What sets Belgian style beers apart from every other style?
- Thread starter Butcher
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Edcculus
Well-Known Member
one word - yeast
+1. And I don't like them either. Although I have tried some of the more dry (very very dry) Belgians (and also with a large absence of unfermentable sugars) that weren't so damn sweet. And they were incredible.
Mermaid
Well-Known Member
I think it's one of those "to each, his own" things. Kind of like how some guys like blondes, other guys prefer redheads, and then there's those guys who love the sultry exotic brunettes.
I love most Belgian styles, but I'm not a big fan of brettanomyces or any of the Belgian styles aged in or with oak. (Like Goose Island's "Sofie" - when I tasted some "on tap" recently it was even more "eh" than the bottled version - to me it smelled like pencil shavings)
So maybe it's some funk in the yeast you're picking up on, the yeasts that produce the bubblegum / banana esters can be really overpowering if you're used to dry / bitter brews.
Could be the sweetness too, I have had some dubbels that have been almost syrupy and not easy to drink.
Could be the carbonation. Some of the Belgian styles are highly carbed (Unibroue always seems to be crazy carbonated - and while I love this about them I've had friends who can't finish one because it disagrees with their tastebuds).
I love most Belgian styles, but I'm not a big fan of brettanomyces or any of the Belgian styles aged in or with oak. (Like Goose Island's "Sofie" - when I tasted some "on tap" recently it was even more "eh" than the bottled version - to me it smelled like pencil shavings)
So maybe it's some funk in the yeast you're picking up on, the yeasts that produce the bubblegum / banana esters can be really overpowering if you're used to dry / bitter brews.
Could be the sweetness too, I have had some dubbels that have been almost syrupy and not easy to drink.
Could be the carbonation. Some of the Belgian styles are highly carbed (Unibroue always seems to be crazy carbonated - and while I love this about them I've had friends who can't finish one because it disagrees with their tastebuds).
ColonelForbin
Well-Known Member
yeast plus high fermentation temps = very estery beer. i like them though just not as big a fan of the dubble tripple quad blonde as i use to be. more into funky saisons and sours.
avidhomebrewer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
- Messages
- 2,553
- Reaction score
- 28
I agree, yeast is the culprit. I love Belgian brews, so you will get a biased answer here. I ferment mine a bit lower than others though, around 65. If you somewhat like the flavor at a higher temp, try fermenting at a lower temp and see what you get.
+1 to ColonelForbin; I also like the sours and saisons - very tasty.
+1 to ColonelForbin; I also like the sours and saisons - very tasty.
Beerbeque
Well-Known Member
I always thought it was the aromatics used that gave Belgian Ales their unique qualities ie: fruits, herbs and spices. I think you could use Belgian yeast in any number of American styles and they are not gonna taste like a Belgian
I'm an equal opportunity enjoyer of our favorite fermented beverage. I really enjoy Belgians, Belgian styled beer, and most other styles. It must be stated there is a HUGE range of variance in Belgian beers from the modest De Koninck Pale Ale/witbiers to way out sours and huge spicy brews. With all that variance I'm sure there are some you like or would like.
Generally most Belgians aren't hopped at a high rate. To create balance in the bier Belgian brewers traditionally dried out the brews to keep them from being too sweet and maintain some drinkability. An example would be a 1.080 biers with 20 ibus bittering. A great many Belgian Style brews made in the US while good suffer from not being dried out enough. Brother Thelonious is a prime example of this issue. While I love the spice and character of the brew, I can't imagine finishing off a large bottle of it without sharing it with friends as it's just laborious to drink yet still good.
Schlante,
Phillip
Generally most Belgians aren't hopped at a high rate. To create balance in the bier Belgian brewers traditionally dried out the brews to keep them from being too sweet and maintain some drinkability. An example would be a 1.080 biers with 20 ibus bittering. A great many Belgian Style brews made in the US while good suffer from not being dried out enough. Brother Thelonious is a prime example of this issue. While I love the spice and character of the brew, I can't imagine finishing off a large bottle of it without sharing it with friends as it's just laborious to drink yet still good.
Schlante,
Phillip
l1ranger
Well-Known Member
i've got to go with the yeast as well.
I've had a few american style IPAs brewed with belgian yeast that you can tell are belgians. I don't care for the sours most of the time, but some times it hits the spot.
keep trying though, its the best part.
I've had a few american style IPAs brewed with belgian yeast that you can tell are belgians. I don't care for the sours most of the time, but some times it hits the spot.
keep trying though, its the best part.
Tall_Yotie
Well-Known Member
The yeast indeed. I have to say though, after my trip a month ago (2 weeks, 6 countries, and 5 gallons of beer consumed between my wife and I) that I now am in love with the Belgian beers, and it is a flavor profile I have not experienced before. But I can understand why someone else wouldn't like it. I am not a stout fan (I can't stand Guinness), but that is just me.
Edcculus
Well-Known Member
The only Belgian beer brewed with spices is Witbier. Saisons sometimes have something added, but if done right, you can get there with just the yeast. Dubbels, Tripels, BPA, Golden Strong and Strong Dark are not traditionally spiced, although yeast character may give the impression of different spices/fruits.
If you think about it, yeast is really what sets apart most country styles. Hops and malt bill play a big part too, but yeast is very important. British ale yeasts tend to be more fruity/estery than American yeasts, which tend to be much cleaner and more attenuative. Belgian yeasts have all kinds of phenolics going on (what the OP hates about Belgians). One good example is American Wheat vs Weissbier. Take the same malt bill and hop schedule, ferment them with a Weissbeir yeast and an American Wheat yeast. You will end up with 2 totally different beers.
WolvinMaine
Well-Known Member
The Belgians have a very different take on fermentation. It is all about the yeast (and other beasties), as stated above. However, I find it hard to lump all belgians together. Even amongst the Trappist breweries making similar styles, the beers are so different. Chimay tastes nothing like Westmalle, and most of that is the yeast strains used. Then you get into something totally different, such as the funk of brett, starting with something very mild like Orval, and moving onto serious funkiness you find in the lambics and the other sour beers. Then you have something like Saison Dupont, which is again an entirely different animal. The key thread in all of these are the remarkably varied yeast cultures and fermentation processes employed.
As already mentioned - the yeast.
One comment on 'lumping them together'. I tasted a Belgian Pilsner a couple of weeks ago, and it was a wonderful light lager. According to the brewer, it is what the monks prefer to keep for themselves, and I can see why. Nothing at all like what everybody would imagine if they were told it was a Belgian beer.
Plus 1 to Ed on the Saison. We did a group brew this summer, and 40 some gallons of wort went 8 separate ways. Some people preferred to add spices; I went traditional with only Styrian Goldings, and it has lots of beautiful complex fruity and spicy notes. It's the yeast. WPL566, I believe is what was used.
One comment on 'lumping them together'. I tasted a Belgian Pilsner a couple of weeks ago, and it was a wonderful light lager. According to the brewer, it is what the monks prefer to keep for themselves, and I can see why. Nothing at all like what everybody would imagine if they were told it was a Belgian beer.
Plus 1 to Ed on the Saison. We did a group brew this summer, and 40 some gallons of wort went 8 separate ways. Some people preferred to add spices; I went traditional with only Styrian Goldings, and it has lots of beautiful complex fruity and spicy notes. It's the yeast. WPL566, I believe is what was used.
I really enjoy the belgiums and have so far been brewing mostly those and stouts. For me I still have not got the taste buds for hoppy beers. I would like to branch out, but since I keg, it would even be hard to gift out 5 gallons of beer that i just wouldnt like after i brewed it. What would be a good beer to buy a few samples of that have good hop flavor without being overpowering?
Mike in Duluth
Mike in Duluth
Duluth GA or Duluth MN? I'm in the South. It would be cool to find another brew buddy close by.
Duluth, MN..
BogusOwnz
Well-Known Member
I like a few Belgium darks or dark strong but in general they aren't my cup of tea. Stinks too cause it seems like the majority of my home brew club are all in a Belgium phase.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
IMO, Belgium is where beer was truly perfected. Yum!
rugman
Well-Known Member
much of what has already been said
Also,
-most use noble hop varieties with lower IBU than american beers
-bottle conditioning to higher carbonation levels
-use of inverted sugars and often higher alcohol content
Also,
-most use noble hop varieties with lower IBU than american beers
-bottle conditioning to higher carbonation levels
-use of inverted sugars and often higher alcohol content
steelebrew
Active Member
yeast does play a large factor, as does the use of unmalted grain and sugars. But many Belgian beers have bacteria in them as well.
jdm61
Well-Known Member
Some people are convinced that Rochefort has coriander in the mash bill and supposedly, that particular group of monks and their secular employees are a bit more forthcoming about telling you about the ingredients, but perhaps not the proportions.
jdm61
Well-Known Member
Bottom line is that the Belgian beers are so dissimilar, I would think that about the big thing you can say that makes them different from say most of the German beers are the adjuncts. With that said, remember that the biggests sellers by far in Belgium are mass production pale lagers like Stella and Jupiler followed by the "generic" versions of some of the traditional styles like Leffe and Hooegarden. Above that, the most popular "premium" brew that I saw was probably Duvel, at least in Brussels and Wallonia. Stella is the best selling Belgian beer in the world, but last time that I heard, Jupiler was the best selling in Brussels and perhaps in the country.
Yeah I see it as American beers are much more hop-centric, European beers are more malt-centric, and Belgians are more yeast-centric.
Up until recently, the yeast has easily been the most interesting ingredient IMO in terms of how it can influence a beer. That's why there so many amazing Belgians that have been around for over a century that American brewers still can't even come close to. Belgian breweries understand their yeast and how to handle it. I'm still and trying to dial in how to get that amazing character with those Trappist Belgian Strains. The way you use a Belgian yeast is far different than any other strains from other regions. I fermented my last Siason at body temperatures. If I did that with any American strain I'd get phenolic liquid band-aids
But hops have been going nuts recently with rumors of even chocolate-coconut ones coming out. Add to that new hopping techniques like hopbursting, and hopbacks, now American IPAs are quickly becoming the new frontier for those seeking something unique.
Up until recently, the yeast has easily been the most interesting ingredient IMO in terms of how it can influence a beer. That's why there so many amazing Belgians that have been around for over a century that American brewers still can't even come close to. Belgian breweries understand their yeast and how to handle it. I'm still and trying to dial in how to get that amazing character with those Trappist Belgian Strains. The way you use a Belgian yeast is far different than any other strains from other regions. I fermented my last Siason at body temperatures. If I did that with any American strain I'd get phenolic liquid band-aids
But hops have been going nuts recently with rumors of even chocolate-coconut ones coming out. Add to that new hopping techniques like hopbursting, and hopbacks, now American IPAs are quickly becoming the new frontier for those seeking something unique.
worlddivides
Well-Known Member
Belgian beers have been among my favorite beer styles and brands for over 10 years now. As many have said, what defines Belgian beers is mainly the yeast (OR bacteria!). Among the many Belgian beer styles that I love, my favorite would definitely be lambics (which can then be broken down into many different kinds of lambic styles).
What I've never understood, though, is the disgusting flavor profile descriptions that a lot of people use to describe Belgian yeasts. I've oftentimes thought that wine flavor descriptions are pure nonsense, but at least they sound tasty even when they're off the wall. Belgian yeast descriptions usually sound disgusting, even though the beers themselves taste amazing. I've heard some described as tasting like "wet horse hair" or "bandaids." I don't even want to know what wet horse hair would taste like, but I can say that the beers they describe that way do NOT taste like "wet horse hair." On the other hand, I DO know what bandaids taste like and I would never want to taste a beer that tasted like them. Luckily, I have never had a Belgian beer that tasted like bandaids, even though I've had beers that people DESCRIBED as tasting like bandaids. Crazy people, really.
It's almost like there are people who hate Belgian beers and pretend to like them so they can get away with calling the flavors like "wet horse hair" or "bandaids" because they really want to poke fun at the beers. Nuts, I'm tellin' ya.
What I've never understood, though, is the disgusting flavor profile descriptions that a lot of people use to describe Belgian yeasts. I've oftentimes thought that wine flavor descriptions are pure nonsense, but at least they sound tasty even when they're off the wall. Belgian yeast descriptions usually sound disgusting, even though the beers themselves taste amazing. I've heard some described as tasting like "wet horse hair" or "bandaids." I don't even want to know what wet horse hair would taste like, but I can say that the beers they describe that way do NOT taste like "wet horse hair." On the other hand, I DO know what bandaids taste like and I would never want to taste a beer that tasted like them. Luckily, I have never had a Belgian beer that tasted like bandaids, even though I've had beers that people DESCRIBED as tasting like bandaids. Crazy people, really.
It's almost like there are people who hate Belgian beers and pretend to like them so they can get away with calling the flavors like "wet horse hair" or "bandaids" because they really want to poke fun at the beers. Nuts, I'm tellin' ya.
As far as I know, the only wet-horse Belgians are the funkier Brett-spiked ones. I'm guessing the OP is referring to the more traditional trappist belgians and stuff like Duvel. People never use those words for those (excluding Orval of course)
I've had a band-aids beer. It was a saison using some harvested Dupont yeast. It was very early in my brewing and I way underpitched stressing the yeast too much. My temperature also fluctuated a lot due to weather and problems with my AC. First thing I thought when I opened the first bottle was smelling the inside of a medicine cabinet. It took about 6mo to go away
worlddivides
Well-Known Member
Yes, I've seen and heard Brettanomyces described as "wet horse hair." In large amounts, it's definitely a very raw and funky tasting yeast, but I personally don't get the "wet horse hair" sound. My favorite style, lambic, tends to have some Brett mixed in with wild yeasts and lactic bacteria, but I really don't get the "horse hair" or "sweaty" or "bandaid" descriptions. Not in lambics where it's weak or in saison styles that emphasize the Brett.
I suppose I can imagine a beer accidentally having a flavor like band aids, but not on purpose.
Trappist ales, I think, are beautiful for the way they bring out the strengths of a yeast's flavor over very mild noble hops and usually a rather uniform malt, oftentimes lightened with candi sugar (or similar). I suppose Belgian ales in general would be the last kind of beer you'd want if you don't like the flavor of yeast.
I suppose I can imagine a beer accidentally having a flavor like band aids, but not on purpose.
Trappist ales, I think, are beautiful for the way they bring out the strengths of a yeast's flavor over very mild noble hops and usually a rather uniform malt, oftentimes lightened with candi sugar (or similar). I suppose Belgian ales in general would be the last kind of beer you'd want if you don't like the flavor of yeast.
MaddBaggins
cervisiam vitae
It's the yeast and ferm temps that set them apart. Belgians are my favorite beers. A nice dry saison or a sweet malty quad and all points in between. Yay Beer!
ubnserved
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 596
- Reaction score
- 122
That is funny. ... I have made a Belgian for my Christmas light beer for the last 5 years mostly for the higher abv and the cold that comes around here on thanksgiving night. After serving them to everyone who has come over to see the Christmas lights over the last few years there are always neighbors and the occasional passers-by that stop by to find out more about the beer and to make sure that I am doing lights every year.
The beer that seemed to be the favorite was the Belgian tripel that I made 2 years ago, 2nd I think would be Belgian golden I made last year.
And definitely a yeast thing for the fruit and spice flavors. Belgians tend to be sweeter than other beer styles.
The beer that seemed to be the favorite was the Belgian tripel that I made 2 years ago, 2nd I think would be Belgian golden I made last year.
And definitely a yeast thing for the fruit and spice flavors. Belgians tend to be sweeter than other beer styles.
