastered the finer aspects and honed your techniques. Attention to detail is a somewhat rare trait. Most of us that are not at your level. Without that, what you understand as correct aging timetable is a not a realistic expectation for newbies. It is a realistic expectation for intermediate level. Maybe "making better beer and reducing timetables" is a good forum topic to add here.

"Oh, and about the bottle bombs- how does that work? If the beer is at FG at day 5, and at day 14, when I bottle how could bottle bombs happen? That doesn't make any sense to me."
I wouldn't personally take issue with that as a recommendation. When I read "this is my first brew", then recommending patience, rather than mastery of speed; seems most appropriate wrt to the bottle bomb risks. I had a brief emotional reaction to advice that would recommend the opposite to "this is my first brew".

Again, it's not about speed. It's about correct process. How hard is it to make sure you pitch enough healthy yeast (especially with a dry yeast sachet) and control temps during active fermentation?

Whether it's the poster's first brew or not, it's good and simple advice.

Hugh_Jass said:

Sounds like active fermentation is winding down. Give it a couple more days then take a gravity reading

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jethro55 said:

There is a large amount of information to be learned absorbed in the beginning. Lots of new terms and how things are related, and a myriad of different approaches. Sometimes the KISS method is called for. Education comes in stages, more complicated with time. Incomprehensible to offer it all at once.

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Have hit this web site about 5 or 10 times per day over the last 2 months. My son and I started the hobby in early October and are quickly addicted.

We are using the Beer Machine and the Brewers Best Deluxe kit. So farwe have bottled 3 batches, one waiting in secondary, and another just entered fermentation.

All the waiting sure leaves plenty of time to brew more. This site is great and it helping enormously ! Thanksto theteam atHomebrew Talk !!!

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I'm not trying to insult you, but you've been brewing >6 months. How can you say with absolute certainty what a new brewer needs and does not need. You are a new brewer, yourself.

Hugh_Jass said:

I'm not trying to insult you, but you've been brewing >6 months. How can you say with absolute certainty what a new brewer needs and does not need. You are a new brewer, yourself.

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Yes - I am right at 6 months. And all the confusion and learning is fresh in memory, making it a valid perspective. The counterpoint is that you might be to far experienced to be able to tell how much information can be absorbed and at what rate and in what order. No insult taken. Good question.

KYB said:

Ok, but the most important thing - what actually turns maltose water into beer -is fermentation. A person new to brewing "should learn over time to brew better beer " in the minimum time possible". \\\

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I can agree, but only as edited. If you mean that they should achieve that goal on the first few times, Then, no. It is not a reasonable goal in the beginning.