First time using blichman conical fermenter

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sublimenal

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Hi guys,

Just bought a 14 gallon blichman conical fermenter from someone on craiglist. I just put my first beer (11 gallons belgian wit) into it last night. Everything is fermenting great as of now. I just had a few questions.

1. How long do you normally wait until you dump the trub?
2. How do you prevent oxidization when removing the airlock when draining the trub?
3. I see I can now save my yeast instead of just throwing it out, how do you tell the difference from the waste and the yeast? And do you just put it in a jar and refrigerate it?

Anything else I should know about from an experienced conical user?

Thanks
 
Normally it is about 2 weeks. You want to give the yeast time to clean up after themselves. There wont be that much oxygen pulled in. There will still be c02 to push the oxygen out. You will have to wash the yeast. Do a google search on washing yeast will Billy brew.
 
Normally it is about 2 weeks. You want to give the yeast time to clean up after themselves. There wont be that much oxygen pulled in. There will still be c02 to push the oxygen out. You will have to wash the yeast. Do a google search on washing yeast will Billy brew.

Admittedly I've only read/heard about dumping trub. However, everything I've read says that if you time it properly you can dump the trub (along with some of the more flocculent yeast) at ~5 days (don't quote me on the exact number though). Then, a couple days later, when the healthier/less floculent yeast have settled, you do another dump to get relatively clean yeast for repitching.
 
Think of it like moving to a secondary fermentor. The idea there is to get rid of the trub then let the remaining yeast finish up and settle out. So, dump after a week. Or, you could do what I do and leave it all in a bucket (or a fancy conical) until you have an empty keg.
 
There are several philosophies on this of course like anything else. I don't have my conical anymore, but when I did, I'd let the conical settle for about 30 minutes after pumping the chilled wort in. Sanitary filter on the blowoff port and dump the trub. Oxygen after, then yeast. If you're not collecting yeast for reuse, just wait until the fermentation is completely done before dumping. If you want to collect, I feel that it's important to flush some of the early floc. I just went with a small dump at day 3-5 depending on the the OG and then take my collection when fermentation was nearly done.

I know a lot of people have no problem sucking room air into their fermenter but I tried two different methods of avoiding it. One way is to run a small co2 tank into the blowoff port at very low pressure whenever you're dumping or racking. Another trick that works ok if you're still fermenting a bit is to cut the corner off a 1 gallon ziplock bag and rubberband it over the blowoff port about 10 minutes before you plan to dump so that it fills with CO2. When you create a vacuum due to dumping, it pulls CO2 back in. I had also considered using a clean mylar balloon for the same thing but never got around to it.
 
There are several philosophies on this of course like anything else. I don't have my conical anymore, but when I did, I'd let the conical settle for about 30 minutes after pumping the chilled wort in. Sanitary filter on the blowoff port and dump the trub. Oxygen after, then yeast. If you're not collecting yeast for reuse, just wait until the fermentation is completely done before dumping. If you want to collect, I feel that it's important to flush some of the early floc. I just went with a small dump at day 3-5 depending on the the OG and then take my collection when fermentation was nearly done.

I know a lot of people have no problem sucking room air into their fermenter but I tried two different methods of avoiding it. One way is to run a small co2 tank into the blowoff port at very low pressure whenever you're dumping or racking. Another trick that works ok if you're still fermenting a bit is to cut the corner off a 1 gallon ziplock bag and rubberband it over the blowoff port about 10 minutes before you plan to dump so that it fills with CO2. When you create a vacuum due to dumping, it pulls CO2 back in. I had also considered using a clean mylar balloon for the same thing but never got around to it.

Why would you stop using a conical?
 
It's a bit harder to control your fermentation temperatures with a conical unless you build a cold room.

Why is this? Are you saying it's harder because it's a bit bulkier/taller, so it's harder to fit in a chest freezer?
 
A 14 gallon Blichmann will not fit in most chest freezers. It's too tall. It can fit in certain fridges but you would need a collared keezer to use it. And lifting it in full would be a cock and a half.
 
Well, I'm curious to hear his reasons, so that's why I asked. What are your reasons?

First of all, ferm temp control. I don't have a fridge that fits my conical. I used to have a neighbor who had a garage fridge that it fit perfectly in so I could set it up there but he moved.

Second, it's lame unless you are doing 10-12 gallon batches. It's way easier to use buckets/carboys if you are doing 6 gallons at time. And if you are doing batches in the 10-12 gallon range, it's hard to carry/move around.

Third, it's more work to clean. You have to take the valves off and apart pretty much each time you use it. It's a lot of tedious time consuming work. I had an infection once in the conical because I didn't clean it well enough. This never happens in carboys for me.

The only time I use my conical nowadays is when I'm doing a 10-12 gallon IPA batch as the conical is nice for multiple dry hopping additions as you can rack the old ones off and add new ones easily. I usually do these down at my local brewery as they have a temp controlled room and a huge walk in where we can use the conical on a pallet and move it in and out of the walk in with the forklift.

At home, a conical isn't worth much to me as it doesn't mesh well with my process. I'd much rather use buckets/carboys. If I got a stand up fridge, I'd use it occasionally for 10 gallon batches but it's not high on my list of things I need.
 
The reasons that Irrenarzt listed out above are exactly why I would not purchase a conical.

If you cannot control the fermentation temperatures then there really is no good reason to use a conical. If I had a large room where I could control the temperatures such as a walk in freezer or even a really large refrigerator, then I might consider it. But to spend several hundred dollars on a fermentation vessel where the average person cannot control the fermentation temperatures seems like a big waste of money IMO. It won't make your beer taste any better.

You're so much better off purchasing a couple chest freezers and temperature controllers and fermenting in carboys or pails.
 
A 14 gallon Blichmann will not fit in most chest freezers. It's too tall. It can fit in certain fridges but you would need a collared keezer to use it. And lifting it in full would be a cock and a half.

They make 7 gallon conicals. You didn't specify what size yours was. Also, it seems easy enough to make a basic cold room with some insulation and an AC unit/temp controller combo.
 
The reasons that Irrenarzt listed out above are exactly why I would not purchase a conical.

If you cannot control the fermentation temperatures then there really is no good reason to use a conical. If I had a large room where I could control the temperatures such as a walk in freezer or even a really large refrigerator, then I might consider it. But to spend several hundred dollars on a fermentation vessel where the average person cannot control the fermentation temperatures seems like a big waste of money IMO. It won't make your beer taste any better.

You're so much better off purchasing a couple chest freezers and temperature controllers and fermenting in carboys or pails.

+1 on all counts. Never understood the use of a big conical on a homebrew scale. Dropping all that coin on one and not having temperature control or having to build and insulate a "cold room" seems kind of asanine.
 
+1 on all counts. Never understood the use of a big conical on a homebrew scale. Dropping all that coin on one and not having temperature control or having to build and insulate a "cold room" seems kind of asanine.

Lots of people build a fermentation chamber. How would this be any different (unless it's a huge conical that requires an entire room)? The primary interest, for me is that it'd be easier to clean/sanitize, harvest yeast, transfer to a keg.
 
Lots of people build a fermentation chamber. How would this be any different (unless it's a huge conical that requires an entire room)? The primary interest, for me is that it'd be easier to clean/sanitize, harvest yeast, transfer to a keg.

The difference I would assume is that the fermentation chambers that people build are generally for 1 - 2 carboy/buckets and are smaller in size than a fermentation chamber that would be needed to house a single conical. The larger fermentation chamber needed to house a conical wouldn't be nearly as efficient has a smaller fermentation chamber that would house 1 - 2 carboys and would cost more to keep cool. Additionally, you would need to find the space in your home to build a fermentation chamber for a conical. If you're going to get a conical, you should get one with the leg extensions and casters, both of which add quite a bit of height.

I don't really think cleaning/sanitizing a conical is any easier than a bucket or a carboy.

The only real benefit is the ability to remove the trub and harvest yeast. Is that worth dropping several hundred dollars on a fermentation vessel?
 
It's not easier to clean than a carboy or bucket. Trust me on that. It's not difficult but it takes a while to clean a conical. You need to remove the lid and the lip seal. You need to remove and disassemble both ball valves. Then you need to soak all the parts in PBW, then star san. Then you need to reassemble the valves and put them back on and wash the conical itself with PBW, then soak it in sanitizer. Then you need to sanitize the lip seal, replace it as well as the lid. It's not difficult but it takes awhile.

Harvesting yeast, easier for sure than a bucket but not by much. It's just as easy to grab a bunch of yeast cake from a bucket with a sanitized ball jar.

It is easier to rack to a keg with a conical on one condition. You need to lift the bastard up onto a counter to have a gravity feed. You could pressure transfer with CO2 but that's just more to clean up afterward.

I encourage people to get a conical if they want one. Sometimes you just have to learn things for yourself. You might even end up liking it more than a carboy.
 
I got a good price on a 14 gallon blichman a couple months ago so i jumped on it but to this dag i havent even used it. It doesnt fit in my ferm fridge and it is too warm just to leave at room temp right now. Not sure if i will sell or keep it.
 
The difference I would assume is that the fermentation chambers that people build are generally for 1 - 2 carboy/buckets and are smaller in size than a fermentation chamber that would be needed to house a single conical. The larger fermentation chamber needed to house a conical wouldn't be nearly as efficient has a smaller fermentation chamber that would house 1 - 2 carboys and would cost more to keep cool. Additionally, you would need to find the space in your home to build a fermentation chamber for a conical. If you're going to get a conical, you should get one with the leg extensions and casters, both of which add quite a bit of height.

I don't really think cleaning/sanitizing a conical is any easier than a bucket or a carboy.

The only real benefit is the ability to remove the trub and harvest yeast. Is that worth dropping several hundred dollars on a fermentation vessel?

If we're talking me personally, then I'd be getting a 7 gallon conical, as I don't drink enough to warrant a 14 gallon conical. I can see wanting/needing leg extensions/casters for a 14 gallon conical, but I could easily lift a 7 gallon conical. As far as a fermentation chamber, I don't see why you couldn't set the chamber up so the extensions go through the bottom of the chamber. If you do that, the difference in cooling costs would have to be minimal. I mean, I haven't done a complete volume comparison, but can't be a ton different.

As far as cleaning. I'd definitely argue it's easier since you can scrub with a scouring pad. I'll admit there's a bit more cleaning to do. However, there theoretically, should never be a case where you can't get it cleaned sanitized (unlike buckets....though admittedly buckets are cheap, but I don't like to have to throw away buckets either).
 
I got a good price on a 14 gallon blichman a couple months ago so i jumped on it but to this dag i havent even used it. It doesnt fit in my ferm fridge and it is too warm just to leave at room temp right now. Not sure if i will sell or keep it.

I don't mean to bag on you, but why'd you buy it without a plan for chilling it?
 
I don't mean to bag on you, but why'd you buy it without a plan for chilling it?

Why not? I had the money and price was right. I also picked up a blichman plate chiller from the same person with no means of using it and now it is perfect for my e-build. When i see good deals i jump. Worst case scenario i sell it for a small profit.
Besides i have troubke passing up shiny new brewing toys
 
I just recently purchased a Blichmann 14 gal. conical as well. It greatly simplifies my process for 10-11 gallaon batches. I use to have to use two carboys. The process was Primary -> Secondary -> Bottling Bucket -> Bottles, or Primary -> Secondary -> Keg. Multiplied by two. I know there are other, less expensive ways to simplify (no need for secondary, larger, non-conical fermenter, etc.). This works great. I have leg extensions and casters, and it just rolls into my "fermentation chamber" (I like that term better than "downstairs bathroom"). Now, the only transfer is once to the kegs, or I bottle right from the racking port on the fermenter. Instead of transfering 3 or 4 times and cleaning 6 vessels in the process, I only clean one. Stainless Steel is nice - I don't worry about scratching it when cleaning, and it does not absorb and retain the wort smell that plastic can. I have come to loathe dealing with glass carboys.

No question you do not need a conical to make great beer. However, if it fits with your process it can be a great addition to the home brewery.
 

I think Yooper posted that one a few months ago somewhere and I started drooling. (about the conical) :)

It's quite a bit more expensive than the non-temp control, but I really like the idea of being able to dial in a temp and knowing I'll hit it consistently without having to build a whole chamber. For triple the price of a new one the same size but without the temp control though....

Tough call.
 
I love my 14.5g conical.
I use it for 5 and 10 gallon batches.
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I have the brewhemoth fermenter. I just use an upright freezer with temp control i got for $50 on crigs list.(you do NOT need to build a chamber). My fermenter fits with plenty of room to spare and i hold fermentation temps within a degree. Even though it only has a 4 inch hole at the top its easier to clean and maintain than carboys. Ill never use a carboy again.
 
Here in Ohio, I use a 26 gallon conical, and brew several 20 gallon batches each year, starting right about now when night time temperatures begin to drop into the 30's. I have an attached garage where I can do all my brewing out on the concrete floor where I can sterilize, brew, and clean up everything up afterward with a hose. Once the wort is in the fermenter (on wheels and extensions of course) I push it off to the side, and use a thermostatically controlled electric heater to maintain the garage temperature right where I need it to keep the brew at the proper temperature. Since the garage is attached and well insulated, the temperature never falls below 45 degrees even without the heater, and for most of the year, it doesn't take too much to keep it in the fifties or sixties. It's like having a giant walk in, and my wife likes the added benefit of having a relatively warm car on cold mornings too. Of course, I can't brew that way in the summer, but when you're cranking out 20 gallons at a time, you can brew a year's worth pretty quickly, and if I get in a pinch, I can always do a batch in the basement where it stays pretty cool. I usually put 15 gallons of each batch in a regular half barrel, and the rest in a 5 gallon keg, carbonate them both, and then fill bottles from the 5 gallon keg. I try to drink the kegged beers that taste better "young" first, and let the others age for summer time consumption. This approach is working really well for me right now, but eventually, I plan to build a barn, and when I do, I plan to include a room that I can cool or heat so my brewing won't be limited by the time of year.

I've found that the larger batch sizes are much more forgiving and easier to duplicate, and some of the beers I brew, like my porters, taste really great when they've had a year in the keg to settle and develop character. I'm not knocking bucket brewing, but I just got tired of chasing one batch after another trying to keep beer on hand. It takes the same time to brew 5 gallons as it does to brew 20, and I was spending all my time brewing and not enough time drinking it!

Happy Brewing - Highlander
 
Kenmore allfridge works well after you remove the plastic inner door/shelf.
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One of these days I'd like to examine what MoreBeer is using to cool and heat their temperature controlled fermenters. I'm pretty handy with mechanical stuff, and wrapping some sort of heat exchanger directly around the body of the fermenter seems like it might be the best approach. Just adding heat would be easy, but cooling is more challenging, and being able to do both complicates things a lot. I wonder if they are using Peltier modules? That could be a perfect solution ....
 
I'm thinking about building a conical out of a spare sankey. I am planning on wrapping some copper tubing around and pumping glycol from a small chest freezer for cooling and flexwatt for heating. Then insulate with reflectix. It seems like a lot of extra work, BUT it would also allow me to eventually have two different conicals at two different temps (something that's a lot harder in a ferm chamber). I can simply add a pump to the glycol chamber with a separate temp controller for each conical.
 
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