First attempt with wine is moldy

I bought a kit from the local homebrew store to make wine. I followed the directions, even had the missus double check things. We let the wine stay in the primary fermentor for a week per the instructions and when we opened it up we had what looks to be mold floating around on top.



The mold was only on the top of the liquid and not suspended in it. The top layer of "wine" was definitely a different viscosity then the rest of the "wine".

Not what I was expecting to say the least. After some standing around scratching our heads we decided it was probably due to something not being as clean as it needed to be. What I don't know, we spent extra time making sure it was as good as could be.

We siphoned the wine into a newly cleaned glass carboy, topped it up and put it away to rest. It's been 3 days and I've noticed we have some very small "mold spores" starting to form on the top of the wine in the carboy. Which leads to my questions. What can I do, if anything, to save this? What could have caused this? Is this normal and I'm just overreacting?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

What kind of kit? What is the debris floating in the wine? Oak? It looks like pine needles.
What was your sanitization process?
Is this a kit with grapes/skins or just juice? (generally when you have skins/grapes in a kit they will float from co2 gassing off and the skins must be punched down multiple times per day to ensure the skins stay wet and are free of mold.
Lastly, what yeast was used? Doesn't look like very much of a ferment going on after a week... Active fermentation and the co2 blanket generated by it will usually do a good job of inhibiting mold growth.
Need to know more about your process and the starting ingredients/kit to provide good feedback.

There are oak bits floating in the wine, it was with the kit.

To sanitize everything I used 3 tablespoons metabisulphite dissolved in a gallon of water that I dipped/rinsed everything with. I did let somethings dry off for a little bit on a clean towel.

The only ingredients I added in this step were a half gallon of warm water into which I stirred a package of bentonite (per the instructions) and the actual liquid juice that came with the kit.

I did my best to follow the instructions to a tee, just so I could eliminate any user error, apparently I missed something.

Does it smell like it has been fermenting?

hansonian said:

There are oak bits floating in the wine, it was with the kit.

To sanitize everything I used 3 tablespoons metabisulphite dissolved in a gallon of water that I dipped/rinsed everything with. I did let somethings dry off for a little bit on a clean towel.

The only ingredients I added in this step were a half gallon of warm water into which I stirred a package of bentonite (per the instructions) and the actual liquid juice that came with the kit.

I did my best to follow the instructions to a tee, just so I could eliminate any user error, apparently I missed something.

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So you added bentonite and water but no yeast?

Can you tell us the kit specifically? Was this a bucket of fresh juice?

rawlus said:

So you added bentonite and water but no yeast?

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That is correct. The instructions say to add the yeast after it's been in the secondary fermentor for 10 days.

The kit was from winexpert.com/products/premium/selection-original-series, it was one of their cabernet sauvignon styles. It's basically a box that includes a bag of juice and some packets of ingredients.

What would fermenting spell like? I currently have it in a 6 gallon glass carboy with a airlock on the top. Over the course of 3 days the airlock looks like it's built up pressure and released it, so I'm assuming some fermenting is going on unless something else causes gases to build up.

I really appreciate all the insight on this.

Re-read the instructions. The day 10 addition is probably k-meta, not yeast. The wineexpert kits usually come with EC-1118 yeast intended to be added at the time of reconstituting the juice with the appropriate amount of water. Ec-1118 is a pretty reliable fermenter usually kicking off pretty vigorously within 48 hours.

I am not sure this kit is salvagable at this point, I fear the unprotected juice has spoiled and oxidized to a degree that even if you could ferment it the end results not not be ideal.

hansonian said:

That is correct. The instructions say to add the yeast after it's been in the secondary fermentor for 10 days.

The kit was from winexpert.com/products/premium/selection-original-series, it was one of their cabernet sauvignon styles. It's basically a box that includes a bag of juice and some packets of ingredients.

What would fermenting spell like? I currently have it in a 6 gallon glass carboy with a airlock on the top. Over the course of 3 days the airlock looks like it's built up pressure and released it, so I'm assuming some fermenting is going on unless something else causes gases to build up.

I really appreciate all the insight on this.

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Winexpert has you add the yeast the same day you mix up the ingredients. I think you totally misunderstood the instructions here.

Right now, I'd add 10 crushed campden tablets, dissolved in some water and see if that kills the mold. If it does, we'll have you repitch the yeast.

I'm re-reading the instructions and it clearly states that the yeast is added after the primary fermentation and the secondary fermentation is complete.

Now to be honest, I did just notice that it says to insert the airlock after the yeast is added, I currently have it in before the yeast. Would this cause a issue?

With the exception of putting the airlock on ahead of time I don't see anything in the instructions that I haven't followed.

t

hansonian said:

I'm re-reading the instructions and it clearly states that the yeast is added after the primary fermentation and the secondary fermentation is complete.

Now to be honest, I did just notice that it says to insert the airlock after the yeast is added, I currently have it in before the yeast. Would this cause a issue?

With the exception of putting the airlock on ahead of time I don't see anything in the instructions that I haven't followed.

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I'd suggest contacting winexpert right away via email. They guarantee their kits, and if the instructions are lacking, they will replace their kits. Adding yeast 10 days into primary is an issue, and of course there will be no "primary fermentation" without yeast. They are great to deal with- email them right away! Those kits are expensive.

Oh, I almost forgot! Those kits tell you to rack at SG 1.000 or so, and to take the SG when pitching the yeast. Did you do any SG readings? Winexpert will want to know.

Also, it's too late now, but all of their instructions are on their website: http://www.winexpert.com/kit-instructions All of them state to add the yeast in primary, after mixing up the must, so you must have a bad instructions sheet.

Here's a quick scan of the instructions with the part high-lighted where it says to add the instructions.



If I've missed something please point it out to me. I can take criticism so you won't hurt my feelings.

As of now I plan to head to the home brew store tomorrow and pick up some campden tablets to try and salvage this.

I thought it was odd that the yeast wasn't added until basically 2 weeks into the process but since this is my first go round I thought maybe I had it mixed up.

Again, I appreciate all the info you guys are offering up.

Step #7 http://www.winexpert.com/images/Orig_Intl_Inst_Sept2011_Eng.pdf

After looking at the scan I just uploaded I realize I'm misread this. Instead of following all of step one and then moving to step two, I now see that the highlighted area is still under step one instructions. I can't believe I missed that.

If I add the campden tablets tomorrow that the yeast can I still salvage this or should I start over?

Bad setup on the instructions.

Yeah. It's a formatting issue. The second stage is misleading with step 7 & 8 from the first stage in the same page "tile"

Rather than salvage the wine, call winexpert and plead your case, they may make good on it and get you another kit to start over, which will produce far better results than salvaging what you presently have.

So is the general consensus to dump this wine and start over? I'd like to try and salvage this for no other reason than to learn how. If this is a lost cause I'd like to know though.

I'll shoot winexpert a email in the morning and see what they say about all this.

If any of you guys are in Tampa I'd be more than happy to buy you a drink for helping me on this.

hansonian said:

So is the general consensus to dump this wine and start over? I'd like to try and salvage this for no other reason than to learn how. If this is a lost cause I'd like to know though.

I'll shoot winexpert a email in the morning and see what they say about all this.

If any of you guys are in Tampa I'd be more than happy to buy you a drink for helping me on this.

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I wouldn't dump it yet. But the problem is that the yeast needs to be pitched in primary, or else you can get some mold. Winexpert will replace this kit, if their instructions are lacking (you may need to copy them) and I've already suggest dissolving 10 crushed campden tablets in it, and stirring it up. And then repitching yeast in a few days. It might be fixable, but without yeast pitched right away other contaminants took hold.

Yooper said:

I wouldn't dump it yet. But the problem is that the yeast needs to be pitched in primary, or else you can get some mold. Winexpert will replace this kit, if their instructions are lacking (you may need to copy them) and I've already suggest dissolving 10 crushed campden tablets in it, and stirring it up. And then repitching yeast in a few days. It might be fixable, but without yeast pitched right away other contaminants took hold.

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I'll dump some campden tablets tomorrow. Should I wait 24 hours or longer to pitch the yeast?

hansonian said:

I'll dump some campden tablets tomorrow. Should I wait 24 hours or longer to pitch the yeast?

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Yes, at least 24 hours. Then make sure you rack or top up or whatever it takes to have "mold less" must. Then 24 hours later, pitch some fresh yeast. It's cheap- about 79 cents- s0 if it doesn't work you aren't put much.

Plead your case to wineexpert, with the confusing instructions, and they should make it right. These kits aren't cheap!

Wow, the way the instructions are written IS misleading, with #7 under step 2...

Pretty much as Yooper said, write to the company and they might give you a new kit, and hopefully reformat their instructions for future users. And I also wouldn't dump the kit, but transfer back to your sanitized primary, put in the camden tablets, wait for at least 24 hours, then add the yeast. Well some great discoveries were made in similar ways...

... and if you don't have campden tablets, as far as I know you could use K-META (potassium metabisulfite) if you have some, probably around 2 teaspoons...

I've made a kit from them last month. Knowing that I had to add the yeast to the primary on the first day. I found my self puzzled, and ended up reading the instructions like 5 times before I caught it. Bottom line is the instructions are confusing for day one. The rest of the steps are good.

Update

I transferred the wine into a sanitized primary, dissolved some campden tablets into it and shot off a thorough email to winexpert. I checked the sg of the wine before I added the campden and it was at 1.090, which seems to be inline with what their instructions have.

The bucket I have for the primary fermentor is a 7 gallon bucket and the kit is for 6 gallons, should I top the bucket off with water or just leave the air space in there?

Definitely don't top up the bucket. Also your cover shouldn't be airtight so that the CO2 produced during fermentation can escape.

The cover has a hole in it for a airlock, I've left that open for now.

Oh, keep the airlock on. Carbon dioxide will bubble out of it easily but bugs and things won't be able to get into your wine.

And if you don't have an airlock, put some paper towel or something clean and breathable over the hole. You don't want anything to get in.

Good luck!

Dicky

I'm pretty new to the entire homebrew scene, and I'm curious; is there a specific reason why wine and champagne are bottled with corks? Could I bottle them in 12 oz glass bottles with crown caps? I've only done a couple of batches of cider so far, but I'm interested in making wine as well.

Mr_Shinkai said:

I'm pretty new to the entire homebrew scene, and I'm curious; is there a specific reason why wine and champagne are bottled with corks? Could I bottle them in 12 oz glass bottles with crown caps? I've only done a couple of batches of cider so far, but I'm interested in making wine as well.

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Tradition.

Crown caps are fine, as long as you use bottles designed for use with them.

Thank you! I was afraid it was some type of safety issue. I'm thinking about doing some single-serve bottles for my wedding; I'd hate kill a few folks on the big night.

Those instructions are ****!designed to be misleading so you have to buy a hole new batch of must!!

Mr_Shinkai said:

Thank you! I was afraid it was some type of safety issue. I'm thinking about doing some single-serve bottles for my wedding; I'd hate kill a few folks on the big night.

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Haha, 330mL bottles of 14% liquor might kill your granny...

I did receive a email from Winexpert and they said they'd get me another kit. I'm going to try and salvage this one and see how it comes out. If you look at the PDF directions they have on their site they've been changed from the format I received. I don't think I was the first one to bring this to their attention.

Worse case scenario is the current batch goes down the drain and I start over, best case I get two batches made. I like to think of this as a good learning experience and in the future will make sure I go over any directions a bit more thoroughly.

I appreciate everyone's help and knowledge on this and I'll let you know how it all turns out in the end.

Wow, that was mighty generous of them. Must've been a pretty damn good email.

Pith said:

...
Crown caps are fine, as long as you use bottles designed for use with them.

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An additional note, Make sure you are using Champagne bottles if you are going to carbonate to Champagne levels. Most US champagne bottles will accept 26 mm crown caps (US standard Beer bottle crown caps) although the some use the larger 29 mm crown caps.

WhtHawk said:

An additional note, Make sure you are using Champagne bottles if you are going to carbonate to Champagne levels. Most US champagne bottles will accept 26 mm crown caps (US standard Beer bottle crown caps) although the some use the larger 29 mm crown caps.

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Good to know! Thanks!

Mr_Shinkai said:

Good to know! Thanks!

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Or beer/cider bottles. Anything that can hold pressure basically.

Dicky