Temp control software

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movet22

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So in the "show us your E-Rig" thread, I have noticed a few lucky brewers with what seems to be a program for temp control, ect.

The few questions I have are: is this a supplement to a full blown control panel? did you write the code for it yourself? if not, where did you get it? how much was it?

My lust for brewing knowledge is insatiable!

Thanks guys :mug:
 
Whats your background and amount of knowledge? There are many different ways to do this. It all depends on your amount of knowledge of certain items.

Really anything can work. Your temperature will be an analog input signal, and your controller will just be a standard on off output signal.

So an Arduino would be the one of the cheaper easier options. There are many brewing specific controllers like BCS, Brewtroller, and there are many more.

What are you familiar with programming wise?

Ill start with mine.

I'm using an Allen Bradley SLC 5/03 PLC. It is in a panel that is 100% stand alone, and will run without an HMI interface. I have the ability to plug my laptop in a run an HMI program that was written with Visual Basic using Advance HMI source code. This is just a more user friendly interface. It just shows conditions and allows controlling other than using the buttons and switches on my panels.

You will have to have a control panel no matter what your "HMI" interface is.

This was my first version of my program
HMI.jpg


This is the rack.
DSC00250.jpg


And this is programming the rack.
DSC00249.jpg
 
Well, my level of code writing is certainly higher than my knowledge of wiring up control boxes (Kal's is a beautiful, but I see the inside and poo a little). Continuing on that, I have built CPU's with extreme ease, and have dabbled in some coding for websites. In terms of programming, I would need to spend some time getting more familiar with everything, but Think I would be able to handle it.

In your pic, do you use a control panel AND the software?

Also, just so I completely understand: the second pic is your integration of the element controls, ect. into the kettles, and how that communicates with the cpu?

Thanks for the help!

EDIT: Upon further review, this seems like the same amount of wiring, maybe even a little more confusing. I'll have to really research this...
 
The PLC in the panel is where the logical code is programmed. Like I send 120V from my on push button to the plc, then the plc sees this as a bit, it looks for the bit to be on or off. The bit is turned on thus depending what I programmed from that condition it will output a signal, like 120V to a contactor coil. Once the plc is programmed it is 100% independent and I do not need a HMI. But the PLC has an RS232 port which will stream the real time conditions of the PLC and Force Bits On, then you write a simple program that will translate it into a graphical interface.


You asked if people do this to avoid having a control panel. Well there is no way NOT to have an control panel, whether you control with linux, use a plc, or use a standalone logical controller. You are just using a device (computer, plc, controller) to turn on contactors, cycle ssr's, light indicators, use buttons, and what not. You still have to have a way to control your high voltage side of your brewery. You still have to have a way to direct your 120/220/240/480 or whatever main power source to your devices (pumps, valves, elements).
 
EDIT: Upon further review, this seems like the same amount of wiring, maybe even a little more confusing. I'll have to really research this...

You are correct, the simplest option would be to search for diagrams. PJ has posted a lot that are very simple.

That's the thing, you can make it as simple or as difficult as you want.
 
I have gotten most of the PLC outputs to communicate with the program. I'm still working on sending the input signals through the com port on the rack. The Advance HMI source code is AB only compatible through the DF1 driver. Its a nice alternative to a panel view setup, and amazingly easy to setup and compile. The problem I'm having is I keep chaining my mind halfway though my build and changing stuff around.

Which is why I mainly do just stove top half batches to keep me motivated through the never ending build.

PLCtalk has a nice on going thread about Advance HMI. Also on Advance HMI's site, they have nice screen shots and info on how far you really can go with the program. http://sourceforge.net/projects/advancedhmi/
 
That PLC setup is awesome, but it's a little pricey.

I have built a custom system using an Arduino and my laptop. Basically it's just a small microcontroller that controls a couple of SSRs and reads some temperature sensors. It communicates over a serial connection to a custom program I wrote to control and monitor temperatures. If you can handle some simple electronics and coding it's shouldn't be too bad.

2011-10-09_18-37-39_218.jpg

brewcontroller.png


It's still definitely a work in progress. I seem to always be adding or changing something. I recently added the manual control so it doesn't have to be connected to my laptop to function. My next addition will be liquid level sensors and then auto fly sparging!
 
Ok, so please forgive me for moving slowly, this is a lot to absorb.

That being said, two questions: Can a laptop with the correct setup eliminate the need for a big traditional controler (ala Kal's)? And is there a wiring diagram set up that is out there now that incorporates one of these brewing softwares?

I'd love to be able to run my rig with an old acer netbook that is collecting dust.
 
It should not be too hard to work up a software package in Java using a IDE like netbeans. I have done that and incorporated recipe generation into the control programming for Opto 22 hardware which is just interface like the Lab Jack devices. Software I have was rebuilt in C# to get away from some native memory management problems in Java concerning graphics, and it is still an ongoing effort to improve speed and minimize cpu loading for lower powered platforms. The permanent data files I use are MySql data base tables that are utilized throughout the brewing application for everything from hardware and loop tuning to recipe ingredients.
 
Can a laptop with the correct setup eliminate the need for a big traditional controler

you need 3 things: the hardware (your kettles, heaters, burners, whatever), individual sensors and/or actuators (relays, contactors, switches, electronic valves, sensors...), and something to control those input/output devices so they all work together (computer software, hardware PLC, some type of controller that everything hooks into).

the big traditional controller and the laptop both serve the function of "something to control the input/output devices so they all work together", so yes you can interchange them. normally most people have the relays and sensors built into this device as well, so those will have to have their own separate enclosure if you want to use a laptop, but the idea is the same.
 
Ok, so please forgive me for moving slowly, this is a lot to absorb.

That being said, two questions: Can a laptop with the correct setup eliminate the need for a big traditional controler (ala Kal's)? And is there a wiring diagram set up that is out there now that incorporates one of these brewing softwares?

I'd love to be able to run my rig with an old acer netbook that is collecting dust.

No, it may not be as big. You laptop/controller is still controlling the SSR's, Contactors, Relays, and what not. There is no way around it.
 
How far have you gone with the HMI software package?

I was able tonight to get everything to work properly. I just had to manipulate the ladder logic in-favor of the hmi software. So pretty much every switch or button or input needs to have a comparable bit that the hmi can energize and manipulate the same way as the input device.

The output is pretty simple you just assign the plc address to the output in Visual Basic, and the Inputs you assign a bit to energize in Visual Basic.

ladderhmi.jpg


I'm having issues with the latest release of the code, but the previous version is running great, there are just less built in tools.
 
Ah, the joys of ladder logic and programming, hardware I use does not have any software support anymore so I had to create my own. The brewing software has evolved to the point that it can handle the entire brewing process from start to finish, build recipe, load grain and hops, connect fermenter, then touch auto run icon.
 
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