Re-pitching w/ trub from primary

Newbie technique question:

Would this be as simple as collecting the trub from primary of beer 1 (after racking) and pitching it w/ the wort of beer 2 that same day?

Or does the yeast need to be reactivated with a starter?

you don't even need to "collect" it!

If you are going to be brewing batch #2 on the same day that you rack batch #1 to the secondary, you can simply pour the cooled wort from batch #2 DIRECTLY into the carboy on top of the yeast cake left over from batch #1. You don't need to clean the carboy or anything.

watch out though. that's the equivalent of using a nuclear yeast bomb for that second batch. It will start fermenting FAST and HARD.

-walker

Walker said:

watch out though. that's the equivalent of using a nuclear yeast bomb for that second batch. It will start fermenting FAST and HARD.

-walker

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Thanks.

Hmm...sounds like a very efficient strategy. The pitching rate must be very high (hence the fast and hard fermentation). I'd think you could get the best of both worlds--scoop out half and save it, pitch on the other half?

cweston said:

I'd think you could get the best of both worlds--scoop out half and save it, pitch on the other half?

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You could probably do this. I just hate handling trub.

I actually stretch my yeast by making a very large starter, pitching half and saving half. When I want that yeast again, I'll make another starter with the leftovers, pitch half and save half again. I hope to get a few generations out of a smack pack this way.

I just recently started doing this, and haven't actually re-used any yeast from the fridge yet. I was supposed to re-use my 1056 from the fridge for Saturday's IPA brewing, but I forgot to make the starter Friday, so I ended up having to use dry 1056 bought the day of the brewing.

-walker

you could do what some english brewies do (youngs) which is take some of that groovy trub and dump it into your boiler, which would be an exceelent yeast nutrient. youve got tuns of yeast which you can spare.

no matter what you do ypu will have a kick-ass fermentation with an estimated lag time of -.001 nano seconds

I have found that pitching on the cake is the best way to do high gravity ales. Last time I did an IPA, I brewed an English Mild first. Once it was done fermenting, I moved it to the secondary. Then I made the IPA and put it in. Spent the next day cleaning the kitchen, including mopping the ceiling. Had to put the fermenter in the sink.

Did the same thing for my last barley wine, but managed to not blow the blowout.

I am going to be trying this next weekend..why waste? I am going to be brewing for the next couple weekends to get stocked up for St. Patrick's Day.

Do you guys just brew up a batch and cool it first, then rack one to the secondary, and the new one onto the yeast to prevent contamination? Also, I assume that since you are working with a full amount of trub, that aeration is not as important? Is this wrong? Do you still give ther fermenter a shake or use a stone or something to get the trub back mixed in?

foreword: I've never actually done this myself, but...

if I were going to do it, I think I would rack the 1st batch out of the primary while I was cooling the wort for the 2nd batch (as you said, to minimize contamination.) The carboy would only be empty for a few minutes, and I'd cover the mouth with foil during that time, just in case.

Aeration probably is NOT as important since you've got a massive yeast colony in there already, but someone who has done this might have some input.

As for getting the yeast mixed back in, I think the act of racking the 2nd batch into the carboy would mix it up well enough.

-walker

Walker said:

foreword: I've never actually done this myself, but...

if I were going to do it, I think I would rack the 1st batch out of the primary while I was cooling the wort for the 2nd batch (as you said, to minimize contamination.) The carboy would only be empty for a few minutes, and I'd cover the mouth with foil during that time, just in case.

Aeration probably is NOT as important since you've got a massive yeast colony in there already, but someone who has done this might have some input.

As for getting the yeast mixed back in, I think the act of racking the 2nd batch into the carboy would mix it up well enough.

-walker

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I just did this on Friday night Walker; you got it. While cooling the wort; rack to secondary the 1st batch. Put your airlock back in primary (re-sanitized). When the other batch is cooled; airate it in the kettle; then siphon it into the primary onto the cake. No need to jostle; stir. That my friends will be taken care of through the rather dramatic fermentation you're about to experience. Better have a 6.5g carboy or bucket though. Your going to need the space. I was 1" from having a blow-off in my 6.5 carboy at 64 degrees.

cweston said:

Thanks.

Hmm...sounds like a very efficient strategy. The pitching rate must be very high (hence the fast and hard fermentation). I'd think you could get the best of both worlds--scoop out half and save it, pitch on the other half?

Click to expand...

I probably wouldn't do this on off chance something gets in there. You can save yeast slurry; wash it etc. but I'd usually pick either or however; rack all onto the cake or go through a yeast harvest for next time you brew. You could save yeast after this next batch is complete; your going to have twice as much. There has been a lot of discussions on saving yeast on the board. Do some surfing here to learn about it.

Hey Walker,

You said you make a very large starter. How large is it? The idea of splitting a yeast pack and propagating it sounds interesting to me. Not to mention saving $$$.
I drained the yeast and trub from my last batch into a sanitized 1/2 gallon growler. I'm going to pitch it into my next brew in a couple weeks. I've got it in my fridge with an air lock installed. From my understanding, all I need to do is bring the slurry up to room temp before I pitch it.

Procedural Question regarding this process: Is there an order in which you should reuse for different types of beers? Example=> Is it ok to rack an IPA onto the cake from a stout? should you go light to dark? Does it matter? I can't really think that it does, but I figured that I would ask.

thx

I've seen it suggested that you go from lighter ales to darker ales in progression. The trub is going to impart some flavors and colors into the next batches, so bolder and darker as time goes on is the general rule.

But... rules were meant to be broken.

-walker

Walker said:

But... rules were meant to be broken.

-walker

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copy that. We'll see how it goes.

Yea, I've read that and have followed go lighter to darker in the past but my last batch was porter 1st, then IPA onto the cake. I usually have little beer left after a rack (I tilt the carboy) and it didn't seem to affect the color at all. I don't think it really matters that much personally...

I usually am racking 3-4 days after a rack onto the cake as it finishes so quickly and also to get it off all of that trub.

I use the previous yeast cake quite often. The general 'rule' is to progress from light & mild to darker & bolder and I normally try to follow that. But I have changed plans at the last minute and instead of doing, say, a second stout, did a red atop the previous stout yeast cake instead! I couldn't tell a real difference - like "Wow, I can taste the previous flavors coming through!'

I've also let my yeast cake sit in the emptied primary for as long as two weeks with an airlock on it before using it and had no problems. Maybe I've just been lucky.

And, as stated previously, be ready with that blow-off tube! This method really rocks!

And rocks hard! Blow-off tube is a must. Even with my 1" tubing, I've had the tub nearly clog from a yeast cake going nuclear; and that was after the cake sat in an empty primary for a week

OK--suppose no blow-off tube. I know this could be a major issure in a carboy (pressure build-up, possible explosion). What about a 6.5 gallon plastic bucket?

Seems like the worst-case would be blowing the lid off? Or is it just a bad idea to try this with anything other than a blow-off tube?

no blow-off = bad idea

i doubt your carboy would explode, but the rubber stopper might pop off and a jet of crap would spew out.

Same thing with the bucket, but the whole lid could go flying off.

-walker

Walker said:

no blow-off = bad idea

i doubt your carboy would explode, but the rubber stopper might pop off and a jet of crap would spew out.

Same thing with the bucket, but the whole lid could go flying off.

-walker

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Send some pictures when it blows

ALWAYS USE A BLOW-OFF TUBE WHEN PITHING ON TOP OF A YEAST CAKE!!!!!!!!


I thought because I use plastic buckets for my primaries I would be OK with just an airlock. I was wrong. Last night I awoke to a loud pop -- the lid actually blew off my 5 gal bucket and krausen spewed out onto my carpet! I had to install a blow-off quick.

10 lb IPA onto a yeast cake + yeast energizer = holy ****!!!

I am not exaggerating -- save yourself the cleanup and install a blow-off!

Plastic top blew off my bucket for me as well. Sounded like a shotgun and put a dent in my ceiling. No pictures though, had to scramble before SWMBO saw the friggen mess. This is what it looked like after I put the cover back on. Wouldn't stop for 6 more hours so I just said screw it; nothings getting in there. I just kept wiping it off with sanitzed paper towels.

Another reason I like a carboy as I can see when she's about to explode.

I understand completely that no blow-off = bad idea, but what should one with buckets do. The 6.5 gal buckes that come with a kit have a lot of head room, but a blow-off would have to fit into the little hole for the airlock, it seems like this could clog with trub/hop residue very easily and then the same problem would arise. Any ideas?

clayof2day said:

I understand completely that no blow-off = bad idea, but what should one with buckets do. The 6.5 gal buckes that come with a kit have a lot of head room, but a blow-off would have to fit into the little hole for the airlock, it seems like this could clog with trub/hop residue very easily and then the same problem would arise. Any ideas?

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I rigged this (when I was newb) but never got to see if it would work. I cut the bottom of the airlock to allow a larger space and a racking cane happens to fit into the airlock inner tube. Others probably have a better idea and should chime in.

seems like a good idea, but... do you even need the racking cane? won't a piece of hosing fit over/into the inner part of the airlock by itself?

-walker

Walker said:

seems like a good idea, but... do you even need the racking cane? won't a piece of hosing fit over/into the inner part of the airlock by itself?

-walker

Click to expand...

Not with the hose I had; the diameter in the lock was too big. But... check out an airlock at the HBS or take one to Home D and see if there is a diameter of hose that would fit nicely. I was in a bind and thought this concotion up in case I had another blowup; then switched to carboys.

I repitched in a carboy, ( 6.5 gal), last night, and this morning I smelled ber. Normally I love the smell of beer in the morning, but this one had me worried. I had two secondaries, and this primary in the closet. The promary had blown the stopper and airlock out of the carboy, and spewed wort all over one of the closet doors (wlakin closet in spare bedroom), and all over various coats etc... I quickly searched for the airlock, and found that it had cracked from the explosion. I quickly grabbed another airlock, sanitized it and pushed it in the carboy. I then did the smart thing and placed the carboy in the basement on the concrete floor. ( It is bubbling away right now.) I then shampood the carpet in the closet, and outside of the closet I am not sure if the wife knows what happened yet. Moral of the story?????? I will be using a blow off tube in the future. Jeff

I usually try to rack onto my yeast cakes and never rack more than 3 times onto one cake. I've also learned that by racking onto the secondary cake is much cleaner and will leave less trube behind. Less trub means more beer to rack and less lost in the trub. Just my 2 cents.

Wild

Any one else rack onto the secondary yeast cake? I'd guess it's cleaner maybe but hwat's the yeasty beasty activity like and is there a cut off time where it'd be effective?

Well today I did the yeast cake thing for the first time.

Normally it takes 24 hours or there abouts for the swirling thing to start. Today 45 minutes. When I was raking from primary to secondary I put the raking tube into the trub and syphoned 500ml (1 pint) of trub. I will refrigerate this and use it to make a starter for my next batch. I then lifted the rack tube and moved the wort to secondary. I dumped the new brew onto the remaining trub.

On my last brew, I sanitized a 2qt pitcher, poured half the trub into my sanitized bucket and added about 2 qts of fresh water. I then swirled it around, let it settle and after about 10 minutes, carefully poured the top (mostly trub-free) yeast slurry into the 2qt pitcher. This, I swirled again and let sit for 10 minutes. Then I poured this into my clean, sanitized carboy. I racked my aerated wort just brewed onto this once it was cooled. It is a lager. i moved it to the garage. It has been at 52F for 4 days and going like crazy. Luckily, I am using a blowoff tube because it was foaming through the tube through the first night.

As long as there is no oxygen getting to it and you are good about sanitization, I don't see a problem. Anyone else?

Walker-san said:

you don't even need to "collect" it!

If you are going to be brewing batch #2 on the same day that you rack batch #1 to the secondary, you can simply pour the cooled wort from batch #2 DIRECTLY into the carboy on top of the yeast cake left over from batch #1. You don't need to clean the carboy or anything.

watch out though. that's the equivalent of using a nuclear yeast bomb for that second batch. It will start fermenting FAST and HARD.

-walker

Click to expand...

How long could you leave the trub in the primary before pitching the second batch without concerns about off-flavors? Four hours?

I know that you "should" dump the new wort onto the trub. I didn't do it that way the other day when I needed some yeast. I transferred a batch to the secondary, and had a new batch already in a 6 gal. primary from two days before. I had used some old yeast and it just wasn't taking off. I poured most of the trub from the bottom into my 6 gal. and fermentation took off within 12 hours.

Torchiest said:

How long could you leave the trub in the primary before pitching the second batch without concerns about off-flavors? Four hours?

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Shouldn't be a problem if you keep it covered.

Nothing to add--it's just kindof funny to see a thread that I started almost a year ago pop up again.

Shows the search works.

orfy said:

Shows the search works.

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Lol. Topics that should be searched:

Fruit addition to beer
Is Aluminum ok?
I see mold

I am sure there are others that I have seen scores of times since I have been visiting the boards. lol.

ok...back to the program.....

This is a good thread btw. I have yet to try this. It is just a matter of timing it so I can pitch onto the sucker. Maybe I'll brew Friday night. God I love brewing!

So what's the record time for going from OG to FG reusing a yeast cake? I have 10 gallons of APA in primary right now that I need for a party, but after that, I will go back to doing 5gl batches. What if I pour a fresh 5gl batch of wort onto that yeast cake of the 10 gallon batch? Will I get a beer geyser? I'm tempted!

Could someone give this newbie a good explanation of what a yeast cake is? Is it just the trub on the bottom of the primary fermenter? Why is it called a cake? Inquiring (Noob) minds want to know!!

BTW I found this thread using the search.