Beer Belly

matt2778 said:

I might also add that as much as exercise sucks it sure feels great when you've finished your workout.

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+1 I enjoy exercising, but that euphoric feeling upon completion, runners call it runners high, is so much better than the workout itself.

Wow I really wish I hadn't done that workout. -No one ever

Surprisingly I don't think I've seen anyone mention proper hydration or late night snacking. Drinking enough water daily helps your body recycle the water in your system instead of trying to hold onto what it has.... which helps you lose water weight which can be like 8-10 lbs. As well, making sure you eat dinner by 7-8 and not eating (drinking isnt included) after that really makes a huge difference. These two things plus at least 10 push-ups or pull-ups a day helped me lose about 25 lbs. It's almost sad that its that easy.

hydration should be pretty well known by now. You realize by stopping eating at 7, and not eating again until breakfast at what 8? is a 13 hour fast. If you pushed that to a 16 hour fast you would have 3 more hours of crazy fat burn! That's all Intermittent fasting is. If you ate Dinner at 6pm, and woke up at 10am to eat breakfast, you just fasted 16 hours. Easy as that. An easy way to cut out the snacking since if you do, you aren't fasting.

If your intake is less than or equal to your daily output, you're good to go. Adjust accordingly. If you go out to lunch with coworkers and there's no avoiding that lovely bacon burger, skip on the snacks/soda for the rest of the day and try to eat less than you normally would at dinner. Also, knocking down portion sizes is a good way to go. I lost a lot of weight over the past 3yrs (64lbs) by not eating everything on my plate and balancing out my intake/output. Also, the only time I'll allow myself more than 1 beer a night is on a football saturday or a dedicated brew day. Coffee is a really good appetite suppressant. Drink all of it you want if you take it without sugar/cream.

Yooper said:

I hate to get dragged into nutritional debates, but I will just tell you my experiences.

I am a big believer in "wheat belly", and not "beer belly". My husband is very slim, but had a tiny little pot belly. Two and a half years ago, he did a ton of research on nutrition (he's a biologist) and decided that wheat is not meant for human consumption.

We both quite eating wheat, and most other carbs, and both changed our bodies.

He has to add carbs every few days, or he drops below 149 pounds (he's 5'11") and he eats about 4000 calories per day.

I eat less calories than he does but still LOTS for my size, and I eat far less carbs than he does. My body can have a piece of bread, and change its metabolism. But I can eat tons of protein and vegetables and stay at 135 pounds.

I do drink plenty of beer, but do not eat any wheat or sugar at all. I eat almost no corn, rice, and few potatoes. I eat vegetables and meat (or chicken or fish), very rarely fruit but never fruit juice, and am slim.

We don't do "paleo" diets, but more of a primal type eating plan. There is a TON of research out there showing why high carb/low fat diets are causing the biggest obesity epidemic in history, including in children. The current nutritional teaching, even in diabetic education plans, is wrong. And it's killing Americans. Just look up "metabolic syndrome" to see why this is so important.

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Yooper, this is very interesting to me. The one part that really sticks out for me is no sugar or wheat. So I take it you mean no added sugar and no grains/bread/pasta made of wheat.. But do you drink wheat beer or have fruit in beer or are you disciplined enough to cut that out as well? Just curious.

I eat lots of bread and candy... I'm fit and in good shape. Exercises is the key.

TheSlash said:

hydration should be pretty well known by now. You realize by stopping eating at 7, and not eating again until breakfast at what 8? is a 13 hour fast. If you pushed that to a 16 hour fast you would have 3 more hours of crazy fat burn! That's all Intermittent fasting is. If you ate Dinner at 6pm, and woke up at 10am to eat breakfast, you just fasted 16 hours. Easy as that. An easy way to cut out the snacking since if you do, you aren't fasting.

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This only works if your actually watching your calories though. If fasting makes you eat 2x as much at breakfast it defeats the point.

Honestly its not the diets that are killing people, its the fact that if you asked 10 random people how many calories were in a meal on a plate probably 9 would be off by more than 300 calories. Americans especially have no real grasp of nutrition or how many calories are in the food they eat, probably the biggest failure in schools today, along with money management skills.

You can eat what you want if you are cognizant of your intake and aim for a balance of carbs/protein and healthy fats.

I eat what i want, but i also workout 5 days a week lifting and cardio and have never been in better shape in my life @ 5'6 150lbs. 3 years ago i used to be a 'skinny fat' as they call it in the fitness world at 125lbs. Skinny, but with zero muscle mass and a belly. Most 'skinny' dudes fall into this category, especially once you get past 30 years old...

divrguy said:

Yooper, this is very interesting to me. The one part that really sticks out for me is no sugar or wheat. So I take it you mean no added sugar and no grains/bread/pasta made of wheat.. But do you drink wheat beer or have fruit in beer or are you disciplined enough to cut that out as well? Just curious.

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I hate wheat beer (and fruit beer), so I really mean no wheat at all. I don't really eat carbs, except for those in some of my veggies (like carrots). I will eat a few berries when they are are ripe (and freeze berries as well), or an apple once in a while, but otherwise I eat very little fruit. I eat no sugar, or anything with added sugar. I also stay away from things like honey, ketchup, BBQ sauce, etc, which are either sugar or loaded with high fructose corn syrup.

It's very hard to buy things at the grocery store that aren't loaded with that stuff, but since I eat meat and vegetables, it's not really an issue. I do eat a few eggs from a friend's farm (although I'm not wild about them), a little cheese (although, again, not wild about it), and use a ton of spices.

I can't give up my beer, though- so I do get plenty of barley. :cross: If it wasn't for beer, I'd probably have no grain products at all.

Yooper said:

I hate wheat beer (and fruit beer), so I really mean no wheat at all. I don't really eat carbs, except for those in some of my veggies (like carrots). I will eat a few berries when they are are ripe (and freeze berries as well), or an apple once in a while, but otherwise I eat very little fruit. I eat no sugar, or anything with added sugar. I also stay away from things like honey, ketchup, BBQ sauce, etc, which are either sugar or loaded with high fructose corn syrup.

It's very hard to buy things at the grocery store that aren't loaded with that stuff, but since I eat meat and vegetables, it's not really an issue. I do eat a few eggs from a friend's farm (although I'm not wild about them), a little cheese (although, again, not wild about it), and use a ton of spices.

I can't give up my beer, though- so I do get plenty of barley. :cross: If it wasn't for beer, I'd probably have no grain products at all.

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That sounds not fun at all... Ill stick to eating in moderation and working out a few times a week, seems to be working for me!

Though I do agree with fruity beers, lightly fruited like purple haze is ok by me however.

earwig said:

I eat lots of bread and candy... I'm fit and in good shape. Exercises is the key.

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Totally agree.

Much like making beer, it's all personal preference. There are an infinite amount of ways to lose/maintain weight when you adjust your caloric input and output. You adjust your output by adjusting how many calories your body burns for energy. You adjust input by adjusting how many calories you consume. It really is that simple. And to the poster that said certain calories are not created equal, that is incorrect. By definition, one kilocalorie is one kilocalorie (nutritional calorie). You may get other nutritional benefits, vitamins, minerals, etc. from different foods, i.e. 100 calories of apples and oranges vs. 100 calories of pepsi. However, one kcal is one kcal. I've seen a personal study where one gentleman lost weight eating only twinkies. Of course he was not getting many essential vitamins and nutrients, however, just by controlling how many calories he ate he was able to lose weight, regardless of the food. It's interesting because the only single food source humans can live off of (meaning the sole food source, having all necessary nutrients to sustain human life) is human breast milk. I've also personally seen a bodybuilder's blog where he controlled what he ate during the week, and accounted for a decrease in calories just so he could drink plenty of beer and alcohol over the weekend as an experiment. And by plenty I mean binging. By doing this, he was still shredded and able to compete.

So like I said, there are an infinite number of ways to drink beer, plenty of it, and still be entirely fit and healthy. You just need to understand, and be willing to undertake, the certain compromises that this entails.

people WAYYYY over-think what it takes to maintain a healthy weight.

how to change your weight

step 1: figure out how many calories you need, using a tool like this. enter in your desired weight and gender.

step 2: eat that many calories a day. eat twinkies or celery, it doesn't matter. just don't go over.

step 3: wait.

in the context of homebrewing, i assume 200 calories a beer. so i cut back on other foods. homebrew is actually pretty filling and i am just as satisfied after half a sandwich and a bottle of homebrew as i am with a whole sandwich and diet soda.

It helps to attenuate your beers as well- Belgian-styles are generally lower in residual sugar.

Eat a plant based diet.

Get exercise.

Be happy.

It's common knowledge that homebrew forums are the best source for nutritional advice. See: this thread.

progmac said:

people WAYYYY over-think what it takes to maintain a healthy weight.

how to change your weight

step 1: figure out how many calories you need, using a tool like this. enter in your desired weight and gender.

step 2: eat that many calories a day. eat twinkies or celery, it doesn't matter. just don't go over.

step 3: wait.

in the context of homebrewing, i assume 200 calories a beer. so i cut back on other foods. homebrew is actually pretty filling and i am just as satisfied after half a sandwich and a bottle of homebrew as i am with a whole sandwich and diet soda.

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Good luck with that. Titrating calories is a losing battle for most, especially with higher insulin resistance. What happens if you're still hungry and not satieted? Tough? The advice to "eat less" is frankly not sustainable for most people because the source of their calories spikes & crashes blood sugar, leading to a ravenous appetite.

xjmox14x said:

...And to the poster that said certain calories are not created equal, that is incorrect....

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And again, NOT ALL CALORIES ARE EQUAL. Beating a dead horse here. Yes, the energy contained is the same. Definitionally correct. But the effect on your body, even excluding vitamins, etc is profoundly different. Eating 2,000 calories of twinkies/carbs vs 2,000 calories of quality fat & protein will have a profoundly different effect on one's body composition.

el_horno said:

That sounds not fun at all... Ill stick to eating in moderation and working out a few times a week, seems to be working for me!

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Great, glad it's working. I will say that most folks who do the paleo/primal thing say it's more "fun" than what they used to eat...and not just because they lose weight, that's just a side effect. Their whole body & energy level are almost euphoric. The first few weeks are tough as you adjust, but after that it's actually kind of ridiculous how easy and "fun" it is.

These "diet" threads are so pointless. They always end up the same way, with people arguing about whose "study" or "facts" are true and whose are myths.

"All calories are equal. Source doesn't matter."

"That's not true, this study proves the source matters."

"No, this guy ate nothing but Twinkies for a month and lost weight."

"But this other guy ate nothing but McDonald's and almost died. Didn't you see "Super Size Me"?"

"Yah but another guy also ate at McDonald's and just ate different stuff and LOST weight."

"Eat food. Not a lot. Mostly plants."

"Avoid carbs. Eat like a caveman. Atkins. Taubes. Blah blah blah."

The bottom line is, for all the "studies" out there, we're still remarkably ignorant about what makes us fat. About the only thing that is consistent is the role calories play. If you eat more calories than you burn, you'll gain weight. Maybe the source of the calories matters, maybe it doesn't, they don't seem to know for sure yet either way.

All I know is, I eat when I'm hungry, I exercise daily, I don't pay any attention at all to dairy, carbs, or whatever, just trying to make sure I get a mix of everything every day to keep my vitamin levels healthy, and I'm at a healthy weight.

But I do love it when a fat person tells me how I should be eating. It's like a broke person telling me how I should manage my money.

Just because we don't come to a common understanding does not render the discussion pointless. The point is to question conventional wisdom and engage in discussion. That in itself is valuable, IMO.

I'm glad your "pay no attention" plan works for you, but it doesn't for a lot of people. They eat when hungry, exercise frequently and are still overweight. Maybe there's more to it than just eating less and exercising regularly...maybe the conventional wisdom is flawed.

I do agree that our bodies are ridiculously complex and there is so much we don't understand; that's all the more reason to engage in discussion about it.

el_horno said:

That sounds not fun at all... Ill stick to eating in moderation and working out a few times a week, seems to be working for me!

Though I do agree with fruity beers, lightly fruited like purple haze is ok by me however.

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Well, that's the thing- it IS fun! I eat so much you can't believe it, and my cholesterol is low, my fasting blood sugar is low, my weight is low, and my body is lean. I used to exercise, and I know I should, but I don't do much other than some hiking and kayaking.

I eat a ton of fish, chicken, lamb, pork, beef, and tons of vegetables. I love spicy food, and eat Thai food often. I eat grass fed beef, olive oil, coconut oil, venison, etc.

I drink more beer than most people, I'm sure, but don't seem to have any health effects. I don't miss pasta or carbs at all, but I did for the first month or so. I can run circles around people half my age, and am very strong for only being 135 pounds and 48 1/2 years old!

The thing for me is that I feel GREAT. I used to feel sluggish at times, or have headaches, or have aches and pains, or have gas. That is longer the case- I feel absolutely fabulous, with tons of energy to spare. I'm never tired. The other weird thing? I'm NEVER hungry. Never. High fat and high protein foods are satiating.

It's all about choices. I think the benefits to this lifestyle choice outweigh the "not fun" part of not eating junk food.

TyTanium said:

Good luck with that. Titrating calories is a losing battle for most, especially with higher insulin resistance. What happens if you're still hungry and not satieted? Tough? The advice to "eat less" is frankly not sustainable for most people because the source of their calories spikes & crashes blood sugar, leading to a ravenous appetite.

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Still hungry? Yes, tough. Maybe don't waste your calories on twinkies tomorrow. Restrict calories and you'll learn what to eat.

This is one of those topics where everyone is an expert but no one knows ****. Even my doctor tries to tell me what to eat and not to eat and he is a huge fat ass... but he is a doctor right? So he must know right? lol. I told him I was going to fix my cholesterol without statins by not eating wheat, corn, or refined sugars and by eating crap tons of animal fat and vegetables. He said I was crazy.

Now after successfully doing just that... our relationship now pretty much consists of him authorizing my yearly blood test so I can see how my health indicators are and him cutting the occasional scary mole out (which he is in fact good at) because I once had a malignant melanoma.

Of course, now that I am healthy, I can get away with the occasional beer here, ice cream there bit.

Also don't just count a beer as 200 calories. Some have over 400. My dogfish 90 I just had was 300 calories. That was for 12 ounces not a pint. This whole thread and life just boils down to, most people are just lazy and uninformed when it comes to exercise and diet. It isn't hard. Almost everything works. You just have to stick to an effort level above sloth.

TheSlash said:

You just have to stick to an effort level above sloth.

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Hey man... be nice to sloths. I love the furry little bastards. And they actually try very hard. They just have very low metabolic rates (probably due to enzyme activity at low body temperatures).

Personal experience story. I quit drinking Mt Dew, started counting calories, and make better choices on food. I have cut back on red meat for chicken. Fried foods are practically gone from my plate. The sharp decrease was a sinus infection. The two sharp increases were beer festivals where I over ate and drank.

jeepinjeepin said:

Personal experience story. I quit drinking Mt Dew, started counting calories, and make better choices on food. I have cut back on red meat for chicken. Fried foods are practically gone from my plate. The sharp decrease was a sinus infection. The two sharp increases were beer festivals where I over ate and drank.

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Quit drinking mt dew?? Sorry, thats a fate worse then death if you ask me, I am quite addicted to the dew... But i limit myself to 1 softdrink a day.

TheSlash said:

It isn't hard. Almost everything works. You just have to stick to an effort level above sloth.

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Maybe it isn't hard for you, but the fact is almost nothing works because each person's biology and genetics are different. I do believe that there is a diet out there for everyone, but some people (such as myself) have yet to find that diet.

The thing I really don't get is, on paper I am in pretty good shape. I have good cholesterol levels, good blood pressure and a resting heart rate of approximately 50 bpm. But I'm about 50 lbs overweight if you follow traditional guidance. I believe that if your ticker is in good shape and you take care of your body by eating a nutritionally sound diet, weight shouldn't even be relevant. Some people just weren't built with the genetics for a skinny body.

jeepinjeepin said:

Personal experience story. I quit drinking Mt Dew, started counting calories, and make better choices on food. I have cut back on red meat for chicken. Fried foods are practically gone from my plate. The sharp decrease was a sinus infection. The two sharp increases were beer festivals where I over ate and drank.

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nukebrewer said:

The thing I really don't get is, on paper I am in pretty good shape. I have good cholesterol levels, good blood pressure and a resting heart rate of approximately 50 bpm. But I'm about 50 lbs overweight if you follow traditional guidance. I believe that if your ticker is in good shape and you take care of your body by eating a nutritionally sound diet, weight shouldn't even be relevant. Some people just weren't built with the genetics for a skinny body.

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Awesome progress, but don't give much credit to the BMI index number shown there. BMI only takes into account height and weight, no other variables such as bodyfat and fitness level. According to the BMI index most linebackers in the NFL are "obese".

sonofgrok said:

This is one of those topics where everyone is an expert but no one knows ****. Even my doctor tries to tell me what to eat and not to eat and he is a huge fat ass... but he is a doctor right? So he must know right? lol. I told him I was going to fix my cholesterol without statins by not eating wheat, corn, or refined sugars and by eating crap tons of animal fat and vegetables. He said I was crazy.

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This. Although not all doctors are created equal, if I want nutritional advice, I'll see a nutritionist. If I have a broken leg, I'll see a doctor.

progmac said:

Still hungry? Yes, tough. Maybe don't waste your calories on twinkies tomorrow. Restrict calories and you'll learn what to eat.

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But that doesn't work.

I'm NEVER hungry, not even very much at dinner time. Really. I eat plenty of food, and almost always feel terrific. Because of the food I eat, I am always satiated and never hungry. I eat FAR more than 1200 calories a day now, but way back when when I counted calories I did not.

The whole calorie in/calorie out nutritional advice has been debunked in the last few years by research and science. It's true that you won't get fat if you eat a low enough calorie diet, but it's not optimum for proper nutrition for humans.

xjmox14x said:

Awesome progress, but don't give much credit to the BMI index number shown there. BMI only takes into account height and weight, no other variables such as bodyfat and fitness level. According to the BMI index most linebackers in the NFL are "obese".

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Oh yeah, BMI is a joke. I think a "healthy" BMI would put me down in the 160-170s whereas I'm aiming for 180-195.

Yooper said:

Well, that's the thing- it IS fun! I eat so much you can't believe it, and my cholesterol is low, my fasting blood sugar is low, my weight is low, and my body is lean. I used to exercise, and I know I should, but I don't do much other than some hiking and kayaking.

I eat a ton of fish, chicken, lamb, pork, beef, and tons of vegetables. I love spicy food, and eat Thai food often. I eat grass fed beef, olive oil, coconut oil, venison, etc.

I drink more beer than most people, I'm sure, but don't seem to have any health effects. I don't miss pasta or carbs at all, but I did for the first month or so. I can run circles around people half my age, and am very strong for only being 135 pounds and 48 1/2 years old!

The thing for me is that I feel GREAT. I used to feel sluggish at times, or have headaches, or have aches and pains, or have gas. That is longer the case- I feel absolutely fabulous, with tons of energy to spare. I'm never tired. The other weird thing? I'm NEVER hungry. Never. High fat and high protein foods are satiating.

It's all about choices. I think the benefits to this lifestyle choice outweigh the "not fun" part of not eating junk food.

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I've actually done no carb, my wife likes to try several different diets and I try to support her, and honestly from what you listed above, we eat a lot alike, i just eat carbs as well, the irish in me would never let me give up potatoes forever haha.

Yooper said:

But that doesn't work.

The whole calorie in/calorie out nutritional advice has been debunked in the last few years by research and science. It's true that you won't get fat if you eat a low enough calorie diet, but it's not optimum for proper nutrition for humans.

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Yooper, comon now, you're very respected on this board, what is that junk?

What is there to debunk about the basic premise of "calories in/calories out".

Unless you can work out a way that humans can violate the laws of conservation of energy then there is no way that the simple statement that if you consume more usable energy than you use you will gain weight can be considered untrue.

All the claims about "low GI", "good/bad carbs" etc only refine our understanding of how the body utilises the usable energy from food consumed and how this can affect the perception of hunger. It does not change the basic truth of "calories in/calories out" in any way.

I've yet to see any real research supporting that. If you can provide, I'll eat my words. Sure there may be issues with thyroid, adrenals, liver, insulin, etc that can change the way your body handles this energy or has access to it.
But for the normal body, calorie restriction will always be the way to manage weight. (restriction in the sense of eating less than you burn.)

In fact here is a collection of studies from the past 50 years dealing with low carb/keto diets.

http://evilcyber.com/losing-weight/low-carb-keto-diet/

Even just a superficial reading of the table shows the clear absence of evidence supporting the low-carbohydrate diet for fat loss. It offers no observable advantage over diets higher in carbohydrate or any other macronutrient.

The idea that "all calories are equal, just eat less calories" seems logical but here's my issue with it. I am not a nutritionist, but I can attest from personal experience that a person can pretty much eat as much protein and vegetables as they want without gaining weight, and in fact possibly losing weight. So I'm with Yooper on this one. And you can do it while feeling full. If you eat 500 calories of chocolate, you will be hungry again very shortly. If you eat that same 500 calories as a dense protein and some vegetables you'll be full. So there are other dynamics at play and that's why "all calories are equal" is a little simplistic.

Years ago, I lost 35lbs and kept it off. It was an Atkins type thing. While I was doing it, I couldn't drink beer(!!). So being the resourceful guy I am, I drank vodka. I called it "the steak and martini diet". I was able to burn off fat while still drinking. So again, any idea that the calories from alcohol turns to fat is wrong in my personal experience.

and to the OP, my thinking is that the calories in beer are from two sources, one is the alcohol ("OK calories" if there is such a thing) and the other from unfermented sugars, etc. I wonder if a very dry beer would have less unfermented sugars and be lower these less desirable calories. So a very long mash, 2 hours or more, and lower temps, 147-148F, and a very attenuative yeast (Notty?) might be helpful. An interesting experiment to be sure!

xjmox14x said:

According to the BMI index most linebackers in the NFL are "obese".

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Most NFL linebackers ARE obese.

If you're a professional bodybuilder, then BMI doesn't really work for you, and you can ignore it.

Are you a professional bodybuilder? No? Then maybe you should put down the fork and go for a walk.

TheSlash said:

Yooper, comon now, you're very respected on this board, what is that junk?

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No need to be disrespectful just because you don't share the same point of view.

dbrewski said:

No need to be disrespectful just because you don't share the same point of view.

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Wasn't trying to come off as disrespectful, I was jokingly proding her for that comment. Guess my sarcasm wasn't shallow enough.

As in I look up to everything she has to say about wine and beer, so how could she do that to me

dbrewski said:

The idea that "all calories are equal, just eat less calories" seems logical but here's my issue with it. I am not a nutritionist, but I can attest from personal experience that a person can pretty much eat as much protein and vegetables as they want without gaining weight, and in fact possibly losing weight. So I'm with Yooper on this one. And you can do it while feeling full. If you eat 500 calories of chocolate, you will be hungry again very shortly. If you eat that same 500 calories as a dense protein and some vegetables you'll be full. So there are other dynamics at play and that's why "all calories are equal" is a little simplistic.

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So you realize you just said that its harder to eat 2000 calories in meat and veggie, but really easy in sugar? So it still comes down to calories in vs calories out. The only factory your taking out is the willpower to not eat over 2000 calories in chocolate. Sure you may be hungry, and it may be easier to ear steak and veg and feel full, but it is still all about the calories. Some people will feel hungry, some won't, but our body will treat the food the same.

Is the horse dead yet? I feel it's time to put away the hammer for me. I get too worked up in these kinds of threads because the people I train on a daily basis have such unreal thought processes on nutrition I get frustrated easily and have to take it out on people online instead of to my clients lol. This stuff really needs to be taught in school. I don't think I've had a single person yet that could accurately read and understand a food label!

TheSlash said:

So you realize you just said that its harder to eat 2000 calories in meat and veggie, but really easy in sugar? So it still comes down to calories in vs calories out. The only factory your taking out is the willpower to not eat over 2000 calories in chocolate. Sure you may be hungry, and it may be easier to ear steak and veg and feel full, but it is still all about the calories.

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I didn't say "all calories is equal" is false. I said it was a simplistic point of view, and that other dynamics play into people's ability to maintain or lose weight and have to be considered.

Anyway I'm pretty sure the OP has long wandered away from this thread in disgust. I hope he got a few thoughtful responses on his question.

Yoop is absolutely correct.

That is all.